UK Security, MORs and CHIRP

[Human Factor]

I've just read the Autumn edition of CHIRP and a large portion of it is devoted to concerns regarding security procedures in the UK. Specifically, how the continual harassment of pilots is detrimental to flight safety, particularly with regard to distraction management.

The concern of the CHIRP board appears to be that the Permanent Secretary to the Department for Transport is "not persuaded that the problems reported through this Programme [CHIRP] translated into a real flight safety risk."

To paraphrase CHIRP, the MOR scheme is not reserved for incidents of a mainly technical nature. Any incidents involving security checks that individuals feel have a consequent effect on flight safety can and should be reported to the CAA using the MOR scheme. The scheme includes the facility to report confidentially directly to the Authority (CAP382 refers).

Please ASR/MOR ALL security related issues which have a potential effect on flight safety and forward them to BALPA where possible. There are only two ways which will ensure a sensible and appropriate level of security is applied to pilots - a paper trail and delays.

[Human Factor]

Danny,

Any chance this could be made a "Sticky" on R&N.

[A and C]

DfT and CAA head in the sand attitude!

Regreatbly I have had to file a number of reports on the secutity issue, the worst involved a BAA airport and the security management took 4 mounths to reply!

Having considered these security "events" of a "human factor" nature CHIRP seemed to be the correct place to make that report, I was under the mis-plased impresion that the DfT and CAA would read and take note of the reports in CHIRP....................... It would seem that this is not the case and this if the latest editorial in CHIRP is correct (and I have no reason to doubt that).

So I am pondering my next move , do I go back into my records and MOR all the past "events" just to get them on record or do File an MOR stating that the DfT and the CAA are not doing the job that they should be by not reading and taking into account the reports in CHIRP?

Answers on a postcard please!

[Rainboe]

There is the uncomfortable question to answer: if you were so adversely affected by your experiences in UK security that you need to make a MOR, was it therefore justifiable to operate the schedule, or should you have delayed?

I see now MAN security have unilaterally decided to make life harder by restricting to one crew bag only through security? Or certainly no hold baggage through the Xray machine. Security has become an empire unto itself, put in place to make aviation harder for the employees.

[Sudden Stop]

^^^

Restrictions on the number of items has absolutely nothing to do with improving security, does it? Surely searching two small bags is easier than one large packed to the brim - rediculous.

Perhaps people are guilty of trying too hard to keep schedual despite the increased difficulties getting through security...

If security is slowing you down, take a deep breath, accept it and allow slots to be missed.

[A and C]

On one occasion I delayed the aircraft and went for a coffee to cool off, this was a direct result of the mistake that I made if flying directly after a very big problem with security at another airport.

I reported both inccidents to the company and one CHIRP but security seem immune from any critical comment however in this politicly correct world I am going to take a new tack and use the discrimination laws to defend myself, it is clear that pilots are the best "sport" for the power drunk low life (about 10% of the security operatives) and Captains are the best of all to provoke, no doubt this makes the best banter in the canteen. So next time I will hit them with the discrimination card either on the captain grounds or as I have a lot of metalwork inside my leg discrimination of the disabled.

When they get a bit sharp wih you it is also worth pointing to the notices about abuse of staff and asking them to stay within the rules that they will apply to you if you so much as raise an objection.

The good news is that MAN security will have to comply with the new DfT rules for crew, two bags now allowed when on or within 24 hours of duty. we shall see if the power drunk half witts have taken the time to read the new rules!

[Shiny side down]

Is that confirmed, 2 bags allowed for crew? I ask because the staff search facility (which previously was slightly more appropriate) gives access to the ramp at glasgow, from where the walk to the domestic pier has become a little more convoluted because of the urgent need to convert the area adjacent gate14 into some form of pampering lounge. So it's all become a bit of a complete 4rse ache.
Domestic search is the direct route into the domestic pier, but is generally staffed with the regular (10%) complement of intelectually-challenged.

[Human Factor]

Back to the top as I have no doubt there are some people who don't read CHIRP.

[A and C]

Two bags for crew is now a DfT rule.

No doubt this change will take some time to reach the "coalface" and I have no doubt that the power drunk members of the security community will still try to impose the old rule just to fuel there egos.

I will try to find a link to the relivent DfT documents, I would recoment that if you are going to use the two bag rule you have a copy of the net DfT ruling................ I suspect you will need to show it!

[SKI]

The best thing would be a day or two of action...ie no flights...Christmas would be a good time and that would give the papers something to talk about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rmac]

Thats a great idea SKI, considering that all it will do is help give more of the security berks extra time off over christmas due to no/low traffic, oh, and piss off all the paying punters who are equally, or more inconvenienced by them

[toratoratora]

It would be good to obtain a printout of said DFT ruling,if only to stick under the nose of some bolshy 'erbert who decides to throw his/her weight around (see how gender correct I am? Sad....).
The BAA security people in particular seem to forget that the airlines(and their crew) are the CUSTOMERS. No airlines= no airports= no jobs,etc....

[Symbian]

Best way to treat some of these so called security monkeys is to play them at their own game i.e. soon as one of them is rude to me I ask to see their supervisor and manager and have on occasion called the police to make a complaint of abusive behaviour. Exactly what those clowns would do to us if we were to talk to them in a condescending manner. It works every time as they do not have the savvy to start a war of words especially if they involve more than one syllable.

I off course then file an ASR,(MOR if serious) CHIRP if above a minor fracas and always fill out a complaint form and send to D of T its available for download from their site. Finally I get names and file a report via my base manager.

I’m glad to say I have a reputation for been a complete pain in the arse at my local airfield security cell and I am very proud of that. It also has the added benefit of being treated with respect every time I go through as they know me to well to push their luck.

Above all stay within the rules and there is not a dammed thing they can do when you start creating a scene at the way you have been treated.

[Terraplaneblues]

Do nothing and hope it goes away

Back to the top as I have no doubt there are some people who don't read CHIRP.

I am now considering not reading it, when presented with a genuine problem, they were fobbed off far too easily.

In order to get out of doing anything, Dft/CAA have just moved the goalposts

If people are "Chirping" then that is a confidential report and should be listened to by the Dft & the CAA, what the report is called, should not matter.

It has also illustrated the pitfalls of the MOR system.

[chrisbl]

DfT are notoriously slow in adding information to their website, their Airport Aviation link does not have any up-date. Likewise, getting information out of them is worse than getting blood out of a stone.

Do you really think that the retards who do the security job read websites?

[hotmetal]

More than one bag

For Flight Crew with a ‘Full UK issued ID Card;
Operating, Positioning and Commuting crew will, providing they are travelling within the 24 hour period preceding or following a duty - be treated as ‘staff’ ie Operating Flight Crew, for the purpose of security screening. (ie you will be allowed more than one bag through security – essentially as if you are operating)
Let's be clear. This is MORE THAN ONE BAG. Not two bags. Some people may want to take 3 for example if they have a handbag. If we start telling security staff there is a new rule about 2 bags they will think it is 2 and no more. The new rule is more than 1!

I don't know why they say a Full UK Issued ID Card. Do some people just have half ID cards or something?

[Feather #3]

The answer, hotmetal, is that there are other flyers who may transit the UK in similar circumstances, but they may only take 1 bag as they don't have a UK issue ID.

G'day

[hotmetal]

Well i understand what a UK ID is but I don't know what Full ID is

[overstress]

It's like being 'fully ready' for departure, or the aircraft coming to a 'complete stop'.

[Grasscarp]

I am very pleased to see that this thread has been started. I was stunned by some of the stories in latest Chirp, especially the poor pilot with the wrong size of contact lens solution. Common sense would be to have one set of rules for passengers and a different set for crew. Why cant the D of T etc see the current one size fits all approach makes no sense whatsoever.