Show me the money! AA pilots opener ;-)
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Oh. and buy the way. I don't give a flying @!#%^$ what the market will bear! If they can make money at 90 dollar oil they can dam well afford to pay us a decent wage!
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Fellow Pilots,
The article below is an excerpt from “What Were They Thinking? Unconventional Wisdom about Management” by Jeffrey Pfeffer (Harvard Business School Press, 2007) that appeared in Sunday’s Dallas Morning News. Dr. Pfeffer is a professor of organizational behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and a world-renowned management, leadership and human resources scholar. Dr. Pfeffer’s article explains that though unions are often maligned, research shows that they can make companies highly profitable and competitive.
Fraternally,
Captain Lloyd Hill, President
Common Wisdom about Unions Dispelled in Data
If there's one word that never fails to raise the blood pressure of my friends in business, that word is unions. Even presumably progressive thinkers and executives in countries with a strong labor tradition see unions as anachronisms in the modern world.
Like much conventional wisdom, however, the prevailing views about unions are often inaccurate or incomplete.
Wages up, profit up
Consider the effect of unions on wages. Yes, there is evidence that unions raise wages. But higher wages do not automatically translate into lower profits or diminished competitiveness.
How can wages go up without profit going down? First, higher wages attract more skilled employees. Unionized firms, generally offering higher wages and more attractive working conditions, pull in more skilled and educated people. Such employees accomplish more per unit of time they work and thus are more productive.
Second, higher wages decrease turnover. Multiple studies in both unionized and nonunion settings demonstrate the negative relationship between relative wages and quit rates. Turnover is expensive, so curbing turnover produces benefits for the company.
Third, higher wages, just like higher prices for anything, encourage companies to economize on the use of labor. In the case of employees, that means investing in equipment and training, and ensuring that work methods are as efficient as possible so that labor hours don't get wasted. Studies in a number of industries demonstrate that unionized workforces are actually more productive than their nonunion counterparts.
Unions not only affect wages, but they also affect the distribution of earnings. Unions have an egalitarian ethos - necessary to effectively organize for collective action - and generally strive for a more equal wage structure. There is a lot of discussion about the "high road" competitive strategy in which industrialized countries stop trying to compete on the basis of labor costs - a battle they can never win - but instead compete on innovation, productivity and brainpower. In this effort, the evidence suggests that the implementation of high-performance work practices is useful.
Contrary to what many believe, having a unionized workforce is not antithetical to high-commitment or high-performance work practices - things such as investment in training, working in self-managed teams, longer-term time horizons for the employment relationship (read: more job security), information sharing and so forth. Rather, the empirical evidence suggests that unionization is positively associated with the implementation of such practices.
Furthermore, research suggests that many high-commitment work arrangements are relatively fragile. That's because the typical response to economic stress is to abandon strategies that entail investing in people or social capital. Ironically, unionization may lead to higher persistence of high-commitment work arrangements because unions act as a countervailing force to short-term pressures to abandon such arrangements.
It is perhaps in medicine where the positive effects of unionization can be most clearly seen. Studies summarized by a report from the Institute of Medicine show that lowering the nurse-patient ratio - a short-term cost-cutting tactic embraced by many hospital administrators and political figures but vigorously opposed by nurses' unions - is associated with higher rates of infection, pneumonia, cardiac arrest and death.
The authors concluded that it was probably the increased power the unionization provided to nurses as well as the increased level of joint decision-making that led to the better patient care results. That same study found that much of the gain disappears when union-management relations are adversarial.
Success stories
Some of the most successful private-sector organizations are unionized. Southwest Airlines, the only carrier to have been profitable each of the last 34 years, is the most unionized of all U.S. airlines at 82 percent of employees. UPS is unionized. So it is possible to be economically successful and have labor organizations.
Consider Cingular Wireless (now AT&T), which remained neutral while 18,000 employees joined the Communication Workers of America. At the same time, the company achieved the best financial results in its history, and Lew Walker, vice president of human resources, believes there is a connection between the two.
That's because the company got "engaged employees who are focused on customer service and building the Cingular network rather than nursing grudges against management."
The article below is an excerpt from “What Were They Thinking? Unconventional Wisdom about Management” by Jeffrey Pfeffer (Harvard Business School Press, 2007) that appeared in Sunday’s Dallas Morning News. Dr. Pfeffer is a professor of organizational behavior at the Stanford Graduate School of Business and a world-renowned management, leadership and human resources scholar. Dr. Pfeffer’s article explains that though unions are often maligned, research shows that they can make companies highly profitable and competitive.
Fraternally,
Captain Lloyd Hill, President
Common Wisdom about Unions Dispelled in Data
If there's one word that never fails to raise the blood pressure of my friends in business, that word is unions. Even presumably progressive thinkers and executives in countries with a strong labor tradition see unions as anachronisms in the modern world.
Like much conventional wisdom, however, the prevailing views about unions are often inaccurate or incomplete.
Wages up, profit up
Consider the effect of unions on wages. Yes, there is evidence that unions raise wages. But higher wages do not automatically translate into lower profits or diminished competitiveness.
How can wages go up without profit going down? First, higher wages attract more skilled employees. Unionized firms, generally offering higher wages and more attractive working conditions, pull in more skilled and educated people. Such employees accomplish more per unit of time they work and thus are more productive.
Second, higher wages decrease turnover. Multiple studies in both unionized and nonunion settings demonstrate the negative relationship between relative wages and quit rates. Turnover is expensive, so curbing turnover produces benefits for the company.
Third, higher wages, just like higher prices for anything, encourage companies to economize on the use of labor. In the case of employees, that means investing in equipment and training, and ensuring that work methods are as efficient as possible so that labor hours don't get wasted. Studies in a number of industries demonstrate that unionized workforces are actually more productive than their nonunion counterparts.
Unions not only affect wages, but they also affect the distribution of earnings. Unions have an egalitarian ethos - necessary to effectively organize for collective action - and generally strive for a more equal wage structure. There is a lot of discussion about the "high road" competitive strategy in which industrialized countries stop trying to compete on the basis of labor costs - a battle they can never win - but instead compete on innovation, productivity and brainpower. In this effort, the evidence suggests that the implementation of high-performance work practices is useful.
Contrary to what many believe, having a unionized workforce is not antithetical to high-commitment or high-performance work practices - things such as investment in training, working in self-managed teams, longer-term time horizons for the employment relationship (read: more job security), information sharing and so forth. Rather, the empirical evidence suggests that unionization is positively associated with the implementation of such practices.
Furthermore, research suggests that many high-commitment work arrangements are relatively fragile. That's because the typical response to economic stress is to abandon strategies that entail investing in people or social capital. Ironically, unionization may lead to higher persistence of high-commitment work arrangements because unions act as a countervailing force to short-term pressures to abandon such arrangements.
It is perhaps in medicine where the positive effects of unionization can be most clearly seen. Studies summarized by a report from the Institute of Medicine show that lowering the nurse-patient ratio - a short-term cost-cutting tactic embraced by many hospital administrators and political figures but vigorously opposed by nurses' unions - is associated with higher rates of infection, pneumonia, cardiac arrest and death.
The authors concluded that it was probably the increased power the unionization provided to nurses as well as the increased level of joint decision-making that led to the better patient care results. That same study found that much of the gain disappears when union-management relations are adversarial.
Success stories
Some of the most successful private-sector organizations are unionized. Southwest Airlines, the only carrier to have been profitable each of the last 34 years, is the most unionized of all U.S. airlines at 82 percent of employees. UPS is unionized. So it is possible to be economically successful and have labor organizations.
Consider Cingular Wireless (now AT&T), which remained neutral while 18,000 employees joined the Communication Workers of America. At the same time, the company achieved the best financial results in its history, and Lew Walker, vice president of human resources, believes there is a connection between the two.
That's because the company got "engaged employees who are focused on customer service and building the Cingular network rather than nursing grudges against management."
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I firmly believe that T&C was taken from pilots over the last decade, but even as far back as 30 years ago.
And pilots let it be taken.
If they want it back, they will have to take it back.
May the force be with AA!!
And pilots let it be taken.
If they want it back, they will have to take it back.
May the force be with AA!!
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B scale was a catastrophe for our profession. Fortunately all of the people that engineered it are dead and buried. Only about 700 "A" scalers remain at AA. That's about 9500 guys that had to live through some kind of B scale in the beginning of their careers. Everyone knows the damage it did. Times have changed.
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Times have changed.
Shut down AA will you?
Welcome to try, but blood out of a turnip is not all that possible, in today's competative airline world.
You will find out...the company will give up more salary..yes, but not anywhere near what the APA malcontents might hope for...lottsa luck, Bubba...ROFL
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I took a stiff drink and turned the 411-filter off...
and believe it or not, a great deal of what he says is absolutely correct. And I work for AA....
However: what he (and our 'management') have totally failed to take into account this time is that the outrage is not primarily caused by wage rates, but more by the totally unacceptable unethical behaviour of certain individuals high-up in HQ who were warned and should have known better.
As Von Klauswitz preached: the generals [I]never, ever[I]eat before the troops.
Believe me 411, this time at least 50% of the guys I'm flying with intend to burn the place down (and have other careers) if there are not serious changes. It's no idle talk...they are saying that they are going to make a statement for all American workers, if need be, and force Congress to accept some of the 3 recent Democratic bills to control executive compensation in the US. Even if ordered back by Dubya, a lot of the guys are saying 'no way...not this time....this is it, we're at the defining moment'. The economic damage in n. Texas would be unbelievable, I know first hand from an exec. that a VP has said 'if they want to Eastern Airlines it, so be it'.
Then there's the FA's and the ground workers, shortly after...
So be it....
and believe it or not, a great deal of what he says is absolutely correct. And I work for AA....
However: what he (and our 'management') have totally failed to take into account this time is that the outrage is not primarily caused by wage rates, but more by the totally unacceptable unethical behaviour of certain individuals high-up in HQ who were warned and should have known better.
As Von Klauswitz preached: the generals [I]never, ever[I]eat before the troops.
Believe me 411, this time at least 50% of the guys I'm flying with intend to burn the place down (and have other careers) if there are not serious changes. It's no idle talk...they are saying that they are going to make a statement for all American workers, if need be, and force Congress to accept some of the 3 recent Democratic bills to control executive compensation in the US. Even if ordered back by Dubya, a lot of the guys are saying 'no way...not this time....this is it, we're at the defining moment'. The economic damage in n. Texas would be unbelievable, I know first hand from an exec. that a VP has said 'if they want to Eastern Airlines it, so be it'.
Then there's the FA's and the ground workers, shortly after...
So be it....
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The Devil you know
RRAMJET
Nice post....as a former recipient of APA's group power (enjoying that early retirement) I think you are spot on about the war to come but I hope after some blood and battle that cooler heads prevail and some sort of % increase sets the future.
Trust you and your APA members use the same "techniques" to get what we deserve (yes I am still considering coming back).
Lets see what the Dems do....wonder how much AMR is lining Hillary's pockets right now (or is it Rudy's) hmmm!....do you really think its gonna go to the White House before next november...
Hats at home is just the begining!!
Looking fwd to Travelling With American soon
teedub
Nice post....as a former recipient of APA's group power (enjoying that early retirement) I think you are spot on about the war to come but I hope after some blood and battle that cooler heads prevail and some sort of % increase sets the future.
Trust you and your APA members use the same "techniques" to get what we deserve (yes I am still considering coming back).
Lets see what the Dems do....wonder how much AMR is lining Hillary's pockets right now (or is it Rudy's) hmmm!....do you really think its gonna go to the White House before next november...
Hats at home is just the begining!!
Looking fwd to Travelling With American soon
teedub
Last edited by teedub; 31st Oct 2007 at 00:57. Reason: miss spell
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The" so be it" management mentality has failed in the past and will in the future. AA management has been going down hill for quite some time. The yes men chief pilots now are alienated from the pilots in most cases and are not trusted. I have worked under those conditions and know how it changes your way of protecting your future by knowing you are on your own in the aircraft so you have to protect yourself, nobody else will. Efficiency takes second place to covering your 6. Things need to change at AA. A lot of bad things are happening now, mostly from the top.
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This is what the actual APA Pay proposal is:-
"The pay proposal presented by APA to AMR management is based on the concept of pay restoration. The initial pay rate adjustments incorporated in the proposal are
designed to restore the purchasing power pilots had in 1992, adjusted for inflation.
American Airlines pilot pay rates are slightly below the pay rates that were in effect in 1992. In the period 1992 through year-to-date 2007, the pilots of American
Airlines lost more than a third of their purchasing power as the cost of goods and services has increased in the same time frame.
During the same period, the top five “named executive officers” at AMR—those executives whose compensation is required to be reported in regulatory filings— have seen their income increase 469 percent, while the AMR CEO’s has seen an increase of 723 percent. The CEO’s purchasing power is now 560 percent of what it was in 1992.
While professional-level incomes generally increased between 1992 and 2007— defraying the effects of inflation—American Airlines pilot income has remained flat.
Moreover, our current pilot income trails pilot income at key competitors, typically by double-digit margins.
A more rewarding pilot contract is well within the means of the corporation. The company just reported its sixth consecutive profitable quarter in spite of a 277 percent increase in fuel costs since 1999. AMR's cash balance is at a historically high level and the company has paid down nearly $5 billion in debt over the last two years, reducing total debt by 40 percent.
Our initial pilot pay restoration proposal would increase the corporation's cost per available seat mile by less than half a cent, and would allow the company to retain a cost advantage over key competitors like Continental, Delta and USAirways.
AMR management has enjoyed massive increases in compensation and purchasing power over the last 15 years. In contrast, APA proposes a reasonable restoration to
levels of historical purchasing power in our next collective bargaining agreement."
designed to restore the purchasing power pilots had in 1992, adjusted for inflation.
American Airlines pilot pay rates are slightly below the pay rates that were in effect in 1992. In the period 1992 through year-to-date 2007, the pilots of American
Airlines lost more than a third of their purchasing power as the cost of goods and services has increased in the same time frame.
During the same period, the top five “named executive officers” at AMR—those executives whose compensation is required to be reported in regulatory filings— have seen their income increase 469 percent, while the AMR CEO’s has seen an increase of 723 percent. The CEO’s purchasing power is now 560 percent of what it was in 1992.
While professional-level incomes generally increased between 1992 and 2007— defraying the effects of inflation—American Airlines pilot income has remained flat.
Moreover, our current pilot income trails pilot income at key competitors, typically by double-digit margins.
A more rewarding pilot contract is well within the means of the corporation. The company just reported its sixth consecutive profitable quarter in spite of a 277 percent increase in fuel costs since 1999. AMR's cash balance is at a historically high level and the company has paid down nearly $5 billion in debt over the last two years, reducing total debt by 40 percent.
Our initial pilot pay restoration proposal would increase the corporation's cost per available seat mile by less than half a cent, and would allow the company to retain a cost advantage over key competitors like Continental, Delta and USAirways.
AMR management has enjoyed massive increases in compensation and purchasing power over the last 15 years. In contrast, APA proposes a reasonable restoration to
levels of historical purchasing power in our next collective bargaining agreement."
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Philly Pilot states it like it is. If you take away 23.5 of your wages in 03 and give it back in 08 you still have a lower wage without figuring inflation. The number is smaller so you are still below the 03 pay. I hate to see a strike to settle this but it looks like it is going to happen unless management gets realistic about how unfair the last year has been in compensation of management and employees after the big pay cuts. SHUT THEM DOWN! Maybe that will get their attention for a while.
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AA pay raise
No one more than I would like to see them win this issue. They make a very valid point re the state of the industry over the past decade. However, AA might be making a profit but the fact is that fuel prices are something even the traveling public can understand. They see it every day at the pumps and on the news. Hence the airlines have passed on most, all, or in some cases more than, the actual cost to the traveling public in "fuel surcharges" on the airfaires. I doubt very much this same understanding public would swallow a "Pilot Pay Raise" surcharge on airfares; especially after the airline makes thier pay increase public in media. The cost per seat mile is a valid argument and in a perfect world should be sufficient grounds to justify the raise. I imagine the seat mile cost savings gained with the concessions were similar and thus justified to ensure survival. Should works both ways.
We suffer from the misguided stereotyping that all pilots are financially solvent and fly for the love of it. As for the traveling public, they will waste no time is pointing out just where we can find sympathy in the dictionary.
We suffer from the misguided stereotyping that all pilots are financially solvent and fly for the love of it. As for the traveling public, they will waste no time is pointing out just where we can find sympathy in the dictionary.
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Cat II
"....the actual cost to the traveling public in "fuel surcharges" on the airfaires. I doubt very much this same understanding public would swallow a "Pilot Pay Raise" surcharge on airfares....."
Unfortunately, there is a 'cost' to the airlines for having 'professionally flown aircraft' just like there is a cost for oil, tires, catering etc.
The 'travelling public' doesn't have a say in management compensation or their pension/bonusses/golden parachutes either. They want everything for nothing. Time to wean them off this.
Just as you (hopefully) won't go to the cheapest heart surgeon, you'll want the best. They may not come cheap, they will want the best pay for their skills. Its time pilots woke up to this and stopped 'paying' for the fun of flying and got down to business.
"....the actual cost to the traveling public in "fuel surcharges" on the airfaires. I doubt very much this same understanding public would swallow a "Pilot Pay Raise" surcharge on airfares....."
Unfortunately, there is a 'cost' to the airlines for having 'professionally flown aircraft' just like there is a cost for oil, tires, catering etc.
The 'travelling public' doesn't have a say in management compensation or their pension/bonusses/golden parachutes either. They want everything for nothing. Time to wean them off this.
Just as you (hopefully) won't go to the cheapest heart surgeon, you'll want the best. They may not come cheap, they will want the best pay for their skills. Its time pilots woke up to this and stopped 'paying' for the fun of flying and got down to business.
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AA
Beautifully said, couldn't agree more. Maybe my cynicism is born of a 28 year career flying for several North American carriers in addition to Asian and Middle East carriers just trying to stay one step ahead of the repo man. Let's hope hope this is the beginning...
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Good luck to all you AA guys in the negotiations. It is time to stop the deteroriation of T&Cs.
When you read the ever whinging comments of some of the posters and nay-sayers in this thread, bear in mind that they have not comprehended basic management psychology and are oblivious to the utter rubbish spin spouted from management. These guys think themselves seasoned, but fail to see that they have adopted the views management have been trying to sell as the truth, but these arguments are JUST bollocks used to make workers accept decisions made by management. It is painful to see these guys try to bring down their fellow colleagues and appreciate the benevolent wisdom of managers who DESERVE outrageous renumeration, because without them the company would be in dire straits. Utter rubbish! A manager's job is to try to squeeze all costs as much as he can and will use most means to get there - including psychology and intimidation while lining his own pocket. Do not be fooled by these arguments. It is spin. As for the nay-sayers, jealousy and envy are main constituents of their motivation.
Go for it, guys. YOU deserve it!
When you read the ever whinging comments of some of the posters and nay-sayers in this thread, bear in mind that they have not comprehended basic management psychology and are oblivious to the utter rubbish spin spouted from management. These guys think themselves seasoned, but fail to see that they have adopted the views management have been trying to sell as the truth, but these arguments are JUST bollocks used to make workers accept decisions made by management. It is painful to see these guys try to bring down their fellow colleagues and appreciate the benevolent wisdom of managers who DESERVE outrageous renumeration, because without them the company would be in dire straits. Utter rubbish! A manager's job is to try to squeeze all costs as much as he can and will use most means to get there - including psychology and intimidation while lining his own pocket. Do not be fooled by these arguments. It is spin. As for the nay-sayers, jealousy and envy are main constituents of their motivation.
Go for it, guys. YOU deserve it!
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It would appear that some shareholders are not especially satisfied...
From Airwise
November 30, 2007
FL Group, an Icelandic private equity group, said on Friday that it had cut its stake in American Airlines parent AMR to 1.1 percent from 9.1 percent because management of the carrier had done too little to boost its value.
Couldn't have anything to due with the present salary negotiations....naw, couldn't be
From Airwise
November 30, 2007
FL Group, an Icelandic private equity group, said on Friday that it had cut its stake in American Airlines parent AMR to 1.1 percent from 9.1 percent because management of the carrier had done too little to boost its value.
Couldn't have anything to due with the present salary negotiations....naw, couldn't be
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You're right 411a - it's nothing to do with salary negotiations...
They wanted AAdvantage sold, not Eagle. Only minor run-up in stock price this week due to AE announcement...FL are fed up waiting.
BTW we're not on salary. You should know that.
They wanted AAdvantage sold, not Eagle. Only minor run-up in stock price this week due to AE announcement...FL are fed up waiting.
BTW we're not on salary. You should know that.