Show me the money! AA pilots opener ;-)
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Show me the money! AA pilots opener ;-)
American pilots ask for pay increase of 53 percent
Fort Worth Star-Telegam, October 24, 2007
American Airlines' pilots have asked for a hefty boost in pay and benefits, a proposal that analysts said would likely lead to long and arduous contract negotiations at the world's largest airline.
The proposal, presented to the airline Tuesday, requests a one-time raise that would restore pilot salaries to 1992 levels, when adjusted for inflation. If approved by May 2008, that would mean a raise of about 53 percent.
The union also asked for future annual raises of 6 percent and annual cost-of-living increases, and a signing bonus that totals 15 percent of a pilot's earnings between July 21, 2006, when talks began, and the effective date of the new contract.
Labor leaders said the proposal restores purchasing power that pilots have lost since 1992 to pay cuts and inflation. They point out that American's executives have enjoyed a substantial increase in pay in recent years while pilot earnings have fallen.
"Inflation has killed our purchasing power," said Karl Schricker, an American pilot and spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association, which represents the 12,000 pilots at the Fort Worth-based airline. "Senior management, meanwhile, has seen theirs go up over 500 percent."
Airline officials said they were reviewing the proposal. But they stressed that any significant increase in pay would likely hurt the company's competitive position.
"At first glance, it appears the items they've proposed would dramatically increase our pilot costs, which would make us even less competitive," spokeswoman Tami McLallen said. "And some of the things they've asked for are unprecedented."
The contract talks are being closely watched by the industry. American is the first major hub carrier to negotiate a new deal with pilots since the wave of bankruptcies and restructuring after 9-11 that dramatically cut employee wages and benefits. Already struggling with the rapid rise in fuel prices, airlines are worried that steeper labor costs will jeopardize the industry's turnaround.
In 2003, when American was on the brink of bankruptcy, pilots approved concessions that slashed average pay by 23 percent, saving the airline about $660 million annually and allowing it to avoid a Chapter 11 filing. Since then, American has returned to profitability, with six straight profitable quarters.
So far this year, American has earned $573 million in profit. Union leaders argue that the financial turnaround means that it's time for the airline to restore pilots' pay. And they say that their proposal would not significantly boost the airline's costs.
According to the union, the deal would increase the total cost of transporting one seat one mile by about a half-cent. That would be about a 4 percent increase, and would still give the airline lower costs than Continental Airlines, Delta Air Lines and US Airways.
"American has been able to absorb the cost of fuel and still earn millions in profits," Schricker said. "They could certainly absorb this modest increase."
McLallen said it was too early for the airline to provide a detailed analysis of the proposal's impact on costs.
One analyst was skeptical. William Swelbar, a researcher for the International Center for Air Transport at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said it would be "pretty hard for [American] to get their arms around this."
He said the proposed 6 percent raises, plus cost-of-living adjustments, are "unheard of" in the industry today.
"It's been an awful long time since we've seen raises like this for anyone," said Swelbar, who has worked in the airline industry for nearly 30 years, both for unions and management.
He predicted that the proposal signaled that pilots are ready to endure long and difficult bargaining over the new contract.
"It's seems to me that this is inviting a very long and arduous negotiation," he said. "And that might be their strategy."
Labor leaders, however, said the proposal is reasonable and are hopeful that talks will be swift.
"We understand the need to be competitive," Schricker said. "This allows us to keep a cost advantage, and we don't see why we can't move quickly on it."
In May, the union submitted a pay proposal that included a 30 percent raise as well as signing bonuses -- a plan that was rejected by the airline. Two months later, union members elected new leaders who promised to take a more aggressive negotiating stance. Talks, which had formally begun more than a year ago, essentially restarted with new pilot negotiators.
Schricker said the new pay plan reflects the desires of pilots, which were documented in a survey this summer.
"They just want to get back what they've lost," he said.
The proposal would also:
Give pilots holiday pay for work on 10 scheduled holidays, including Christmas, Labor Day and Super Bowl Sunday. The current contract doesn't provide holiday pay.
Increase vacation time and change sick time to "personal time" that can be used for any reason, including illness.
Implement an unspecified annual bonus plan for pilots based on the company's performance.
Eliminate a one-year probation period for new hires.
The deal, which would last until Jan. 4, 2011, would also greatly quicken the pace of negotiations for the next contract. It specifies that talks would begin 180 days before the contract opened for changes and that mediation could begin 120 prior to that days if the two sides couldn't reach an agreement.
It would allow the union to strike if a deal isn't reached by the contract's amendable date.
Currently, talks at American and other airlines are conducted under federal laws that allow for significant mediation and "cooling-off" time before unions can strike. That time often extends years beyond the contract's final date.
The pilots' proposal also asks the airline to pay all of the union's direct negotiating costs. Currently those expenses are shouldered by the union.
The pilot plan did not address scheduling or productivity. Airline executives have insisted that productivity gains must accompany any pay increases. Labor leaders said those issues will be addressed in future proposals.
The pilots are just one of three major contracts that American will be negotiating over the next few years. Next month, the airline will begin talks with the union that represents mechanics and other ground workers. And flight attendants will begin their negotiations in March.
Shares of AMR Corp., American's parent (ticker: AMR), closed at $24.65, up $1.34, in trading Tuesday.
Fort Worth Star-Telegam, October 24, 2007
American Airlines' pilots have asked for a hefty boost in pay and benefits, a proposal that analysts said would likely lead to long and arduous contract negotiations at the world's largest airline.
The proposal, presented to the airline Tuesday, requests a one-time raise that would restore pilot salaries to 1992 levels, when adjusted for inflation. If approved by May 2008, that would mean a raise of about 53 percent.
The union also asked for future annual raises of 6 percent and annual cost-of-living increases, and a signing bonus that totals 15 percent of a pilot's earnings between July 21, 2006, when talks began, and the effective date of the new contract.
Labor leaders said the proposal restores purchasing power that pilots have lost since 1992 to pay cuts and inflation. They point out that American's executives have enjoyed a substantial increase in pay in recent years while pilot earnings have fallen.
"Inflation has killed our purchasing power," said Karl Schricker, an American pilot and spokesman for the Allied Pilots Association, which represents the 12,000 pilots at the Fort Worth-based airline. "Senior management, meanwhile, has seen theirs go up over 500 percent."
Airline officials said they were reviewing the proposal. But they stressed that any significant increase in pay would likely hurt the company's competitive position.
"At first glance, it appears the items they've proposed would dramatically increase our pilot costs, which would make us even less competitive," spokeswoman Tami McLallen said. "And some of the things they've asked for are unprecedented."
The contract talks are being closely watched by the industry. American is the first major hub carrier to negotiate a new deal with pilots since the wave of bankruptcies and restructuring after 9-11 that dramatically cut employee wages and benefits. Already struggling with the rapid rise in fuel prices, airlines are worried that steeper labor costs will jeopardize the industry's turnaround.
In 2003, when American was on the brink of bankruptcy, pilots approved concessions that slashed average pay by 23 percent, saving the airline about $660 million annually and allowing it to avoid a Chapter 11 filing. Since then, American has returned to profitability, with six straight profitable quarters.
So far this year, American has earned $573 million in profit. Union leaders argue that the financial turnaround means that it's time for the airline to restore pilots' pay. And they say that their proposal would not significantly boost the airline's costs.
According to the union, the deal would increase the total cost of transporting one seat one mile by about a half-cent. That would be about a 4 percent increase, and would still give the airline lower costs than Continental Airlines, Delta Air Lines and US Airways.
"American has been able to absorb the cost of fuel and still earn millions in profits," Schricker said. "They could certainly absorb this modest increase."
McLallen said it was too early for the airline to provide a detailed analysis of the proposal's impact on costs.
One analyst was skeptical. William Swelbar, a researcher for the International Center for Air Transport at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said it would be "pretty hard for [American] to get their arms around this."
He said the proposed 6 percent raises, plus cost-of-living adjustments, are "unheard of" in the industry today.
"It's been an awful long time since we've seen raises like this for anyone," said Swelbar, who has worked in the airline industry for nearly 30 years, both for unions and management.
He predicted that the proposal signaled that pilots are ready to endure long and difficult bargaining over the new contract.
"It's seems to me that this is inviting a very long and arduous negotiation," he said. "And that might be their strategy."
Labor leaders, however, said the proposal is reasonable and are hopeful that talks will be swift.
"We understand the need to be competitive," Schricker said. "This allows us to keep a cost advantage, and we don't see why we can't move quickly on it."
In May, the union submitted a pay proposal that included a 30 percent raise as well as signing bonuses -- a plan that was rejected by the airline. Two months later, union members elected new leaders who promised to take a more aggressive negotiating stance. Talks, which had formally begun more than a year ago, essentially restarted with new pilot negotiators.
Schricker said the new pay plan reflects the desires of pilots, which were documented in a survey this summer.
"They just want to get back what they've lost," he said.
The proposal would also:
Give pilots holiday pay for work on 10 scheduled holidays, including Christmas, Labor Day and Super Bowl Sunday. The current contract doesn't provide holiday pay.
Increase vacation time and change sick time to "personal time" that can be used for any reason, including illness.
Implement an unspecified annual bonus plan for pilots based on the company's performance.
Eliminate a one-year probation period for new hires.
The deal, which would last until Jan. 4, 2011, would also greatly quicken the pace of negotiations for the next contract. It specifies that talks would begin 180 days before the contract opened for changes and that mediation could begin 120 prior to that days if the two sides couldn't reach an agreement.
It would allow the union to strike if a deal isn't reached by the contract's amendable date.
Currently, talks at American and other airlines are conducted under federal laws that allow for significant mediation and "cooling-off" time before unions can strike. That time often extends years beyond the contract's final date.
The pilots' proposal also asks the airline to pay all of the union's direct negotiating costs. Currently those expenses are shouldered by the union.
The pilot plan did not address scheduling or productivity. Airline executives have insisted that productivity gains must accompany any pay increases. Labor leaders said those issues will be addressed in future proposals.
The pilots are just one of three major contracts that American will be negotiating over the next few years. Next month, the airline will begin talks with the union that represents mechanics and other ground workers. And flight attendants will begin their negotiations in March.
Shares of AMR Corp., American's parent (ticker: AMR), closed at $24.65, up $1.34, in trading Tuesday.
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I sincerely hope that the AA pilots are winners in this.
I still blame them for the "B" scale, maybe they can make things right and get the world of airline pilots back up to the flight levels, instead of skimming by at the treetops (no reference implied to BDL ;-0 )
I still blame them for the "B" scale, maybe they can make things right and get the world of airline pilots back up to the flight levels, instead of skimming by at the treetops (no reference implied to BDL ;-0 )
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There is no comparison between pay claims by AA pilots and pilots in Australia.
AA pilots took a number of very significant pay cuts over the years to save their airline. AA also furloughed many pilots, some of whom have still not been recalled.
The US IR scene can not be compared to Australia. For starters, Australian workers have far greater protection.
AA pilots took a number of very significant pay cuts over the years to save their airline. AA also furloughed many pilots, some of whom have still not been recalled.
The US IR scene can not be compared to Australia. For starters, Australian workers have far greater protection.
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Charliethewonderdog.
Intimately.
From memory, the AA pilots took pay cuts in excess of 25% and up to 50% to save their employer airline.
Going Boeing.
Correct - and the laws of supply and demand will eventually establish and stabilise pilot wages in Australia, as it should in a free market economy.
However, one can not compare the US and Australian airline industrial arrangements.
Intimately.
"....requests a one-time raise that would restore pilot salaries to 1992 levels, when adjusted for inflation."
Going Boeing.
Correct - and the laws of supply and demand will eventually establish and stabilise pilot wages in Australia, as it should in a free market economy.
However, one can not compare the US and Australian airline industrial arrangements.
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Perhaps a better solution might be for American Airlines management to sell off the airline, piece by piece, to other carriers such as Continental or Delta, thereby solving AA's pilots demands altogether.
Nothing like stapling the AA guys to the bottom of someone elses senority list to get their immediate attention...they would forget all about a 53% pay raise...
Nothing like stapling the AA guys to the bottom of someone elses senority list to get their immediate attention...they would forget all about a 53% pay raise...
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Oh dear...terribly sorry Monday if you don't like my comments, but I find it truly remarkable that already well paid pilots (AA) would ask for a totally unreasonable 53% pay raise.
Lets face facts here.
AA pilots agreed to lower pay a few years ago to (in most part) protect their company pensions but to now expect 53% more is rather unreasonable...perhaps they would now like to give up their pensions to achieve that 53%...most likely not.
Lets face facts here.
AA pilots agreed to lower pay a few years ago to (in most part) protect their company pensions but to now expect 53% more is rather unreasonable...perhaps they would now like to give up their pensions to achieve that 53%...most likely not.
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Why would you sell off a profitable airline? Making a profit for six straight quarters is proof that the trend is positive and now is the time to get back your concessions. After all it's the guys up front that saved the day after 9/11 so time to get the just reward. If you think that 53% is outrageous then keep in mind that our last contract here in ex-commie land gave us a 50.5% increase in wages over three years. It's doable. Go for it!
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From memory, the AA pilots took pay cuts in excess of 25% and up to 50% to save their employer airline.
Furlough.....
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Oh dear...terribly sorry Monday if you don't like my comments, but I find it truly remarkable that already well paid pilots (AA) would ask for a totally unreasonable 53% pay raise.
Where are the well paid AA pilots? Maybe my vision needs testing again, because I haven't seen any lately.
Where are the well paid AA pilots? Maybe my vision needs testing again, because I haven't seen any lately.
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Hardly the time to ask for such a great rise when the financial firms that pay for their employees to travel are making massive cutbacks on staff and expenses.
To appear credible though, they should have started at the 500% that management achieved for themselves - at least while unrealistic, management would realise that everyone works hard and they must appear to be more equitable.
To appear credible though, they should have started at the 500% that management achieved for themselves - at least while unrealistic, management would realise that everyone works hard and they must appear to be more equitable.
Check Airman, 411A lives in the past (aah, the good old days) and makes comments based on that era.
I don't for one moment think that AAL pilots expect to get anywhere near 53%. They're just publicising a very valid point.
Coalface workers in many industries have taken pay cut after pay cut only to see senior managers take raise after raise.
I don't for one moment think that AAL pilots expect to get anywhere near 53%. They're just publicising a very valid point.
Coalface workers in many industries have taken pay cut after pay cut only to see senior managers take raise after raise.
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BTW, what's the source of this information? Hope it's credible and we're not wasting out time...
He said the proposed 6 percent raises, plus cost-of-living adjustments, are "unheard of" in the industry today.
Indeed it may be, but then again, there are many many things in aviation today, that were unheard of a few years ago. The indignities at "security" checkpoints, the low wages nowadays...Ten years ago, if someone told me it would be this way now, I'd call them ridiculous.
All the major airlines have changed in pretty significant ways over the years. In all the cases, pilots (and other astff) have increased productivity and reduced income. Now that the companies are turning profit, it's time for us to reap the fruits of the sacrifices we've all made.
He said the proposed 6 percent raises, plus cost-of-living adjustments, are "unheard of" in the industry today.
Indeed it may be, but then again, there are many many things in aviation today, that were unheard of a few years ago. The indignities at "security" checkpoints, the low wages nowadays...Ten years ago, if someone told me it would be this way now, I'd call them ridiculous.
All the major airlines have changed in pretty significant ways over the years. In all the cases, pilots (and other astff) have increased productivity and reduced income. Now that the companies are turning profit, it's time for us to reap the fruits of the sacrifices we've all made.
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Hmmm, if their demand for 53% is justified in today's market, that must mean they are being paid 53% less than they could get elsewhere, otherwise called the market rate.
There's a global pilot shortage.
Time to walk, maybe? Mobility goes with the territory of being an airline pilot, just as it does in some other professions.
Of course the administrative snouts in the trough are an affront while others suffer. Unfortunately it's an affront that's irrelevant to this issue.
There's a global pilot shortage.
Time to walk, maybe? Mobility goes with the territory of being an airline pilot, just as it does in some other professions.
Of course the administrative snouts in the trough are an affront while others suffer. Unfortunately it's an affront that's irrelevant to this issue.
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I sincerely hope they win. It would be a welcome change to see T&C's on the way up again.
This industry is not short of cash, and it's time the ruthless got a dose of their own medicine. It's pilots who deliver safety and efficiency everyday. We're the ones who make their shoestring operations hold together, and pull them out of the poo when the chips are down.
I might be a lone voice, but I really wish the guys at AA well. I hope that just for once we get some recognition for the ridiculous rosters and the constant fatigue. I'm sick to death of people within our own profession grinning with shadenfreude when yet another great aviation job gets shafted by some private equity shark.
It's high time we drew a line in the sand.
This industry is not short of cash, and it's time the ruthless got a dose of their own medicine. It's pilots who deliver safety and efficiency everyday. We're the ones who make their shoestring operations hold together, and pull them out of the poo when the chips are down.
I might be a lone voice, but I really wish the guys at AA well. I hope that just for once we get some recognition for the ridiculous rosters and the constant fatigue. I'm sick to death of people within our own profession grinning with shadenfreude when yet another great aviation job gets shafted by some private equity shark.
It's high time we drew a line in the sand.
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Mick, its never going to happen mate.!
Drawing a line in the sand will not work, except to speed up the demise of AA.
Look, the owners of the airline I work for expects to make 8 percent on their investment, and they do, thats why they are the most profitable airline in the world.
I bet london to a brick that the owners of AA make nowhere near that on their investment and quite frankly they would be better closing up shop, selling the a/c and the real estate and putting the money into a cash management account.
I do sympathise with the guys, but being profitable for a year and a half after years and years of losses does not even begin to cut into the losses already incurred.
They will never ever get back to the good old days, its just not going to happen and as much as people disagree with 411A, he is right, either bite the bullet and except what you are getting now or get out and start again somewhere else.
Drawing a line in the sand will not work, except to speed up the demise of AA.
Look, the owners of the airline I work for expects to make 8 percent on their investment, and they do, thats why they are the most profitable airline in the world.
I bet london to a brick that the owners of AA make nowhere near that on their investment and quite frankly they would be better closing up shop, selling the a/c and the real estate and putting the money into a cash management account.
I do sympathise with the guys, but being profitable for a year and a half after years and years of losses does not even begin to cut into the losses already incurred.
They will never ever get back to the good old days, its just not going to happen and as much as people disagree with 411A, he is right, either bite the bullet and except what you are getting now or get out and start again somewhere else.