DHL aircraft under attack
It amazes me that civilian pilots are willing to fly into a war zone.
How can safety standards go any lower? There must be no more 'line in the sand'.
After the frightening return in the A-300 with all hydraulic systems lost, it was my impression that European DHL pilots refused to go back. Were they offered just a little more money, or what?
They are not on a strictly "military mission", are they?
Somebody is earning lots of money, while winning a lucrative bet with the pilots' inability to stand together and say "No.". They can now be pushed into anything, if they are "pushovers".
How can safety standards go any lower? There must be no more 'line in the sand'.
After the frightening return in the A-300 with all hydraulic systems lost, it was my impression that European DHL pilots refused to go back. Were they offered just a little more money, or what?
They are not on a strictly "military mission", are they?
Somebody is earning lots of money, while winning a lucrative bet with the pilots' inability to stand together and say "No.". They can now be pushed into anything, if they are "pushovers".
Last edited by Ignition Override; 16th Nov 2007 at 06:47.
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Looking at the statistics in front of me, from Jan 1st 2007 until Oct 19th 2007, there were 124 attacks (mortar and rocket) on BIAP (Baghdad Airport), 115 at Basrah, 113 at Balad, 103 at Mosul, 89 at Talil, 88 at Tikrit, 66 at Tal Afar, etc.
Thirteen civilian aircraft damaged since Jan 1st 2007 on ground at Iraqi airfields.
Seventeen MANPADS attacks on civilian aircraft since Jan 1st 2007, four hits, none destroyed.
Beleiev me, buddy, it IS a warzone.
Thirteen civilian aircraft damaged since Jan 1st 2007 on ground at Iraqi airfields.
Seventeen MANPADS attacks on civilian aircraft since Jan 1st 2007, four hits, none destroyed.
Beleiev me, buddy, it IS a warzone.
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you guys are crazy to accept these conditions. you should all unite (if that is possible with the Venezuelan) and confront managment.if it doesn't workout go higher up , let say Germany for exemple and tell them the kind of ops you are under and trust me some people will loose there job Mick.
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You missed again
As always pilots fill chairs to satisfy there own personal requirements and need I spell out all those reasons, however in this case each of them are making their own conscious decision to fly to a very dangerous area and with all the inherent risks, that area launches.
The pay maybe great ...danger pay hmmmm... try if they are lucky percentage bonus on goods safely delivered otherwise certain individuals who classify themselves as experts will make a company statement aimed, more accurately than any mortar, at the Captain before he departs with his crew....A threat analysis has been made for aerdrome xxxx and military sources have confirmed the area is now secure for our continuing operations. The situation will be closelymonitored.
DHL is a freight company and they have product to move and as long as there are drivers prepared to take on the poor aim of hot metal whilst they remain encased in their cold tube lets just hope your friend, relative, loved one is not on the receiving end of tragic news when the
get their aim right.
Good luck drivers and lets be thankful we are not hearing the news that we have heard before, afterall DHL is a major sponsor of life saving... surf life saving that is.
The pay maybe great ...danger pay hmmmm... try if they are lucky percentage bonus on goods safely delivered otherwise certain individuals who classify themselves as experts will make a company statement aimed, more accurately than any mortar, at the Captain before he departs with his crew....A threat analysis has been made for aerdrome xxxx and military sources have confirmed the area is now secure for our continuing operations. The situation will be closelymonitored.
DHL is a freight company and they have product to move and as long as there are drivers prepared to take on the poor aim of hot metal whilst they remain encased in their cold tube lets just hope your friend, relative, loved one is not on the receiving end of tragic news when the
get their aim right.Good luck drivers and lets be thankful we are not hearing the news that we have heard before, afterall DHL is a major sponsor of life saving... surf life saving that is.
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I heard, that yesterday again, there was a very grave incident. A mortar landed in Mosul at the exact location where the B727 parks, but luckily it landed on the spot 45 minutes before the arrival of the aircraft.
Of course, as usual, nobody from Air Traffic Control bothered to inform the crew until they landed and parked the airplane. It is obvious, that the daily security briefs from DHL security IN Iraq are an absolute joke ,as always, and provide no safety at all.
DHL management has pretented so far ,despite a pattern of strong evidences,that the airplane is not being targetted, and that these incidents are just random.
To me, the managers have shown serious negligence ( criminal negligence in my opinion ) and incompetence. These incidents are extremely serious and life threatening. The people responsible for ordering these flights are knowligly taking chances with the lives of the crewmembers while trying to hide the dangers to them.
I am also extremely disappointed by The Saudi CAA, which doesn't act to prohibit such unsafe operations.
Of course, as usual, nobody from Air Traffic Control bothered to inform the crew until they landed and parked the airplane. It is obvious, that the daily security briefs from DHL security IN Iraq are an absolute joke ,as always, and provide no safety at all.
DHL management has pretented so far ,despite a pattern of strong evidences,that the airplane is not being targetted, and that these incidents are just random.
To me, the managers have shown serious negligence ( criminal negligence in my opinion ) and incompetence. These incidents are extremely serious and life threatening. The people responsible for ordering these flights are knowligly taking chances with the lives of the crewmembers while trying to hide the dangers to them.
I am also extremely disappointed by The Saudi CAA, which doesn't act to prohibit such unsafe operations.
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It's ok to bitch and to complain! But the bottom line is that DHL nor any of its contracting carriers are part of any state sponsored compulsorary service entidies, military or otherwise, which would make anybody fly if they didn't want to. Nobody is ripping the shirt off your back to drag you into a cockpit, it's not an air force.
There is alternative employment: There are beau coup jet jobs out there, especially in the orient; . . . air conditioned, low stress environment with smiling, young, eager beaver cabin dolls. No need to be stuck in a war zone.
There is alternative employment: There are beau coup jet jobs out there, especially in the orient; . . . air conditioned, low stress environment with smiling, young, eager beaver cabin dolls. No need to be stuck in a war zone.
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Do DHL insist on having fuel tank protection in their aircraft?
If not, then you are in a flying bomb.
At least request it, should make the job of the lawyers that much easier afterwards.
If not, then you are in a flying bomb.
At least request it, should make the job of the lawyers that much easier afterwards.
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DHL Bahrain
With everything that's going on with the DHL pilots and operations in Bahrain.. I wonder how long Kalitta decides maybe someone else should do the flying, since the USPS contract belongs to Kalitta anyway. I'm sure both them and DHL Bussels would love to know how fd up and unsafe things are there. Rumor has it the director of maintenance himself was heard telling the mechanics to sign off on a cracked cargo door on one of the 727's in order to keep it flying.. If that's true that son of a needs to be fired and have his kicked.
d up and unsafe things are there. Rumor has it the director of maintenance himself was heard telling the mechanics to sign off on a cracked cargo door on one of the 727's in order to keep it flying.. If that's true that son of a needs to be fired and have his kicked.
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To Hover is Divine
Hang in there all the DHL boys, there is lot's of light at the end of the tunnel. Soon we will get rid of the bonus greedy Directors and Rambo Managers and channel the correct money to the special boys doing the actual job. It is going to be worth waiting for.
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DHL pilots resigning
Things are starting to get so bad at DHL Bahrain, that pilots are starting to resign on a regular basis even if they don't have another job lined up. Like they say, you can always get another flying job, but you can't get another life or body part
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First, I'm curious on how the heck they get insurance cover on the aircraft...I don't think even Lloyd's would write cover! Also, (and much more importantly) what about aircrew insurance cover?!
As for going into a war zone, I think we all know that this ain't new. During Vietnam, my father was chief engineer on tankers hauling a few bajillion gallons of avgas up the saigon river. He told me that all the way up to the port, he would hear bullets pinging off the hull, they were hit by RPG's and had a few morter rounds splash river water all over them. He DID get hazard pay, but he also had a really, really good union behind him.
For the comment about a morter hit on an aircraft stand (when the A/C was not there, thank God)...I would think that they would move the parking stands around? Otherwise, all someone needs to do is survey the sites for the morter teams and BOOM!
Stay safe guys!
As for going into a war zone, I think we all know that this ain't new. During Vietnam, my father was chief engineer on tankers hauling a few bajillion gallons of avgas up the saigon river. He told me that all the way up to the port, he would hear bullets pinging off the hull, they were hit by RPG's and had a few morter rounds splash river water all over them. He DID get hazard pay, but he also had a really, really good union behind him.
For the comment about a morter hit on an aircraft stand (when the A/C was not there, thank God)...I would think that they would move the parking stands around? Otherwise, all someone needs to do is survey the sites for the morter teams and BOOM!
Stay safe guys!
This is difficult to believe. One terrible hit a few years ago with a Stinger SAM, + or - some Katyushas or RPGs are not enough?
Why cannot DHL pilots stand together and say NO flights to/from Iraq? If Iraq is safe, then why refuse ANY aircraft-anywhere-due to an inop APU, generator (in bad weather), anti-skid or auto-press. system?
Why add ANY extra contingency fuel for weather or a closed runway?
Safety is no longer the clear priority.
How many pilots there have children?
They will visit one or two of you and leave flowers on your grave: Blumen auf dem Grab hinterlassen. Will your life insurance pay your family well if you are killed in a war zone?
Who will your widowed wife marry and sleep with after they lower your tight coffin deep into the ground?
Schlaf gut da unten bei den Wurmen im Sarg.
European girls are often quite attraktive.
In the late 80s or early 90's, a civilian Transamerica Airlines (L-382) C-130 was approaching a mining strip in western Africa (Zaire?). The "pro-western" guerrillas (Unitas?) got excited and shot up the plane. It started a fire which created lots of smoke after landing. The First Officer died in the plane, but the others rode hundreds of miles simply to find an airport somewhere to go home. Transamerica had never installed the proper radio on board which thereby prevented the crew from chatting with the mining strip about the situation.
See my point? Those were "pro-western" guerrillas-the good guys.
Good luck in Baghdad.
Goeden Avond Neil Arm.
Why cannot DHL pilots stand together and say NO flights to/from Iraq? If Iraq is safe, then why refuse ANY aircraft-anywhere-due to an inop APU, generator (in bad weather), anti-skid or auto-press. system?
Why add ANY extra contingency fuel for weather or a closed runway?
Safety is no longer the clear priority.
How many pilots there have children?
They will visit one or two of you and leave flowers on your grave: Blumen auf dem Grab hinterlassen. Will your life insurance pay your family well if you are killed in a war zone?
Who will your widowed wife marry and sleep with after they lower your tight coffin deep into the ground?
Schlaf gut da unten bei den Wurmen im Sarg. European girls are often quite attraktive.
In the late 80s or early 90's, a civilian Transamerica Airlines (L-382) C-130 was approaching a mining strip in western Africa (Zaire?). The "pro-western" guerrillas (Unitas?) got excited and shot up the plane. It started a fire which created lots of smoke after landing. The First Officer died in the plane, but the others rode hundreds of miles simply to find an airport somewhere to go home. Transamerica had never installed the proper radio on board which thereby prevented the crew from chatting with the mining strip about the situation.
See my point? Those were "pro-western" guerrillas-the good guys.
Good luck in Baghdad.
Goeden Avond Neil Arm.
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ref. to reply # 34
Is it a fact or rumour that the greedy managers will be fired soon?
Which managers are you referring to, the Middle East ones or the European?
There is certainly the same breed at work in BAH, BRU or EMA.
My suggestion: Inform the big boss of DPWN or the supervisary board of DP in Bonn and tell them what`s going on in the famous world of DHL.
Cheers
Which managers are you referring to, the Middle East ones or the European?
There is certainly the same breed at work in BAH, BRU or EMA.
My suggestion: Inform the big boss of DPWN or the supervisary board of DP in Bonn and tell them what`s going on in the famous world of DHL.
Cheers
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To Hover is Divine
Not a fact yet, but will soon be, definitely the under qualified clowns in Bahrain. What is happening there is f criminal and they must think they are dealing with slaves. One thing they have to realise that a first officer in a spiral descent with 19 targets on the TCAS AND THE RANGE SET AS 10 MILES, makes more quality decisions in that descent than they would ever make in their entire career.
Watch the press!
criminal and they must think they are dealing with slaves. One thing they have to realise that a first officer in a spiral descent with 19 targets on the TCAS AND THE RANGE SET AS 10 MILES, makes more quality decisions in that descent than they would ever make in their entire career.Watch the press!
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Why did these people volenteer to work out there then???, they knew the areas into which they would be flying.
MONEY. Bottom line.
They now see what has been an everday occurrance for the past four years as an excuse to push for even more money. Its all well and good trying to pass the blame on everyone else. Hello, take a good look in the mirror. Thats right, theres the reason, you and your greed took you out to those places.
As a previous poster mentioned no one is dragging you into the flight decks to fly, you chose to fly.
No point in whinging about it, when you only have yourselves to blame..
MONEY. Bottom line.
They now see what has been an everday occurrance for the past four years as an excuse to push for even more money. Its all well and good trying to pass the blame on everyone else. Hello, take a good look in the mirror. Thats right, theres the reason, you and your greed took you out to those places.
As a previous poster mentioned no one is dragging you into the flight decks to fly, you chose to fly.
No point in whinging about it, when you only have yourselves to blame..
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Things can be done if the danger can be assessed. Apparently several measurements were in place after the A300 attack, and the danger was "minimal" . As later the whole safety measures proof minimal, uneffective or none existing, and the security and ATC proves a laugh, people want to leave. Normal. By now this must be clear to all pilots operating there. A few years back it still had to be discovered, by experience.