Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Jose
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Empirical tests have shown me that an empty water bottle in the top of a carry-on goes through security just fine, at least in all the places I've tried it, and then merely needs filling up at a water fountain once airside.
The first time I did it accidentally and was surprised, then it turned into a more deliberate test. There should be no reason to consider an empty bottle a hazard, seeing as I can buy a bottle once past security and empty the contents to achieve the same result.
The first time I did it accidentally and was surprised, then it turned into a more deliberate test. There should be no reason to consider an empty bottle a hazard, seeing as I can buy a bottle once past security and empty the contents to achieve the same result.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: uk
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could he tell us what the point is in subjecting UK Nationals/Residents to the extra hassle of the UK CRC process?
Join Date: Oct 2007
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East Midlands
I worked in the Termianal at EMA for 3 months. I wasn't permitted to work longer as I wasn't an EU citizen. (Aussie) Was told that because I couldn't have a thorough background check I couldn't get a premanent pass. Obviously 10 years in Aussie Navy with a top secret clearance wasn't enough.
Getting back to the thread, the lorry drivers delivering the food and drinks to the terminal weren't checked at all! You cant take a bottle of water through security but the delivery guy could give you a bottle full of acid at the delivery dock no questions asked. What the hell is going on here?
I asked the police who patrolled the airport what was going on and I was told to mind my own business.
Getting back to the thread, the lorry drivers delivering the food and drinks to the terminal weren't checked at all! You cant take a bottle of water through security but the delivery guy could give you a bottle full of acid at the delivery dock no questions asked. What the hell is going on here?
I asked the police who patrolled the airport what was going on and I was told to mind my own business.
@ 737 Jock:
One particular company with a particular colour goes the extra mile and also check the history in your home country, more hassle but worth its while as far as I'm concerned.
My previous UK employer, who doesn't exist anymore but flew with a flag on its tale didn't. As far as they were concerned it was a matter of ticking the box and nothing else, so who knows what the background of their foreign pilots was... We all agreed this was a joke, but then again so many things regarding security and aviation on this island are..... But thats a different thread I suppose
One particular company with a particular colour goes the extra mile and also check the history in your home country, more hassle but worth its while as far as I'm concerned.
My previous UK employer, who doesn't exist anymore but flew with a flag on its tale didn't. As far as they were concerned it was a matter of ticking the box and nothing else, so who knows what the background of their foreign pilots was... We all agreed this was a joke, but then again so many things regarding security and aviation on this island are..... But thats a different thread I suppose
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Stockholm Sweden
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I work at Stockholm ARN, and we frequently have to request airside passes for Brits and other foreigners. The CAA here send a request to their home country for clearance before issuing a pass. For a Swede I can get an airside pass in 4 days. For a Brit it takes 6 weeks.
Join Date: May 2005
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Two colleauges of mine went to pick up a prisoner from Scotland and fly him back down to London on Tuesday ( we are all police officers ). What they told me shocked me somewhat regarding their experience at LGW. Suffice to say, I no longer feel that confident with Airport Security. I don't really want to repeat on this board what they told me, but it beggers belief.
This is in relation to airport security, not in flight security
This is in relation to airport security, not in flight security
Join Date: May 2008
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The lorry drivers weren't checked - but the guy receiving them and working airside would have been.
The point is: There is not point delivering ACID if no one can get it onto the plane...unless you are considering the possibility that an airside worker who has passed the security vetting is going to do the wrong thing.
Count yourself lucky that you were allowed to work for 3 months in a country's most important infrastructure - their airport. If I had my way no foreign nationals would be employed inside security areas at airports (0bviously discounting aircrew etc)
You cant stop everything, but you can at least make it harder for people to commit criminal/terrorist acts.
I find it somewhat amazing the number of people in these forums who criticise security measures designed to help make them safer (even if the measures have some shortcomings).
The point is: There is not point delivering ACID if no one can get it onto the plane...unless you are considering the possibility that an airside worker who has passed the security vetting is going to do the wrong thing.
Count yourself lucky that you were allowed to work for 3 months in a country's most important infrastructure - their airport. If I had my way no foreign nationals would be employed inside security areas at airports (0bviously discounting aircrew etc)
You cant stop everything, but you can at least make it harder for people to commit criminal/terrorist acts.
I find it somewhat amazing the number of people in these forums who criticise security measures designed to help make them safer (even if the measures have some shortcomings).
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I dont think the greatest threat comes from foreign nationals Ozfed , i think it lies with British nationals of foreign decent , were for eg three out four of the London bombers not British nationals of Pakistani decent?
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Very slight thread creep, but hey its a good rant anyway.... Recently went to the good ole US of A
I have an Apic card so even when not flying I can use the APIC line which often doubles as the crew line at this airport. A shortish queue at immigration but only one person in the Crew/Apic line (a fellow pilot in uniform). He goes through and the immigration off says "crew only" to which I reply "ah yes but I have an APIC card". "but its not open today" says he.. to which I reply, "well why is the sign up then". He then trumps me with the "get back in the queue where I told you to go or I'll get security" number.. nice.
Luckily for me the immigration hall is now full with all the united nations so it takes me over an hour to get through. I would have phoned the person meeting me to tell them I was going to be late.. but oh.. I can't use my mobile whilst standing in a queue in immigration.
Finally through immigration and I head to customs. Now for context I have a CPL but its not what I do for a day job. Get pulled for the routine search and inspector Clouseau pulls out the VFR chart for New York. What's this says he... er its a map says I... I know that but what sort of map is it? An aviation chart says I.. Why do you have one of those says he.. er because I am a pilot says I..
Now he is on the verge of the big breakthrough and says with barely concealed glee... But you said on your form that you were a banker do you know it is a federal offence to lie on a customs declaration
I then have to resist the temptation to point out that your day job and your qualifications are not mutually exclusive and that for example he could be .. at the same time.. a customs officer and an idiot...
It's so good you couldn't make it up..
I have an Apic card so even when not flying I can use the APIC line which often doubles as the crew line at this airport. A shortish queue at immigration but only one person in the Crew/Apic line (a fellow pilot in uniform). He goes through and the immigration off says "crew only" to which I reply "ah yes but I have an APIC card". "but its not open today" says he.. to which I reply, "well why is the sign up then". He then trumps me with the "get back in the queue where I told you to go or I'll get security" number.. nice.
Luckily for me the immigration hall is now full with all the united nations so it takes me over an hour to get through. I would have phoned the person meeting me to tell them I was going to be late.. but oh.. I can't use my mobile whilst standing in a queue in immigration.
Finally through immigration and I head to customs. Now for context I have a CPL but its not what I do for a day job. Get pulled for the routine search and inspector Clouseau pulls out the VFR chart for New York. What's this says he... er its a map says I... I know that but what sort of map is it? An aviation chart says I.. Why do you have one of those says he.. er because I am a pilot says I..
Now he is on the verge of the big breakthrough and says with barely concealed glee... But you said on your form that you were a banker do you know it is a federal offence to lie on a customs declaration
I then have to resist the temptation to point out that your day job and your qualifications are not mutually exclusive and that for example he could be .. at the same time.. a customs officer and an idiot...
It's so good you couldn't make it up..
Last edited by generalspecific; 16th May 2008 at 00:27. Reason: Cos i carent spele
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Latest in Rediculus
Even worse was this comment:
So security are there to stop people being 'upset.'
Plo nkers!
A BAA spokesman said there was no record of the incident and no "formal complaint" had been made.
"If a T-shirt had a rude word or a bomb on it, for example, a passenger may be asked to remove it," he said.
"We are investigating what happened to see if it came under this category.
"If it's offensive, we don't want other passengers upset."
"If a T-shirt had a rude word or a bomb on it, for example, a passenger may be asked to remove it," he said.
"We are investigating what happened to see if it came under this category.
"If it's offensive, we don't want other passengers upset."
Plo nkers!
Join Date: Jul 2000
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The irony is they upset people everyday with their dozy attitudes and ignorant behaviour. Security in the UK airports is a disgrace.
If he hadn't removed it what would they have done? Called the police? Then it would have got really interesting if the police had carried on in the same way. What would they have charged him with? Answer ...nothing that would stand up in a court.
Does anybody know somebody who would be 'upset' by a Transformers T-shirt? Does anybody know anybody who would be upset by being treated in this way by 'security' staff? Security is not a game. If an aircraft is hijacked/bombed and it is mine I will probably lose my life. Could 'security' staff please do their job please and stop this nonsense. They are making fools of themselves.
If he hadn't removed it what would they have done? Called the police? Then it would have got really interesting if the police had carried on in the same way. What would they have charged him with? Answer ...nothing that would stand up in a court.
Does anybody know somebody who would be 'upset' by a Transformers T-shirt? Does anybody know anybody who would be upset by being treated in this way by 'security' staff? Security is not a game. If an aircraft is hijacked/bombed and it is mine I will probably lose my life. Could 'security' staff please do their job please and stop this nonsense. They are making fools of themselves.
Last edited by hotmetal; 2nd Jun 2008 at 16:42.
Join Date: May 2007
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On a light-hearted note, my sister was coming back from Turkey a couple of weeks ago with her 4 yr old son. Granny had bought him a star wars gun & something that looked like a litter picker upper. They both had the noises and flashing lights that you would obviously need to fight a battle in space. Naturally, they were stopped at security & the nice chaps decided that these lethal weapons should be confiscated, having tried them out. Apparently, the LPU was tested on hand luggage to see how strong it was. The gun was fired but curiously nothing blew up & nobody fell over. The noises and lights were deemed lethal. Young nephew was curious as to why his toys were disappearing & my sis, not entirely happy with proceedings, decided to tell him that the men were taking them away & not giving them back. This produced the intended result, loud wailing. Naughty old Sis eh?
So picture the scene...2 burly securtiy types armed with plastic weapons going phweee phweee, complete wih flashing red lights & add to the mix one teary, red faced (& probably snotty) 4 year old shrieking very, very loudly. Realising this is a serious issue, the head of security is summoned. He then tests these lethal weapons (presumably in a very safe fashion) but still isn't happy. Now the flight deck is consulted & the offending articles are whisked off to be looked after by the very nice man who is flying the plane & handed back at the end of the flight packaged beautifully in a plastic bag. All's well that ends well eh?
I know this is off topic, forgive me but felt you needed to know about this new breed of 4 year old assassin. It's scary out there folks.
So picture the scene...2 burly securtiy types armed with plastic weapons going phweee phweee, complete wih flashing red lights & add to the mix one teary, red faced (& probably snotty) 4 year old shrieking very, very loudly. Realising this is a serious issue, the head of security is summoned. He then tests these lethal weapons (presumably in a very safe fashion) but still isn't happy. Now the flight deck is consulted & the offending articles are whisked off to be looked after by the very nice man who is flying the plane & handed back at the end of the flight packaged beautifully in a plastic bag. All's well that ends well eh?
I know this is off topic, forgive me but felt you needed to know about this new breed of 4 year old assassin. It's scary out there folks.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Jeez, they didn't hand the star wars gun to the Captain, did they?! Imagine what he might have done - could have hijacked his own plane, or crashed it, or something....
I hope the Captain was duly stood down afterwards for having a prohibited item on the flight-deck.... I would have turned myself in immediately.
Yes, something scary really is going on out there.
I hope the Captain was duly stood down afterwards for having a prohibited item on the flight-deck.... I would have turned myself in immediately.
Yes, something scary really is going on out there.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I have a question.....
Earthquake Bam Iran 2003 = 20 000+ dead
Tsunami 2004 = 250 000+ dead
Katrina 2005 = 1500+ dead
Myanmar 2008 = 20 000+ dead
Earthquake China 2008 = 40 000+ dead
So 330 000+ dead in the last 5 years to natural disasters
Who knows how many dead from the common old flu, car accidents, violent weather, starvation, heart attacks, crime, war etc etc......
USA 9/11 2001 = 2973 dead
London 7/7 2005 = 52 dead
Madrid 11/3 2004 = 191 dead
So 3000+ dead from terrorism in the west in the last 8 years.
May they all rest in peace and God(In His/Her various forms)comfort their families.
So tell me
WHY ARE WE FRIGHTENED OF TERRORISTS????????
And why do we put up with the idiotic so called security measures we have forced on us and all the other things since 9/11. Nearly every day now some power that be, wants to impose some new fascist control on us to PROTECT us. It really is starting to feel like Germany in the 30's
The only certainty in life is death, we don't know where, and we don't when and God willing it is painless.
Earthquake Bam Iran 2003 = 20 000+ dead
Tsunami 2004 = 250 000+ dead
Katrina 2005 = 1500+ dead
Myanmar 2008 = 20 000+ dead
Earthquake China 2008 = 40 000+ dead
So 330 000+ dead in the last 5 years to natural disasters
Who knows how many dead from the common old flu, car accidents, violent weather, starvation, heart attacks, crime, war etc etc......
USA 9/11 2001 = 2973 dead
London 7/7 2005 = 52 dead
Madrid 11/3 2004 = 191 dead
So 3000+ dead from terrorism in the west in the last 8 years.
May they all rest in peace and God(In His/Her various forms)comfort their families.
So tell me
WHY ARE WE FRIGHTENED OF TERRORISTS????????
And why do we put up with the idiotic so called security measures we have forced on us and all the other things since 9/11. Nearly every day now some power that be, wants to impose some new fascist control on us to PROTECT us. It really is starting to feel like Germany in the 30's
The only certainty in life is death, we don't know where, and we don't when and God willing it is painless.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Didn't a recent CHIRP article list an address/email/website where examples of poor application of security could be reported to the CAA for them to log and look into?
If anyone still has the last CHIRP could you post the address here?
If anyone still has the last CHIRP could you post the address here?
Join Date: Oct 2002
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It's just such a crying shame that all of this crap has nothing to do with security. It's a metaphor for the UK today. We are busy removing dignity from aircrew and disturbing their state of mind for the purposes of political window dressing.
Meanwhile, those same looney lefties are tiptoeing around the real threat, knawing their knuckles that they might offend the wrong group of people when they really want to strike the next blow in their class war. Those middle class inky swot pilots so typical of the privileged upbringing available to the bourgeois, but an occupation denied to the prodigy of the sink estates and failing education experiment of New UK.
Sorry. I can't come up with any practical suggestions, but I'm afraid that logic, pragmatism, and common sense have no place in Britain today.
Meanwhile, those same looney lefties are tiptoeing around the real threat, knawing their knuckles that they might offend the wrong group of people when they really want to strike the next blow in their class war. Those middle class inky swot pilots so typical of the privileged upbringing available to the bourgeois, but an occupation denied to the prodigy of the sink estates and failing education experiment of New UK.
Sorry. I can't come up with any practical suggestions, but I'm afraid that logic, pragmatism, and common sense have no place in Britain today.