kenya airlines 737-800 missing
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Short Field Performance Variant?
All - as a matter of interest was this aircraft the SFP variant of the -800? I ask the question due the the "Emergency" Alert SB issued recently concerning the spoiler actuators and uncommanded "hardovers"? Two of which have been reported leading to the SB.
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I dont discount weather at all.....in fact I think it is a real possibility.....but not to cause 2 flame-outs, and I still think it very unlikely that this was an A/P failure followed by dissorientation......and I hape for the sake of the crews family that I am right
Like I said for my money it would have to have been sudden and very serious
Like I said for my money it would have to have been sudden and very serious
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Cytherea,
Point taken. I only wanted to say that aircraft have been lost through disorientation, but was trying to avoid any politics by naming operators...CRM skills etc. I have no wish or desire to speculate on what happened here, and shall await the investigation results.
Point taken. I only wanted to say that aircraft have been lost through disorientation, but was trying to avoid any politics by naming operators...CRM skills etc. I have no wish or desire to speculate on what happened here, and shall await the investigation results.
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the Nairobi-bound Boeing 737-800 sent a distress signal shortly after takeoff from Douala early Saturday
Was it a distress radio call by the crew?
Or was it an automatic Emergency Locator Transmitter signal?
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Apparently the distress signal was ELT one and there was no call as well as loss of communication.
If the engines lost power to whatever reason, crew had at least a moment or so to make a report or mayday call “while trying to return to the airport”. Instead was nothing.
More likely radios failed for some reason (like lightning strike) as well as EFIS leading to disorientation in IMC and night leading to nose dive (and engines running).
Could have lightning strike (and there were A LOT of them that night) affected ELT operation too? It was reported a brief signal and then nothing. Signal was so brief that it was located and plotted at the wrong place…
If the engines lost power to whatever reason, crew had at least a moment or so to make a report or mayday call “while trying to return to the airport”. Instead was nothing.
More likely radios failed for some reason (like lightning strike) as well as EFIS leading to disorientation in IMC and night leading to nose dive (and engines running).
Could have lightning strike (and there were A LOT of them that night) affected ELT operation too? It was reported a brief signal and then nothing. Signal was so brief that it was located and plotted at the wrong place…
Last edited by Very_Low_and_Fast; 8th May 2007 at 15:19.
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"The last words from the pilot were (apparently)....'we are in trouble' "
I think that was reported by the press when the airplane first went missing. Probably can be dismissed.
I think that was reported by the press when the airplane first went missing. Probably can be dismissed.
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having flown myself few times talking to Duala approach, bear in mind that just because a radio distress transmission wasn't aknowledged, or recieved, doesn't mean the pilots didn't transmit one. RT over there ain't the best in the world. I have droned around that area for a while trying to get an acknowledgement to an RT request.
Also I concur with the previous coments regarding upset recovery. I've just been through Jet upset training in the sim (757) and it gets out of hand very very very quickly. Before you know whats happening you can easily be past Vmo / Mmo heading down with very very few options left.
Anyone who thinks that disorientation isn't an issue has obviously never taken off into a big black hole (basically anywhere in africa at night!) on instruments.
Just because it appears to have happened suddenly doesn't imply a dramatic failure. Unusual attitudes at this altidue (<10000ft probably judging by the distance reported) get out of hand very quickly. Look at the reconstruction and report on the Sharm accident if you don't understand the physics and energy involved.
I'm not implying any cause for this accident, just saying don't dismiss anything because of comments about RT and erronious assumptions about unusual attitudes /disorientation
Also I concur with the previous coments regarding upset recovery. I've just been through Jet upset training in the sim (757) and it gets out of hand very very very quickly. Before you know whats happening you can easily be past Vmo / Mmo heading down with very very few options left.
Anyone who thinks that disorientation isn't an issue has obviously never taken off into a big black hole (basically anywhere in africa at night!) on instruments.
Just because it appears to have happened suddenly doesn't imply a dramatic failure. Unusual attitudes at this altidue (<10000ft probably judging by the distance reported) get out of hand very quickly. Look at the reconstruction and report on the Sharm accident if you don't understand the physics and energy involved.
I'm not implying any cause for this accident, just saying don't dismiss anything because of comments about RT and erronious assumptions about unusual attitudes /disorientation
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I wonder what else he heard...?
Kenya: KQ Crash Pilot's Last Words
The Nation (Nairobi)
Nation Team And Agencies
Nairobi
The dramatic last moments of the doomed Kenya Airways plane were captured by four chilling words from the pilot: "We are in trouble".
Captain Francis Mbatia Wamwea's desperate plea was radioed to the control tower at Douala International Airport, Cameroon, moments before the plane crashed into a dense forest, apparently killing all 114 aboard.
According to Douala governor Gounouko Hawonaye, the words were the last to be received at the Douala control tower.
Yesterday, 40 bodies were pulled out of the wreckage of flight KQ 507. The badly damaged and decomposing bodies were packed in body bags before being collected by the Red Cross and the military........
I wonder what else he heard...?
Kenya: KQ Crash Pilot's Last Words
The Nation (Nairobi)
Nation Team And Agencies
Nairobi
The dramatic last moments of the doomed Kenya Airways plane were captured by four chilling words from the pilot: "We are in trouble".
Captain Francis Mbatia Wamwea's desperate plea was radioed to the control tower at Douala International Airport, Cameroon, moments before the plane crashed into a dense forest, apparently killing all 114 aboard.
According to Douala governor Gounouko Hawonaye, the words were the last to be received at the Douala control tower.
Yesterday, 40 bodies were pulled out of the wreckage of flight KQ 507. The badly damaged and decomposing bodies were packed in body bags before being collected by the Red Cross and the military........
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Captain Francis Mbatia Wamwea's desperate plea ... "We are in trouble" ....
Let's hope we will be able to establish what REALLY happened.
And let's hope that if there are lessons to be learned from what happened, that those lessons will REALLY be learned.
May they rest in peace.....
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From http://www.eastandard.net/hm_news/ne...eid=1143968322 :
Dr Mutua also criticised media reports that the pilot of the ill-fated plane issued a distress statement before the signal was lost.
“We have been informed by Cameroon’s civil aviation Authority that the media reports are not accurate. According to the authority, the last communication with the tower by the Kenya Airways pilot was his response acknowledging a takeoff instruction from the tower,” Mutua said.
“We have been informed by Cameroon’s civil aviation Authority that the media reports are not accurate. According to the authority, the last communication with the tower by the Kenya Airways pilot was his response acknowledging a takeoff instruction from the tower,” Mutua said.
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Short Field Performance Variant?
Cytherea asked:
I believe that it was not an SFP as
Clearly, from this list 5Y-KYA was NOT an SFP (as all the GOL's 737-800's evidently are)
However it is interesting to note that, on a quick head-count, 12 out of 78 737-800 AD's are related to elevators or elevator tabs. May well be more than 12, as AD descriptions often belie what's in their content.
Edited to add: "I'm also reading that the wreckage location is only about 5kms from the end of the runway at Douala".
.
CITING: <<It took the authorities nearly 48 hours to locate the crash site, a delay that has come in for some heavy criticism, especially after it emerged that the the plane had gone down almost immediately after take-off.
.
"We are talking about 30 seconds, so it had just lifted off," Kenya Airways chief pilot Captain James Ouma told a news conference in Nairobi.
He gave the precise location of the site as just 5,42km from the end of the runway.>>
All - as a matter of interest was this aircraft the SFP variant of the -800? I ask the question due the the "Emergency" Alert SB issued recently concerning the spoiler actuators and uncommanded "hardovers"? Two of which have been reported leading to the SB.
Clearly, from this list 5Y-KYA was NOT an SFP (as all the GOL's 737-800's evidently are)
However it is interesting to note that, on a quick head-count, 12 out of 78 737-800 AD's are related to elevators or elevator tabs. May well be more than 12, as AD descriptions often belie what's in their content.
Edited to add: "I'm also reading that the wreckage location is only about 5kms from the end of the runway at Douala".
.
CITING: <<It took the authorities nearly 48 hours to locate the crash site, a delay that has come in for some heavy criticism, especially after it emerged that the the plane had gone down almost immediately after take-off.
.
"We are talking about 30 seconds, so it had just lifted off," Kenya Airways chief pilot Captain James Ouma told a news conference in Nairobi.
He gave the precise location of the site as just 5,42km from the end of the runway.>>
Last edited by Dagger Dirk; 9th May 2007 at 05:17.
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Wow if that location is accurate then all the previous press including recent reports and pictures of the crash site and its location is a bunch of junk....seems hard to believe.
Also if it is 5km (about 3 nm) from the runway that puts a whole new spin on the ball.....and I would guess it opens up a whole new bunch of possible scenarios.
Hope they get data recorders properly processed the investigation done by someone who knows what they are doing.
Also if it is 5km (about 3 nm) from the runway that puts a whole new spin on the ball.....and I would guess it opens up a whole new bunch of possible scenarios.
Hope they get data recorders properly processed the investigation done by someone who knows what they are doing.
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The recorders appear to be going to Canada for analysis as it's seen as a neutral country.( US - home of Boeing, EU - home of Airbus - Boeing rivalry)
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DD that 5.42km does not seem right. At 5.42nm that would put it near the original estimated position: about 20km SE of the airport.
Gosh, so close to the airport; somebody should have seen or heard something.
Tragic, never the less!!
Gosh, so close to the airport; somebody should have seen or heard something.
Tragic, never the less!!
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But if 30s airborne, then 5km sounds right.
Casts doubt on that doubtful "vertical entry" rumour early.
Still - how can anyone miss seeing the crash while so early in the climb - just how bad was the weather?
Casts doubt on that doubtful "vertical entry" rumour early.
Still - how can anyone miss seeing the crash while so early in the climb - just how bad was the weather?
Combine Operations
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Various reports mention particularly heavy rain. I've known rain stopping play in Douala before - like reducing visibility to less than 200m. Unless you experience it you cannot imagine what that is like, and how much noise it makes. Close to the airport, a lot of the accommodation is corrugated iron shacks - you wouldn't hear the neighbours setting off a bomb in weather like that.
I imagine the aircraft would disappear into low cloud shortly after take-off, even if the runway had been visible from the tower, so its crash would be unseen and unheard. Let's hope we find the answers.
I've just learned that there were several friends of a friend on board.
R.I.P. à tous.
I imagine the aircraft would disappear into low cloud shortly after take-off, even if the runway had been visible from the tower, so its crash would be unseen and unheard. Let's hope we find the answers.
I've just learned that there were several friends of a friend on board.
R.I.P. à tous.
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