The "Crew Security" Thread (merged)
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Benoni (JNB),South Africa
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Crew Security Clearances South African Style
I've recently had to apply for an airside pass at JNB. Had to fill in a form and give permission for the South African Police Services and their minions to do a background check for a criminal record amongst, God knows what, other things.
The self same Police Service is headed by a National Commissioner, who has publicly gone on record as being a good personal friend of a South African "businessman," ("they often drink tea together"), currently under house arrest and facing a murder rap as well as illegal drug smuggling (R250 million, a new SA record I believe) charges.
The accused is using him as a character reference and the commissioner has supported his "friend" in his endevours before the courts. The really scary thing is that he sees nothing wrong (Hello! Conflict of interest.) with this scenario and neither do his bosses, the Minister of Safety and Security as well as the President.
The lunatics are definitely running the asylum around here. "Viva ANC viva!" "Amandla!" and all that other cr*p. Sleep tight South Africa, your police force is on guard!
The self same Police Service is headed by a National Commissioner, who has publicly gone on record as being a good personal friend of a South African "businessman," ("they often drink tea together"), currently under house arrest and facing a murder rap as well as illegal drug smuggling (R250 million, a new SA record I believe) charges.
The accused is using him as a character reference and the commissioner has supported his "friend" in his endevours before the courts. The really scary thing is that he sees nothing wrong (Hello! Conflict of interest.) with this scenario and neither do his bosses, the Minister of Safety and Security as well as the President.
The lunatics are definitely running the asylum around here. "Viva ANC viva!" "Amandla!" and all that other cr*p. Sleep tight South Africa, your police force is on guard!
Cabin Baggage Positioning Crews
Positioned through Gatwick yesterday. At long last more than one bag rule has been implemented by BAA security. Passed through with 'wheely bag and flight bag, with no problem.
Does anybody happen to know where I can find the latest DfT guidance with regard to positioning before or after a duty?
Somebody told me a while ago that we as crew can use the staff security checkpoints if we position (home) within 24 hours of any flying duty. I am know trying to find where this is exactly written down but the DfT doesn't really offer me any help......
Somebody told me a while ago that we as crew can use the staff security checkpoints if we position (home) within 24 hours of any flying duty. I am know trying to find where this is exactly written down but the DfT doesn't really offer me any help......
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
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I quit
After three attempts, I finally did retire. Now sleep soundly at night, at home in my own bed, instead of staring blearily at the rising/setting sun. Don't have nightmares about getting through JFK (Immigration won't let you in; Security won't let you out). Don't have to eat junk meals, stay in junk hotels and perpetually dispute the roster with some mean-minded lamebrain in crewing. Enough. Good luck, people.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: uk
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Still can not use the staff channel at LGW. They know all about it but BAA will not authorise the use for crew.
For Flight Crew with a ‘Full UK issued ID Card;
Operating, Positioning and Commuting crew will, providing they are travelling within the 24 hour period preceding or following a duty - be treated as ‘staff’ ie Operating Flight Crew, for the purpose of security screening. (ie you will be allowed more than one bag through security – essentially as if you are operating)
You do not have to be in uniform but - You must have with you and display, your ID Card. You should be able to provide evidence of your roster. (This should only be requested by security staff to check that you are indeed travelling within 24H of a duty as above, or if there is any doubt as to your status in relation to this).
In addition;
Crew should, where possible - use a ‘Staff or Crew channel’.
Have not tried 2 bags.
For Flight Crew with a ‘Full UK issued ID Card;
Operating, Positioning and Commuting crew will, providing they are travelling within the 24 hour period preceding or following a duty - be treated as ‘staff’ ie Operating Flight Crew, for the purpose of security screening. (ie you will be allowed more than one bag through security – essentially as if you are operating)
You do not have to be in uniform but - You must have with you and display, your ID Card. You should be able to provide evidence of your roster. (This should only be requested by security staff to check that you are indeed travelling within 24H of a duty as above, or if there is any doubt as to your status in relation to this).
In addition;
Crew should, where possible - use a ‘Staff or Crew channel’.
Have not tried 2 bags.
@ Mike,
Thanks a lot for this information, very usefull indeed. I have managed on one occasion to get through staff security in the south terminal while positioning out on duty, this was in uniform and the security staff still weren't best pleased with my appearance.
I think I might e-mail this DfT guy and see what the actual score is for LGW. If I do get a reply before my planned retirement date I will let you guys know.
Thanks a lot for this information, very usefull indeed. I have managed on one occasion to get through staff security in the south terminal while positioning out on duty, this was in uniform and the security staff still weren't best pleased with my appearance.
I think I might e-mail this DfT guy and see what the actual score is for LGW. If I do get a reply before my planned retirement date I will let you guys know.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Europe
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Hi everybody,
My first post about "crew security". Until yesterday my opinion was : "I can not change, try to accept."
But yesterday I had the following experience:
I was positioning crew to London traveled with my ID in my neck. When I passed the security the passenger in front of me hade a small knife in his hand bag. Short discussion between the secutity guys, quickly compared the knife to ID card's size. To my surprise they accepted because it was shorter than ID card!!!
Of course no liquids allowed to bring with you because it is dangerous.
Anybody can tell me what is the maximum size of knife which is allowed on board?
Thanks forward
My first post about "crew security". Until yesterday my opinion was : "I can not change, try to accept."
But yesterday I had the following experience:
I was positioning crew to London traveled with my ID in my neck. When I passed the security the passenger in front of me hade a small knife in his hand bag. Short discussion between the secutity guys, quickly compared the knife to ID card's size. To my surprise they accepted because it was shorter than ID card!!!
Of course no liquids allowed to bring with you because it is dangerous.
Anybody can tell me what is the maximum size of knife which is allowed on board?
Thanks forward
2 Bags as Pos Crew
Been through LGW a number of times recently as pos crew with 2 bags. Not allowed to use Crew Channels but all OK through normal pax security, they know the rules.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: lgw
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Yes but since the latest edict by BAA anyone whose ID (uk or not) is not compatible ith BAA system (BA EASY ETC) then you are considered foreign crew and thus only have the privilages of normal pax when positioning.IE pax gates only and one bag.
Dontcha lov em
Dontcha lov em
bushbolox
Not true, in my experience at LGW and LHR. Although you cannot use crew channels unless you have 'resident crew ID' ie based at said airport. BAA will let you go through normal pax security with 2 bags with a crew ID (Mine is Farnborough)
Some times security helpers in initial screening unaware of new crew rule, ask for supervisor.
Had to convince one supervisor that Fboro was not RAF only, initally acused me of trying to abuse system!
Some times security helpers in initial screening unaware of new crew rule, ask for supervisor.
Had to convince one supervisor that Fboro was not RAF only, initally acused me of trying to abuse system!
bushbolux
My UK ID only swipes at my home airfield, that is why you go through pax security at BAA airport. The 2 bag rule does work, went through LGW pax security as positioning crew yesterday, no problem.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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The two bag rule doesn't work, as for example, an A320 overhead locker is for 9 peoples luggage - so 4 bags will fill it up - that's two peoples baggage
Handbaggage is the bain of most cabin crew's lives , airlines do not take the issue seriously and with short turnarounds many aircraft push back with people still standing up and bags unstowed due to crammed overhead lockers.
People should only be allowed 1 piece and 1 much smaller one that will fit under the seat.
There are many wheelies on the market that are oversized too - and only fit in the locker lengthways - this should be removed for the hold at the gate.
Handbaggage is the bain of most cabin crew's lives , airlines do not take the issue seriously and with short turnarounds many aircraft push back with people still standing up and bags unstowed due to crammed overhead lockers.
People should only be allowed 1 piece and 1 much smaller one that will fit under the seat.
There are many wheelies on the market that are oversized too - and only fit in the locker lengthways - this should be removed for the hold at the gate.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: head in the clouds
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No doubt that this has been found before this posting, but this piece published in the New Zealand Herald is interesting.
It is after a more general angle though, and not just crew, so apologies if I am posting it in the wrong place
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/...ectid=10483704
Text as below ( complete with original spelling, before someone pings that ) :
While I agree with most of the points the author raises, I can't in good conscious, support encouraging members of the public haggling their way past security check-points.
After all, they are their for a reason, we just wish that they were effective and efficient as well, ... don't we?
It is after a more general angle though, and not just crew, so apologies if I am posting it in the wrong place
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/...ectid=10483704
Text as below ( complete with original spelling, before someone pings that ) :
Airport security lines can annoy passengers, but there is no evidence that they make flying any safer, US researchers reported on Thursday.A team at the Harvard School of Public Health could not find any studies showing whether the time-consuming process of X-raying carry-on luggage prevents hijackings or attacks.
They also found no evidence to suggest that making passengers take off their shoes and confiscating small items prevented any incidents.
The US Transportation Security Administration told research teams requesting information their need for quick new security measures trumped the usefulness of evaluating them, Eleni Linos, Elizabeth Linos, and Graham Colditz reported in the British Medical Journal.
"We noticed that new airport screening protocols were implemented immediately after news reports of terror threats," they wrote.
"Even without clear evidence of the accuracy of testing, the Transportation Security Administration defended its measures by reporting that more than 13 million prohibited items were intercepted in one year," the researchers added. "Most of these illegal items were lighters."
The researchers said it would be interesting to apply medical standards to airport security. Screening programmes for illnesses like cancer are usually not broadly instituted unless they have been shown to work.
"We'd like airport security screening to be of value. As passengers and members of the public we'd like to know the evidence and the reasoning behind these measures," Linos said in a telephone interview.
With US$5.6 billion ($7.47 billion) spent globally on airport protection each year, the public should be encouraged to query some screening requirements - such as forcing passengers to remove their shoes, the researchers said.
"Can you hide anything in your shoes that you cannot hide in your underwear?" they asked.
A TSA spokesman was not immediately available to comment.
They also found no evidence to suggest that making passengers take off their shoes and confiscating small items prevented any incidents.
The US Transportation Security Administration told research teams requesting information their need for quick new security measures trumped the usefulness of evaluating them, Eleni Linos, Elizabeth Linos, and Graham Colditz reported in the British Medical Journal.
"We noticed that new airport screening protocols were implemented immediately after news reports of terror threats," they wrote.
"Even without clear evidence of the accuracy of testing, the Transportation Security Administration defended its measures by reporting that more than 13 million prohibited items were intercepted in one year," the researchers added. "Most of these illegal items were lighters."
The researchers said it would be interesting to apply medical standards to airport security. Screening programmes for illnesses like cancer are usually not broadly instituted unless they have been shown to work.
"We'd like airport security screening to be of value. As passengers and members of the public we'd like to know the evidence and the reasoning behind these measures," Linos said in a telephone interview.
With US$5.6 billion ($7.47 billion) spent globally on airport protection each year, the public should be encouraged to query some screening requirements - such as forcing passengers to remove their shoes, the researchers said.
"Can you hide anything in your shoes that you cannot hide in your underwear?" they asked.
A TSA spokesman was not immediately available to comment.
After all, they are their for a reason, we just wish that they were effective and efficient as well, ... don't we?
Join Date: Jul 2000
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and they lifted it from Reuters, which is a site I can recommend for impartial(ish) news.
http://www.reuters.com/article/basic...22861820071221
http://www.reuters.com/article/basic...22861820071221
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Rather useless, overall.
The whole thing reminds me about the madman in the asylum who kept clapping his hands all day. The new doctor asks why he does that.
"It's to keep the elephants away".
"But, but, there are no elephants here."
"See, it works!",
"It's to keep the elephants away".
"But, but, there are no elephants here."
"See, it works!",
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Ultimately airport security is a joke and complete WINDOW DRESSING. It is not in the least bit effective. Security checkpoints are there to make Granny flying once a year or so feel safe as she can actually SEE them doing something..
At the airport I work at, Security representatives (I wont call them "officers" as that implies a reasonable amount of training and expertise, let alone professionalism) ask you (staff at the staff channel) if they can inspect items at random (radio, jacket, folder, rucksack etc). This is not done for the sake of random inspections to thwart terrorist plots, to keep themselves and there procedures non-routine and unpredictable. No, this is done because the government has set them TARGETS of a certain number of items that they have to look at each bloody hour! They pick up a radio adn look at it in the most cursory way and say to there mate with the tally shhet "One radio..." They never look to see if it actually WORKS. For all they know it could be a bloody empty plastic case filled with semtex!
At the airport I work at, Security representatives (I wont call them "officers" as that implies a reasonable amount of training and expertise, let alone professionalism) ask you (staff at the staff channel) if they can inspect items at random (radio, jacket, folder, rucksack etc). This is not done for the sake of random inspections to thwart terrorist plots, to keep themselves and there procedures non-routine and unpredictable. No, this is done because the government has set them TARGETS of a certain number of items that they have to look at each bloody hour! They pick up a radio adn look at it in the most cursory way and say to there mate with the tally shhet "One radio..." They never look to see if it actually WORKS. For all they know it could be a bloody empty plastic case filled with semtex!