LoCo airlines busting minima in LVP's at STN?
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[QUOTE=JW411]the grim repa:
I don't think you read my post as well as you should have old son.
I said that by the time you are transferred to "Tower" and you have already passed the decision point and are then given RVRs that are below minimum then you may continue and land if it is possible. (The CAA used to qualify this as being 1000 feet above the runway).
So "Essex Radar/APC" have NOT kept you informed/up to date on current IRVRs then?
watp,iktch
I don't think you read my post as well as you should have old son.
I said that by the time you are transferred to "Tower" and you have already passed the decision point and are then given RVRs that are below minimum then you may continue and land if it is possible. (The CAA used to qualify this as being 1000 feet above the runway).
So "Essex Radar/APC" have NOT kept you informed/up to date on current IRVRs then?
watp,iktch
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[QUOTE=JW411]the grim repa:
I don't think you read my post as well as you should have old son.
I said that by the time you are transferred to "Tower" and you have already passed the decision point and are then given RVRs that are below minimum then you may continue and land if it is possible. (The CAA used to qualify this as being 1000 feet above the runway).
So "Essex Radar/APC" have NOT kept you informed/up to date on current IRVRs then?
watp,iktch
I don't think you read my post as well as you should have old son.
I said that by the time you are transferred to "Tower" and you have already passed the decision point and are then given RVRs that are below minimum then you may continue and land if it is possible. (The CAA used to qualify this as being 1000 feet above the runway).
So "Essex Radar/APC" have NOT kept you informed/up to date on current IRVRs then?
watp,iktch
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(The CAA used to qualify this as being 1000 feet above the runway).
8 Approach Ban -All Aircraft
8.1 The requirements for the commencement and continuation of an approach are defined in Articles 38, 39 and 40 of the Air Navigation Order 2000.
8.2 An aircraft may commence an instrument approach regardless of the reported RVR/Visibility but the approach shall not becontinued below 1000 ft above the aerodrome if the relevant RVR/Visibility for that runway is at the time less than the specified minimum for landing.
8.3 Where RVR is not available, RVR values may be derived by converting the reported visibility in accordance with paragraph 7.
8.4 If, after passing 1000 ft in accordance with paragraph 8.2, the reported RVR/Visibility falls below the applicable minimum, the approach may be continued to DA/H or MDA/H.
8.5 The approach may be continued below DA/H or MDA/H and the landing may be completed provided that the required visualreference is established at the DA/H or MDA/H and is maintained.
Aip AD 1-1-17
If you are passed to tower after passing 1000 feet then something has seriously gone wrong. The tower will asking radar for you long before this point. You wiil be given the RVR before you reach a 1000 feet agl, indeed usually on first contact with the tower. There is no excuse of saying that we had passed the decision point which is for these conditions 200 feet or so.
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(The CAA used to qualify this as being 1000 feet above the runway).
8 Approach Ban -All Aircraft
8.1 The requirements for the commencement and continuation of an approach are defined in Articles 38, 39 and 40 of the Air Navigation Order 2000.
8.2 An aircraft may commence an instrument approach regardless of the reported RVR/Visibility but the approach shall not becontinued below 1000 ft above the aerodrome if the relevant RVR/Visibility for that runway is at the time less than the specified minimum for landing.
8.3 Where RVR is not available, RVR values may be derived by converting the reported visibility in accordance with paragraph 7.
8.4 If, after passing 1000 ft in accordance with paragraph 8.2, the reported RVR/Visibility falls below the applicable minimum, the approach may be continued to DA/H or MDA/H.
8.5 The approach may be continued below DA/H or MDA/H and the landing may be completed provided that the required visualreference is established at the DA/H or MDA/H and is maintained.
Aip AD 1-1-17
If you are passed to tower after passing 1000 feet then something has seriously gone wrong. The tower will asking radar for you long before this point. You wiil be given the RVR before you reach a 1000 feet agl, indeed usually on first contact with the tower. There is no excuse of saying that we had passed the decision point which is for these conditions 200 feet or so.
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Looks to me like a Ryanair witchhunt !
Why ???
Well how about the fact that they are a massively successful airline that has shaken up and changed the industry, they deliver vast quantities of people all around Europe every day of the year safely and for reasonable cost?
Now that's bound to piss off a few people
even not factoring in possible cultural prejudices and petty jealousy
And no I don't work for them but I have flown with them a few times as a passenger. Not a fan of the airline because they are a bit too hard nosed but can't help noticing that they are thriving despite being under such minute scrutiny and as far as I am aware they have a good safety record.
And let's face it you don't just go to bed, wake up and find yourself suddenly transformed into a JAR 737 Captain
How come others are not "observed" with such interest ?
Why ???
Well how about the fact that they are a massively successful airline that has shaken up and changed the industry, they deliver vast quantities of people all around Europe every day of the year safely and for reasonable cost?
Now that's bound to piss off a few people
even not factoring in possible cultural prejudices and petty jealousyAnd no I don't work for them but I have flown with them a few times as a passenger. Not a fan of the airline because they are a bit too hard nosed but can't help noticing that they are thriving despite being under such minute scrutiny and as far as I am aware they have a good safety record.
And let's face it you don't just go to bed, wake up and find yourself suddenly transformed into a JAR 737 Captain
How come others are not "observed" with such interest ?
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Looks to me like a Ryanair witchhunt !
Why ???
Well how about the fact that they are a massively successful airline that has shaken up and changed the industry, they deliver vast quantities of people all around Europe every day of the year safely and for reasonable cost?
Now that's bound to piss off a few people even not factoring in possible cultural prejudices and petty jealousy
And no I don't work for them but I have flown with them a few times as a passenger. Not a fan of the airline because they are a bit too hard nosed but can't help noticing that they are thriving despite being under such minute scrutiny and as far as I am aware they have a good safety record.
And let's face it you don't just go to bed, wake up and find yourself suddenly transformed into a JAR 737 Captain
How come others are not "observed" with such interest ?
Why ???
Well how about the fact that they are a massively successful airline that has shaken up and changed the industry, they deliver vast quantities of people all around Europe every day of the year safely and for reasonable cost?
Now that's bound to piss off a few people
even not factoring in possible cultural prejudices and petty jealousyAnd no I don't work for them but I have flown with them a few times as a passenger. Not a fan of the airline because they are a bit too hard nosed but can't help noticing that they are thriving despite being under such minute scrutiny and as far as I am aware they have a good safety record.
And let's face it you don't just go to bed, wake up and find yourself suddenly transformed into a JAR 737 Captain
How come others are not "observed" with such interest ?
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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It seems to me that this is a good time for the IAA to do a full and detailed audit of the Ryanair operation at EGSS during this 36 hr. period.
They could examine the paperwork required for Cat 3 approaches (Do they have a Cat 3 minima card that allows their pilots to modify the minima in case of A/P and ground aid failures?).
The could check the training for low visibility approaches and refresher courses.
They could do a full audit of the duty and rest periods of all crews flying over that period. Were Minimum Rest periods compromised? If so by whom and on whose request.
They could examine whether there a culture of fear within the airline that modifies peoples behaviour.
They could examine the paperwork required for Cat 3 approaches (Do they have a Cat 3 minima card that allows their pilots to modify the minima in case of A/P and ground aid failures?).
The could check the training for low visibility approaches and refresher courses.
They could do a full audit of the duty and rest periods of all crews flying over that period. Were Minimum Rest periods compromised? If so by whom and on whose request.
They could examine whether there a culture of fear within the airline that modifies peoples behaviour.
Keeping Danny in Sandwiches
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It seems to me that this is a good time for the IAA to do a full and detailed audit of the Ryanair operation at EGSS during this 36 hr. period.
They could examine the paperwork required for Cat 3 approaches (Do they have a Cat 3 minima card that allows their pilots to modify the minima in case of A/P and ground aid failures?).
The could check the training for low visibility approaches and refresher courses.
They could do a full audit of the duty and rest periods of all crews flying over that period. Were Minimum Rest periods compromised? If so by whom and on whose request.
They could examine whether there a culture of fear within the airline that modifies peoples behaviour.
They could examine the paperwork required for Cat 3 approaches (Do they have a Cat 3 minima card that allows their pilots to modify the minima in case of A/P and ground aid failures?).
The could check the training for low visibility approaches and refresher courses.
They could do a full audit of the duty and rest periods of all crews flying over that period. Were Minimum Rest periods compromised? If so by whom and on whose request.
They could examine whether there a culture of fear within the airline that modifies peoples behaviour.
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Rules and regulations are there for a reason (SAFETY), Pilots and there commercial departments are putting to much pressure into operations to operate on time.
Keep within the rules and everone will be safe go outside them then there tends to be areas for accidents or inciidents.
Everone working in aviation from bog cleaners upto Pilots and Chief Executive Offices want to have safe and happy memories of working in the indistery.
Keep within the rules and everone will be safe go outside them then there tends to be areas for accidents or inciidents.
Everone working in aviation from bog cleaners upto Pilots and Chief Executive Offices want to have safe and happy memories of working in the indistery.
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Rules and regulations are there for a reason (SAFETY), Pilots and there commercial departments are putting to much pressure into operations to operate on time.
Keep within the rules and everone will be safe go outside them then there tends to be areas for accidents or inciidents.
Everone working in aviation from bog cleaners upto Pilots and Chief Executive Offices want to have safe and happy memories of working in the indistery.
Keep within the rules and everone will be safe go outside them then there tends to be areas for accidents or inciidents.
Everone working in aviation from bog cleaners upto Pilots and Chief Executive Offices want to have safe and happy memories of working in the indistery.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Unfazed,
I don't think "jealousy" has anything to do with it. I also work for a successful, very large, LoCo. However I don't feel the need and never am I pressured into bending the rules to keep the show on the road. Once this line is crossed it is the first link in the chain. I do sincerely feel for the pilots at RYR as it appears there is a culture of fear which is starting to affect peoples judgement.
When I first got my Command, I was given one piece of advice which has stuck with me.
If you are ever tempted to "push the envelope", practice justifying your actions in your best courtroom voice because if it all goes horribly wrong that's where you could end up (of course if you're dead then it's not your problem, but somebody elses). If you step outside the rules (in a normal operational situation) you will not have a leg to stand on. If the company sacks you for NOT going outside the rules - they will not have a leg to stand on.
Unfazed you are quite right - you don't wake up a JAR Captain one morning, you have to work at it - and keep working at it. Are pilots being promoted "too early" at RYR? - I don't know. Is the training system creaking at RYR? I don't know. Is the Command training sufficient at RYR? - I don't know. But after the alledged activity at STN last week, these are the questions the IAA/CAA should be investigating.
There is no witch hunt here. All airlines have their problems and incidents but is does seem that RYR has more than most - some, alledgedly, very close to catastrophe (CIA/BVS). I don't know if it's down to lack of training, ignorance, culture or because of the scale of the operation. Whatever it is, it needs addressing - now.
The whole industry would suffer if a LoCo suffered a serious accident - times are tough enough at the moment with fuel costs and wafer thin margins (but not SO thin at RYR..... four times the profit of EZY....?)
We are Professionals and the public deserve a Professional operation and ATTITUDE from the company as well as pilots - even if their ticket only cost £5.99.
Fly safe,
A4
I don't think "jealousy" has anything to do with it. I also work for a successful, very large, LoCo. However I don't feel the need and never am I pressured into bending the rules to keep the show on the road. Once this line is crossed it is the first link in the chain. I do sincerely feel for the pilots at RYR as it appears there is a culture of fear which is starting to affect peoples judgement.
When I first got my Command, I was given one piece of advice which has stuck with me.
If you are ever tempted to "push the envelope", practice justifying your actions in your best courtroom voice because if it all goes horribly wrong that's where you could end up (of course if you're dead then it's not your problem, but somebody elses). If you step outside the rules (in a normal operational situation) you will not have a leg to stand on. If the company sacks you for NOT going outside the rules - they will not have a leg to stand on.
Unfazed you are quite right - you don't wake up a JAR Captain one morning, you have to work at it - and keep working at it. Are pilots being promoted "too early" at RYR? - I don't know. Is the training system creaking at RYR? I don't know. Is the Command training sufficient at RYR? - I don't know. But after the alledged activity at STN last week, these are the questions the IAA/CAA should be investigating.
There is no witch hunt here. All airlines have their problems and incidents but is does seem that RYR has more than most - some, alledgedly, very close to catastrophe (CIA/BVS). I don't know if it's down to lack of training, ignorance, culture or because of the scale of the operation. Whatever it is, it needs addressing - now.
The whole industry would suffer if a LoCo suffered a serious accident - times are tough enough at the moment with fuel costs and wafer thin margins (but not SO thin at RYR..... four times the profit of EZY....?)
We are Professionals and the public deserve a Professional operation and ATTITUDE from the company as well as pilots - even if their ticket only cost £5.99.
Fly safe,
A4
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Unfazed,
I don't think "jealousy" has anything to do with it. I also work for a successful, very large, LoCo. However I don't feel the need and never am I pressured into bending the rules to keep the show on the road. Once this line is crossed it is the first link in the chain. I do sincerely feel for the pilots at RYR as it appears there is a culture of fear which is starting to affect peoples judgement.
When I first got my Command, I was given one piece of advice which has stuck with me.
If you are ever tempted to "push the envelope", practice justifying your actions in your best courtroom voice because if it all goes horribly wrong that's where you could end up (of course if you're dead then it's not your problem, but somebody elses). If you step outside the rules (in a normal operational situation) you will not have a leg to stand on. If the company sacks you for NOT going outside the rules - they will not have a leg to stand on.
Unfazed you are quite right - you don't wake up a JAR Captain one morning, you have to work at it - and keep working at it. Are pilots being promoted "too early" at RYR? - I don't know. Is the training system creaking at RYR? I don't know. Is the Command training sufficient at RYR? - I don't know. But after the alledged activity at STN last week, these are the questions the IAA/CAA should be investigating.
There is no witch hunt here. All airlines have their problems and incidents but is does seem that RYR has more than most - some, alledgedly, very close to catastrophe (CIA/BVS). I don't know if it's down to lack of training, ignorance, culture or because of the scale of the operation. Whatever it is, it needs addressing - now.
The whole industry would suffer if a LoCo suffered a serious accident - times are tough enough at the moment with fuel costs and wafer thin margins (but not SO thin at RYR..... four times the profit of EZY....?)
We are Professionals and the public deserve a Professional operation and ATTITUDE from the company as well as pilots - even if their ticket only cost £5.99.
Fly safe,
A4
I don't think "jealousy" has anything to do with it. I also work for a successful, very large, LoCo. However I don't feel the need and never am I pressured into bending the rules to keep the show on the road. Once this line is crossed it is the first link in the chain. I do sincerely feel for the pilots at RYR as it appears there is a culture of fear which is starting to affect peoples judgement.
When I first got my Command, I was given one piece of advice which has stuck with me.
If you are ever tempted to "push the envelope", practice justifying your actions in your best courtroom voice because if it all goes horribly wrong that's where you could end up (of course if you're dead then it's not your problem, but somebody elses). If you step outside the rules (in a normal operational situation) you will not have a leg to stand on. If the company sacks you for NOT going outside the rules - they will not have a leg to stand on.
Unfazed you are quite right - you don't wake up a JAR Captain one morning, you have to work at it - and keep working at it. Are pilots being promoted "too early" at RYR? - I don't know. Is the training system creaking at RYR? I don't know. Is the Command training sufficient at RYR? - I don't know. But after the alledged activity at STN last week, these are the questions the IAA/CAA should be investigating.
There is no witch hunt here. All airlines have their problems and incidents but is does seem that RYR has more than most - some, alledgedly, very close to catastrophe (CIA/BVS). I don't know if it's down to lack of training, ignorance, culture or because of the scale of the operation. Whatever it is, it needs addressing - now.
The whole industry would suffer if a LoCo suffered a serious accident - times are tough enough at the moment with fuel costs and wafer thin margins (but not SO thin at RYR..... four times the profit of EZY....?)
We are Professionals and the public deserve a Professional operation and ATTITUDE from the company as well as pilots - even if their ticket only cost £5.99.
Fly safe,
A4
flapsarefun,
"Are u guys SOOOO wrapped up in cotton wool all the time? ... or just have never flown 900 in 9 months."
No I'm not wrapped in cotton wool and no I haven't flown 900 in 9 months, it took me 10.
"Shoutin high handed rmks about lack of training tells me u know nothing of low fares"
Sorry, wasn't this about LWMO. I bought an extremely cheap ticket from BA last week. I'm sure they cope with LWMO as part of normal ops the way professional airlines do.
"And as for you BUSY B in HKG.....well do they still serve you colonial tea whilst briefing your highness with the notams as you sort the world out?....not an fr luxury in 5 mins!"
Do advise me where in HKG I can get that sort of service. I can't wait!
"Are u guys SOOOO wrapped up in cotton wool all the time? ... or just have never flown 900 in 9 months."
No I'm not wrapped in cotton wool and no I haven't flown 900 in 9 months, it took me 10.
"Shoutin high handed rmks about lack of training tells me u know nothing of low fares"
Sorry, wasn't this about LWMO. I bought an extremely cheap ticket from BA last week. I'm sure they cope with LWMO as part of normal ops the way professional airlines do.
"And as for you BUSY B in HKG.....well do they still serve you colonial tea whilst briefing your highness with the notams as you sort the world out?....not an fr luxury in 5 mins!"
Do advise me where in HKG I can get that sort of service. I can't wait!
flapsarefun,
"Are u guys SOOOO wrapped up in cotton wool all the time? ... or just have never flown 900 in 9 months."
No I'm not wrapped in cotton wool and no I haven't flown 900 in 9 months, it took me 10.
"Shoutin high handed rmks about lack of training tells me u know nothing of low fares"
Sorry, wasn't this about LWMO. I bought an extremely cheap ticket from BA last week. I'm sure they cope with LWMO as part of normal ops the way professional airlines do.
"And as for you BUSY B in HKG.....well do they still serve you colonial tea whilst briefing your highness with the notams as you sort the world out?....not an fr luxury in 5 mins!"
Do advise me where in HKG I can get that sort of service. I can't wait!
"Are u guys SOOOO wrapped up in cotton wool all the time? ... or just have never flown 900 in 9 months."
No I'm not wrapped in cotton wool and no I haven't flown 900 in 9 months, it took me 10.
"Shoutin high handed rmks about lack of training tells me u know nothing of low fares"
Sorry, wasn't this about LWMO. I bought an extremely cheap ticket from BA last week. I'm sure they cope with LWMO as part of normal ops the way professional airlines do.
"And as for you BUSY B in HKG.....well do they still serve you colonial tea whilst briefing your highness with the notams as you sort the world out?....not an fr luxury in 5 mins!"
Do advise me where in HKG I can get that sort of service. I can't wait!
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Being disembarked at Bournemouth in the rain with the queue for immigration out to the tarmac even though the Ryanair Captain had been asked to keep us all onboard.... I can cope with that.
Sitting in an emergency exit row and having my wife's scarf removed for takeoff and landing (and put in the overhead locker...regulations!!) when the other side of the aircraft (still in an emergency exit row) there is a 90 year old with his two walking sticks in the overhead locker.... I can just cope with that.
But landing "below limits", whatever the reason.... Can't cope with that.
Sitting in an emergency exit row and having my wife's scarf removed for takeoff and landing (and put in the overhead locker...regulations!!) when the other side of the aircraft (still in an emergency exit row) there is a 90 year old with his two walking sticks in the overhead locker.... I can just cope with that.
But landing "below limits", whatever the reason.... Can't cope with that.
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Being disembarked at Bournemouth in the rain with the queue for immigration out to the tarmac even though the Ryanair Captain had been asked to keep us all onboard.... I can cope with that.
Sitting in an emergency exit row and having my wife's scarf removed for takeoff and landing (and put in the overhead locker...regulations!!) when the other side of the aircraft (still in an emergency exit row) there is a 90 year old with his two walking sticks in the overhead locker.... I can just cope with that.
But landing "below limits", whatever the reason.... Can't cope with that.
Sitting in an emergency exit row and having my wife's scarf removed for takeoff and landing (and put in the overhead locker...regulations!!) when the other side of the aircraft (still in an emergency exit row) there is a 90 year old with his two walking sticks in the overhead locker.... I can just cope with that.
But landing "below limits", whatever the reason.... Can't cope with that.
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Hi:
I don't have access to the approach charts at the airport in question. Can you please tell me what the lowest glide slope intercept altitude is at the airport?
In the USA, if you have passed the final approach fix, or in the case of an ILS the lowest GS intercept YOU may proceed on the approach if the wx goes down below minimums and you may land IF ALL THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE APPROACH are met upon reaching DH (DA) (cat 1 or 2). This may be the 1000' business , but again I don't have the charts.
Also, by any stretch of the imagination, was the fog over just the RVR transmissometers and NOT over the runway itself? I've been in a situation of a very localized fog , covering the transmissometers giving a below mins report...however the runway itself was quite clear and in sight 5 miles out. We made a pilot report (pirep) of visbility 3 miles plus and landed all with relatively good respect for the regulations. This was at KPIT.
Having asked these questions in order to give the pilots every benefit of the doubt, it still sounds like they "busted mins" and :
if they had crashed, additional grief would come from the CAA.
if they didn't crash, they will probably "get away with it".
also, who knows, the airline in question may have some special relief in their ops specs for this situation. (thought I doubt it). For example in chicago, at Midway airport, Southwest had a special instrument approach procedure authorizing lower than standard mins...this seemed to factor into the december over run.
regards
jon
I don't have access to the approach charts at the airport in question. Can you please tell me what the lowest glide slope intercept altitude is at the airport?
In the USA, if you have passed the final approach fix, or in the case of an ILS the lowest GS intercept YOU may proceed on the approach if the wx goes down below minimums and you may land IF ALL THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE APPROACH are met upon reaching DH (DA) (cat 1 or 2). This may be the 1000' business , but again I don't have the charts.
Also, by any stretch of the imagination, was the fog over just the RVR transmissometers and NOT over the runway itself? I've been in a situation of a very localized fog , covering the transmissometers giving a below mins report...however the runway itself was quite clear and in sight 5 miles out. We made a pilot report (pirep) of visbility 3 miles plus and landed all with relatively good respect for the regulations. This was at KPIT.
Having asked these questions in order to give the pilots every benefit of the doubt, it still sounds like they "busted mins" and :
if they had crashed, additional grief would come from the CAA.
if they didn't crash, they will probably "get away with it".
also, who knows, the airline in question may have some special relief in their ops specs for this situation. (thought I doubt it). For example in chicago, at Midway airport, Southwest had a special instrument approach procedure authorizing lower than standard mins...this seemed to factor into the december over run.
regards
jon
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Hi:
I don't have access to the approach charts at the airport in question. Can you please tell me what the lowest glide slope intercept altitude is at the airport?
In the USA, if you have passed the final approach fix, or in the case of an ILS the lowest GS intercept YOU may proceed on the approach if the wx goes down below minimums and you may land IF ALL THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE APPROACH are met upon reaching DH (DA) (cat 1 or 2). This may be the 1000' business , but again I don't have the charts.
Also, by any stretch of the imagination, was the fog over just the RVR transmissometers and NOT over the runway itself? I've been in a situation of a very localized fog , covering the transmissometers giving a below mins report...however the runway itself was quite clear and in sight 5 miles out. We made a pilot report (pirep) of visbility 3 miles plus and landed all with relatively good respect for the regulations. This was at KPIT.
Having asked these questions in order to give the pilots every benefit of the doubt, it still sounds like they "busted mins" and :
if they had crashed, additional grief would come from the CAA.
if they didn't crash, they will probably "get away with it".
also, who knows, the airline in question may have some special relief in their ops specs for this situation. (thought I doubt it). For example in chicago, at Midway airport, Southwest had a special instrument approach procedure authorizing lower than standard mins...this seemed to factor into the december over run.
regards
jon
I don't have access to the approach charts at the airport in question. Can you please tell me what the lowest glide slope intercept altitude is at the airport?
In the USA, if you have passed the final approach fix, or in the case of an ILS the lowest GS intercept YOU may proceed on the approach if the wx goes down below minimums and you may land IF ALL THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE APPROACH are met upon reaching DH (DA) (cat 1 or 2). This may be the 1000' business , but again I don't have the charts.
Also, by any stretch of the imagination, was the fog over just the RVR transmissometers and NOT over the runway itself? I've been in a situation of a very localized fog , covering the transmissometers giving a below mins report...however the runway itself was quite clear and in sight 5 miles out. We made a pilot report (pirep) of visbility 3 miles plus and landed all with relatively good respect for the regulations. This was at KPIT.
Having asked these questions in order to give the pilots every benefit of the doubt, it still sounds like they "busted mins" and :
if they had crashed, additional grief would come from the CAA.
if they didn't crash, they will probably "get away with it".
also, who knows, the airline in question may have some special relief in their ops specs for this situation. (thought I doubt it). For example in chicago, at Midway airport, Southwest had a special instrument approach procedure authorizing lower than standard mins...this seemed to factor into the december over run.
regards
jon
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Also, by any stretch of the imagination, was the fog over just the RVR transmissometers and NOT over the runway itself?........
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Also, by any stretch of the imagination, was the fog over just the RVR transmissometers and NOT over the runway itself?........