LoCo airlines busting minima in LVP's at STN?
You cant balme the whorehouse when its full of willing whores.
You cant balme the whorehouse when its full of willing whores.
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Surely the Base Captain or Chief Pilot must have discovered the truth by now and issued a "notice to crews". Anybody know? Rumours like this would not be healthy in the crew room. Either they would need to be scotched or action taken. What is happening?
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Surely the Base Captain or Chief Pilot must have discovered the truth by now and issued a "notice to crews". Anybody know? Rumours like this would not be healthy in the crew room. Either they would need to be scotched or action taken. What is happening?
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what the h*** do you guys think!!!!!
A few things: yes, everybody flying to STN at the moment knows that some of the lights at the airport are u/s, this has been stated in leaflets published by BAA, and in the NOTAM's for EGSS. And every pilot knows, in 20/20 hind sight, that reduced ligthing affects your landing minimas.
And yes, the risc of it beeing a RYR-a/c landing below such increased minima, well; HELLO! RYR operates 75% of the flights in to STN in the evening, it being their biggest base.
Now: aircraft are flown by pilots.
Pilots are humans.
"It is human to err"- sounds familiar?? Anyone know where I'm getting at??
I didn't fly on that evening, but I was among the guys who had to pick up the scattered a/c the next morning.
AND: If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never ocurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.
It never happened because the company wanted to save mony. Management in RYR are generally asleep or drunk on a monday night anyway. It didn't happen because pilots in RYR are lousy pilots or poorly trained, anyone who's flown here knows that.
Please remember; a RYR-pilot has the same wish to go home to his loved ones ALIVE after work. Pilots in this company are not suicidal. For anyone to insinuate something like that is unprofessional. To say the least.
The reason for pilots in general (others beside RYR did land) landing under "illegal" conditions, is "they are human". They were not expecting fog, they didn't expect the WIP to affect their landings.
Now, instead of psreading more muck here, let's try to learn from this so it doesn't happen again.
And as long as you are not flying in RYR-colours; take the pointy stick out of your a***es, and go do something sensible with your time off. Don't spread lies here...
And yes, the risc of it beeing a RYR-a/c landing below such increased minima, well; HELLO! RYR operates 75% of the flights in to STN in the evening, it being their biggest base.
Now: aircraft are flown by pilots.
Pilots are humans.
"It is human to err"- sounds familiar?? Anyone know where I'm getting at??
I didn't fly on that evening, but I was among the guys who had to pick up the scattered a/c the next morning.
AND: If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never ocurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.
It never happened because the company wanted to save mony. Management in RYR are generally asleep or drunk on a monday night anyway. It didn't happen because pilots in RYR are lousy pilots or poorly trained, anyone who's flown here knows that.
Please remember; a RYR-pilot has the same wish to go home to his loved ones ALIVE after work. Pilots in this company are not suicidal. For anyone to insinuate something like that is unprofessional. To say the least.
The reason for pilots in general (others beside RYR did land) landing under "illegal" conditions, is "they are human". They were not expecting fog, they didn't expect the WIP to affect their landings.
Now, instead of psreading more muck here, let's try to learn from this so it doesn't happen again.
And as long as you are not flying in RYR-colours; take the pointy stick out of your a***es, and go do something sensible with your time off. Don't spread lies here...
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what the h*** do you guys think!!!!!
A few things: yes, everybody flying to STN at the moment knows that some of the lights at the airport are u/s, this has been stated in leaflets published by BAA, and in the NOTAM's for EGSS. And every pilot knows, in 20/20 hind sight, that reduced ligthing affects your landing minimas.
And yes, the risc of it beeing a RYR-a/c landing below such increased minima, well; HELLO! RYR operates 75% of the flights in to STN in the evening, it being their biggest base.
Now: aircraft are flown by pilots.
Pilots are humans.
"It is human to err"- sounds familiar?? Anyone know where I'm getting at??
I didn't fly on that evening, but I was among the guys who had to pick up the scattered a/c the next morning.
AND: If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never ocurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.
It never happened because the company wanted to save mony. Management in RYR are generally asleep or drunk on a monday night anyway. It didn't happen because pilots in RYR are lousy pilots or poorly trained, anyone who's flown here knows that.
Please remember; a RYR-pilot has the same wish to go home to his loved ones ALIVE after work. Pilots in this company are not suicidal. For anyone to insinuate something like that is unprofessional. To say the least.
The reason for pilots in general (others beside RYR did land) landing under "illegal" conditions, is "they are human". They were not expecting fog, they didn't expect the WIP to affect their landings.
Now, instead of psreading more muck here, let's try to learn from this so it doesn't happen again.
And as long as you are not flying in RYR-colours; take the pointy stick out of your a***es, and go do something sensible with your time off. Don't spread lies here...
And yes, the risc of it beeing a RYR-a/c landing below such increased minima, well; HELLO! RYR operates 75% of the flights in to STN in the evening, it being their biggest base.
Now: aircraft are flown by pilots.
Pilots are humans.
"It is human to err"- sounds familiar?? Anyone know where I'm getting at??
I didn't fly on that evening, but I was among the guys who had to pick up the scattered a/c the next morning.
AND: If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never ocurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.
It never happened because the company wanted to save mony. Management in RYR are generally asleep or drunk on a monday night anyway. It didn't happen because pilots in RYR are lousy pilots or poorly trained, anyone who's flown here knows that.
Please remember; a RYR-pilot has the same wish to go home to his loved ones ALIVE after work. Pilots in this company are not suicidal. For anyone to insinuate something like that is unprofessional. To say the least.
The reason for pilots in general (others beside RYR did land) landing under "illegal" conditions, is "they are human". They were not expecting fog, they didn't expect the WIP to affect their landings.
Now, instead of psreading more muck here, let's try to learn from this so it doesn't happen again.
And as long as you are not flying in RYR-colours; take the pointy stick out of your a***es, and go do something sensible with your time off. Don't spread lies here...
Never got involved with Ryanair squabbling before but this statement from BAP
'If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never ocurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.'
has convinced me that the standards in Ryanair are not high enough. I, nor any of my family, will fly with such self-confessed unprofessional pilots.
'If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never ocurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.'
has convinced me that the standards in Ryanair are not high enough. I, nor any of my family, will fly with such self-confessed unprofessional pilots.
Never got involved with Ryanair squabbling before but this statement from BAP
'If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never ocurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.'
has convinced me that the standards in Ryanair are not high enough. I, nor any of my family, will fly with such self-confessed unprofessional pilots.
'If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never ocurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.'
has convinced me that the standards in Ryanair are not high enough. I, nor any of my family, will fly with such self-confessed unprofessional pilots.
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Whilst they're about it, the IAA might also want to investigate that on the night in question how some crews who positioned back to STN in a taxi (arriving at 0500 hours after a 16 hour duty period) were persuaded by the company that they could operate before 2100 later on that day (this being minimum rest), by claiming that the taxi ride back to base constituted part of the rest period !!!
Oh, and they might be interested in the fact that a number of pilots were grounded recently due to being out of various checks as a result of the Ryanair training dept's failure to maintain proper records of recurrent checks and an efficient and timely system of notification as required under JAR Ops.
This is not a rumour, this if fact.
Oh, and they might be interested in the fact that a number of pilots were grounded recently due to being out of various checks as a result of the Ryanair training dept's failure to maintain proper records of recurrent checks and an efficient and timely system of notification as required under JAR Ops.
This is not a rumour, this if fact.
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Whilst they're about it, the IAA might also want to investigate that on the night in question how some crews who positioned back to STN in a taxi (arriving at 0500 hours after a 16 hour duty period) were persuaded by the company that they could operate before 2100 later on that day (this being minimum rest), by claiming that the taxi ride back to base constituted part of the rest period !!!
Oh, and they might be interested in the fact that a number of pilots were grounded recently due to being out of various checks as a result of the Ryanair training dept's failure to maintain proper records of recurrent checks and an efficient and timely system of notification as required under JAR Ops.
This is not a rumour, this if fact.
Oh, and they might be interested in the fact that a number of pilots were grounded recently due to being out of various checks as a result of the Ryanair training dept's failure to maintain proper records of recurrent checks and an efficient and timely system of notification as required under JAR Ops.
This is not a rumour, this if fact.
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So braking action,talking about what happened is unprofessional but landing in dangerous conditions is just bad luck,if i read your post correctly.Possibly by posting this info here we are preventing others from making the same mistake.Don't become a company blurt and just spit out all the bull they feed you everyday.
Only people who do not know what they are doing,do not know that downgraded or failed aerodrome equipment affect landing minima.(These minima are there for a purpose,to protect life).Those people should not command aircraft,because it will not be the only simple thing that they don't know.
I Know first hand that the training in ryanair is very very basic and left to the individual,but for chrissake have the common sense to protect your own licence.I Never alluded to the fact that pilots landed to save the company money,however they did land in dangerous conditions and consequently put passengers lives at risk.
Spreading muck and pointy sticks in arses is more management bull**** speak,Get your own personality!!!
Only people who do not know what they are doing,do not know that downgraded or failed aerodrome equipment affect landing minima.(These minima are there for a purpose,to protect life).Those people should not command aircraft,because it will not be the only simple thing that they don't know.
I Know first hand that the training in ryanair is very very basic and left to the individual,but for chrissake have the common sense to protect your own licence.I Never alluded to the fact that pilots landed to save the company money,however they did land in dangerous conditions and consequently put passengers lives at risk.
Spreading muck and pointy sticks in arses is more management bull**** speak,Get your own personality!!!
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So braking action,talking about what happened is unprofessional but landing in dangerous conditions is just bad luck,if i read your post correctly.Possibly by posting this info here we are preventing others from making the same mistake.Don't become a company blurt and just spit out all the bull they feed you everyday.
Only people who do not know what they are doing,do not know that downgraded or failed aerodrome equipment affect landing minima.(These minima are there for a purpose,to protect life).Those people should not command aircraft,because it will not be the only simple thing that they don't know.
I Know first hand that the training in ryanair is very very basic and left to the individual,but for chrissake have the common sense to protect your own licence.I Never alluded to the fact that pilots landed to save the company money,however they did land in dangerous conditions and consequently put passengers lives at risk.
Spreading muck and pointy sticks in arses is more management bull**** speak,Get your own personality!!!
Only people who do not know what they are doing,do not know that downgraded or failed aerodrome equipment affect landing minima.(These minima are there for a purpose,to protect life).Those people should not command aircraft,because it will not be the only simple thing that they don't know.
I Know first hand that the training in ryanair is very very basic and left to the individual,but for chrissake have the common sense to protect your own licence.I Never alluded to the fact that pilots landed to save the company money,however they did land in dangerous conditions and consequently put passengers lives at risk.
Spreading muck and pointy sticks in arses is more management bull**** speak,Get your own personality!!!
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I have my own opinion about Ryanair and its management culture, that however is not what is in discussion here..............
Eh?...come again? are you seriously suggesting you would knowingly exceed minima on the basis of it not occurring to you?
CAT2 and CAT3 Ops by their very nature are SERIOUS conditions, with specific and crystal clear published requirements. Braking Action Poor may I suggest you go no where near an aircraft until you have this clear in your mind.
As for the alleged below minima arrivals...if this is the case, I am not surprised one little bit
"It is human to err"- sounds familiar?? Anyone know where I'm getting at??
I didn't fly on that evening, but I was among the guys who had to pick up the scattered a/c the next morning.
AND: If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never occurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.
I didn't fly on that evening, but I was among the guys who had to pick up the scattered a/c the next morning.
AND: If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never occurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.
CAT2 and CAT3 Ops by their very nature are SERIOUS conditions, with specific and crystal clear published requirements. Braking Action Poor may I suggest you go no where near an aircraft until you have this clear in your mind.
As for the alleged below minima arrivals...if this is the case, I am not surprised one little bit
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I have my own opinion about Ryanair and its management culture, that however is not what is in discussion here..............
Eh?...come again? are you seriously suggesting you would knowingly exceed minima on the basis of it not occurring to you?
CAT2 and CAT3 Ops by their very nature are SERIOUS conditions, with specific and crystal clear published requirements. Braking Action Poor may I suggest you go no where near an aircraft until you have this clear in your mind.
As for the alleged below minima arrivals...if this is the case, I am not surprised one little bit
"It is human to err"- sounds familiar?? Anyone know where I'm getting at??
I didn't fly on that evening, but I was among the guys who had to pick up the scattered a/c the next morning.
AND: If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never occurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.
I didn't fly on that evening, but I was among the guys who had to pick up the scattered a/c the next morning.
AND: If I had been the commander on one of the FIRST a/c to come back in the fog the previous night, the chance is I would have landed below JAR-OPS stated minimums. Because it never occurred to me that the WIP would affect the operation.
CAT2 and CAT3 Ops by their very nature are SERIOUS conditions, with specific and crystal clear published requirements. Braking Action Poor may I suggest you go no where near an aircraft until you have this clear in your mind.
As for the alleged below minima arrivals...if this is the case, I am not surprised one little bit
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To err is human
Wow. It is beginning to seem as though Ryanair pilots are in cahoots with the management when it comes to shoddy and unprofessional working practises.
To err is human sure... but I agree with those who think it's pretty hard to err when landing minima are published and all you have to do is look up the RVR figure in a book and take into account aerodrome unserviceabilities.
Someone who is unable to do that without erring should not, in my view, be at the controls.
Having said that, did this actually happen? I've seen no press reports and am not entirely happy taking pprune at its word....
To err is human sure... but I agree with those who think it's pretty hard to err when landing minima are published and all you have to do is look up the RVR figure in a book and take into account aerodrome unserviceabilities.
Someone who is unable to do that without erring should not, in my view, be at the controls.
Having said that, did this actually happen? I've seen no press reports and am not entirely happy taking pprune at its word....
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To err is human
Wow. It is beginning to seem as though Ryanair pilots are in cahoots with the management when it comes to shoddy and unprofessional working practises.
To err is human sure... but I agree with those who think it's pretty hard to err when landing minima are published and all you have to do is look up the RVR figure in a book and take into account aerodrome unserviceabilities.
Someone who is unable to do that without erring should not, in my view, be at the controls.
Having said that, did this actually happen? I've seen no press reports and am not entirely happy taking pprune at its word....
To err is human sure... but I agree with those who think it's pretty hard to err when landing minima are published and all you have to do is look up the RVR figure in a book and take into account aerodrome unserviceabilities.
Someone who is unable to do that without erring should not, in my view, be at the controls.
Having said that, did this actually happen? I've seen no press reports and am not entirely happy taking pprune at its word....
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Braking action poor - you are right, "to err is human", however a Captian's job is to know what he is doing. I am an FO and I know that RVR's are modified for lighting conditions. I also know that if I have to make an approach in anything other than CAT 1 or better, I check my minima, and get it cross checked by my colleague.
Unfortunately you have just admitted to poor training and awareness and have then made it worse by defending it.
Let me judge Ryanair on the facts, not the spin. If you are the facts, then I agee with the "muckrakers". If you are making this up for comic effect, I suggest you stay out of a serious discussion as its not very funny.
Unfortunately you have just admitted to poor training and awareness and have then made it worse by defending it.
Let me judge Ryanair on the facts, not the spin. If you are the facts, then I agee with the "muckrakers". If you are making this up for comic effect, I suggest you stay out of a serious discussion as its not very funny.
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Braking action poor - you are right, "to err is human", however a Captian's job is to know what he is doing. I am an FO and I know that RVR's are modified for lighting conditions. I also know that if I have to make an approach in anything other than CAT 1 or better, I check my minima, and get it cross checked by my colleague.
Unfortunately you have just admitted to poor training and awareness and have then made it worse by defending it.
Let me judge Ryanair on the facts, not the spin. If you are the facts, then I agee with the "muckrakers". If you are making this up for comic effect, I suggest you stay out of a serious discussion as its not very funny.
Unfortunately you have just admitted to poor training and awareness and have then made it worse by defending it.
Let me judge Ryanair on the facts, not the spin. If you are the facts, then I agee with the "muckrakers". If you are making this up for comic effect, I suggest you stay out of a serious discussion as its not very funny.