flyBe GPWS incident (rumour)
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I heard that another Flybe Q400 came very close to the Cumulus Granite in France a couple of weeks ago .Saved by the GPWS , much like the FR guys at Knock.Anyone got anymore info' ?
NF
NF
CMF is nasty if you don't know what you are doing. It is still a Cat C airfield (captains only) and has to be practiced in the sim or for real. Any idea which direction they were landing, or was it the go-around up the valley?
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A pedantic but serious safety point is that modern aircraft are fitted with Enhanced GPWS (EGPWS); the continuing use of ‘GPWS’ can be misleading and may result in crews failing to understand the important differences between systems. There are several important improvements with the new EGPWS (TAWS) and the older GPWS (egpws,com). In addition to advancing the alerts and warnings and providing graphic displays, EGPWS is much more reliable, up to 100 times better. See “The last line of Defence” and the previous articles on near CFIT accidents in last years issues of Aero Safety World. The original paper is available here – ‘TAWS Saves’.
Was the approach to PGF non-precision? It will be interesting to see if this incident contains similar error provoking items and situations as those in the CFIT paper. Also would some of the defenses have helped; i.e. at least one pilot selecting EGPWS terrain display for all approaches, which should minimize the shock of a surprise warning.
Was the approach to PGF non-precision? It will be interesting to see if this incident contains similar error provoking items and situations as those in the CFIT paper. Also would some of the defenses have helped; i.e. at least one pilot selecting EGPWS terrain display for all approaches, which should minimize the shock of a surprise warning.
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Can you give a more detailed account of this (and I realise there are limitations to what you can say, before the report comes out, but just in general terms)? All I've heard is that they went too low on finals and came close to a hill, but would be curious to know more ...
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Can you give a more detailed account of this (and I realise there are limitations to what you can say, before the report comes out, but just in general terms)? All I've heard is that they went too low on finals and came close to a hill, but would be curious to know more ...
Cork airport is perched on top of a hill for those not familiar with it.
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flybe.com, you are probably correct about PGF, but after the approach to the other airfield the Captain was most definitely sacked.
And another has been asked to fall on his sword!
And another has been asked to fall on his sword!
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Smokie - I see. I hadn't heard about the CMF incident where both were sacked, was that on the 400 or 146?
.....and from what incident did the Captain falling on his sword arise?
As GBNPY indicates, there's got to be a common factor behind all this.
.....and from what incident did the Captain falling on his sword arise?
As GBNPY indicates, there's got to be a common factor behind all this.
Last edited by flybe.com; 17th Jan 2007 at 01:19. Reason: Added a bit of text.
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It seems that this place never changes! 
Don't know why I came back. 
All I am trying to do, possible naively, is to prevent two separate stories getting mixed up. Shoot me for trying.
Don't know why I came back. All I am trying to do, possible naively, is to prevent two separate stories getting mixed up. Shoot me for trying.
Last edited by Snigs; 31st Jan 2007 at 18:56.
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highflyin
You don't need hind sight to know that taking up an orbit on final is bang out of order. This sector was a public transport flight in a heavy turbo prop aircraft with passengers on board. It was NOT a Cessna 150 on a Sunday afternoon jolly. Many CFIT accidents are due to non standard ops the most recent being a 737 taking up an orbit on final at Bristol. Another idiot in command. A standard go around was required nothing else.
Hind sight is good and we can learn a lot from it but certain incidents are unforgivable. This is one of them and it scares me that it could of been me sitting in the cabin with a sub standard crew that are oblivious to dangerous manoeuvres such as this.
You don't need hind sight to know that taking up an orbit on final is bang out of order. This sector was a public transport flight in a heavy turbo prop aircraft with passengers on board. It was NOT a Cessna 150 on a Sunday afternoon jolly. Many CFIT accidents are due to non standard ops the most recent being a 737 taking up an orbit on final at Bristol. Another idiot in command. A standard go around was required nothing else.
Hind sight is good and we can learn a lot from it but certain incidents are unforgivable. This is one of them and it scares me that it could of been me sitting in the cabin with a sub standard crew that are oblivious to dangerous manoeuvres such as this.
So, as one who flies BEE from time to time, should I still consider them to be a safe operation? What with CMF, PGF, ORK, not to mention bits falling of their aeroplanes etc., sounds to me as if this airline is heading down the slippery slope! 
highflyin
You don't need hind sight to know that taking up an orbit on final is bang out of order. This sector was a public transport flight in a heavy turbo prop aircraft with passengers on board. It was NOT a Cessna 150 on a Sunday afternoon jolly. Many CFIT accidents are due to non standard ops the most recent being a 737 taking up an orbit on final at Bristol. Another idiot in command. A standard go around was required nothing else.
Hind sight is good and we can learn a lot from it but certain incidents are unforgivable. This is one of them and it scares me that it could of been me sitting in the cabin with a sub standard crew that are oblivious to dangerous manoeuvres such as this.
You don't need hind sight to know that taking up an orbit on final is bang out of order. This sector was a public transport flight in a heavy turbo prop aircraft with passengers on board. It was NOT a Cessna 150 on a Sunday afternoon jolly. Many CFIT accidents are due to non standard ops the most recent being a 737 taking up an orbit on final at Bristol. Another idiot in command. A standard go around was required nothing else.
Hind sight is good and we can learn a lot from it but certain incidents are unforgivable. This is one of them and it scares me that it could of been me sitting in the cabin with a sub standard crew that are oblivious to dangerous manoeuvres such as this.
) it is not a dangerous one.I must have missed the "recent" headlines about a 737 hitting a hill on final at Bristol!