I heard that another Flybe Q400 came very close to the Cumulus Granite in France a couple of weeks ago .Saved by the GPWS , much like the FR guys at Knock.Anyone got anymore info' ?

NF

I believe they were making an approach into CMF.
Allegedly both Pilots were sacked. I have also heard that only the Captain was sacked.

CMF is nasty if you don't know what you are doing. It is still a Cat C airfield (captains only) and has to be practiced in the sim or for real. Any idea which direction they were landing, or was it the go-around up the valley?

Smokie, it was PGF, and neither pilot was sacked.

Wait till the report on their ORK incident comes out. Makes Knock look like a hiccup.

A pedantic but serious safety point is that modern aircraft are fitted with Enhanced GPWS (EGPWS); the continuing use of ‘GPWS’ can be misleading and may result in crews failing to understand the important differences between systems. There are several important improvements with the new EGPWS (TAWS) and the older GPWS (egpws,com). In addition to advancing the alerts and warnings and providing graphic displays, EGPWS is much more reliable, up to 100 times better. See “The last line of Defence” and the previous articles on near CFIT accidents in last years issues of Aero Safety World. The original paper is available here – ‘TAWS Saves’.

Was the approach to PGF non-precision? It will be interesting to see if this incident contains similar error provoking items and situations as those in the CFIT paper. Also would some of the defenses have helped; i.e. at least one pilot selecting EGPWS terrain display for all approaches, which should minimize the shock of a surprise warning.

Can you give a more detailed account of this (and I realise there are limitations to what you can say, before the report comes out, but just in general terms)? All I've heard is that they went too low on finals and came close to a hill, but would be curious to know more ...

Story I heard was they were way too high on finals, decided to do a descending orbit, got well below the runway and had to climb up to the runway to land, getting quite close to a few chimney pots while doing so.

Cork airport is perched on top of a hill for those not familiar with it.

flybe.com, you are probably correct about PGF, but after the approach to the other airfield the Captain was most definitely sacked.

And another has been asked to fall on his sword!

If these incidents keep happening then surely there is a training problem?:ugh:

Smokie - I see. I hadn't heard about the CMF incident where both were sacked, was that on the 400 or 146?

.....and from what incident did the Captain falling on his sword arise?

As GBNPY indicates, there's got to be a common factor behind all this.

Idiot for orbiting on final. Why did he not carry out a standard go around?

Removed pending the AAIB report

Removed pending the AAIB report

:= Do not wash your company's dirty linen in public.

It seems that this place never changes! :ugh: Don't know why I came back. :ouch:
All I am trying to do, possible naively, is to prevent two separate stories getting mixed up. Shoot me for trying. :*

highflyin

You don't need hind sight to know that taking up an orbit on final is bang out of order. This sector was a public transport flight in a heavy turbo prop aircraft with passengers on board. It was NOT a Cessna 150 on a Sunday afternoon jolly. Many CFIT accidents are due to non standard ops the most recent being a 737 taking up an orbit on final at Bristol. Another idiot in command. A standard go around was required nothing else.

Hind sight is good and we can learn a lot from it but certain incidents are unforgivable. This is one of them and it scares me that it could of been me sitting in the cabin with a sub standard crew that are oblivious to dangerous manoeuvres such as this.

So, as one who flies BEE from time to time, should I still consider them to be a safe operation? What with CMF, PGF, ORK, not to mention bits falling of their aeroplanes etc., sounds to me as if this airline is heading down the slippery slope! :}

Um, as I read Snig's posting about it no-one was "taking up an orbit" on final approach. They actually (allegedly) conducted a rather unorthadox circling approach - a procedure which is an approved method for aligning any aircraft, from a C150 to a 747, with a runway that has no instrument approach. Whilst it is certainly a demanding procedure (especially when IMC :eek: ) it is not a dangerous one.
I must have missed the "recent" headlines about a 737 hitting a hill on final at Bristol!

I'll try to avoid irony in future Mike