Retirement letter

[winkle]

i have also seen the writing on the walls I have 20 years left to run and am not going to waste it in this industry. i work for a great company with great people but the job sucks so time to go whilst i have my health.

[great expectations]

Me Too

Winkle,
Im with you, I have more than 20 years to go and its only taken me a handful of years with a national carrier to realise that the 'dream' job is just a waste of my life. Flying is great fun, and yeah we all do have to work hard and thats fine, however its a huge sacrifice and I dont, yet, have 'mug' written across my forehead. The clued up people in this job know the score. The rest are so boring I wouldn't in a million years associate with them in any circumstances other than rostering.

[jondc9]

this thread has taken a nice turn, perhaps another one is in order


how would WE change the airline industry as it is now to bring back what we all thought was so great about the job.

I know I would have wanted the following:

Real Job Security, including pension, health care and the like.

Income security...decide what a pilot is worth and make sure that his salary keeps up with inflation, including buying a home near the domicile airport.

More one day trips. In the US, there is very little reason for many of the short haul trips on the east coast to be more than one day.


Similiar schedule every day to allow body clock synch.

Make an honorable living flying between 60 and 70 hours a month. (10-12 days)


Taking no LIP from crew schedulers. Or anyone else at the airline ( exception for bonafide improvement in safety)


Hire really, really nice and good looking female flight attendents.


Special access to planes without current screening.


all runways to have 1000' over runs (emas)


All copilots who have served 10 good years are given the 4th stripe, full captain pay and proper respect even if seniority does not allow the left seat.

full pay for career life if injured/sick etc.


what would you all like?


jon

[MrBernoulli]

Airbubba, you are very quick to jump on baywatcher here and elsewhere ..... but we haven't really heard your opinion. Where do you stand on this?

[RoyHudd]

Agreed

Started at 43 years, late and grateful...on SD-330's in the middle of the night. By 49, flying A-330's, right-seat. Doing it now in my 50's, job has turned crap. Stupid and rude security people, obese or aberrant unpleasant CC without manners, filthy holiday passengers/scumbags and all the rest previously reported. Flying the plane is the only real reward for me. For how long, I wonder?

[Airbubba]

Airbubba, you are very quick to jump on baywatcher here and elsewhere

Huh?

I don't think Baywatcher is the author of the letter if he is in Asia...

[Baywatcher]

Airbubba

I was not the author of the letter and never claimed to be, that’s why the “This just about sums it up” title and the text started and ended with inverted commas. I thought it a very good précis and obviously other readers did too!

[Airbubba]

I was not the author of the letter and never claimed to be

Exactly, I couldn't figure out why Mr. Bernoulli thought I was "jumping on you" with a couple of irreverent comments about the letter. I've seen these "farewell cruel world" laments about the decline of airline flying for years now. The writer is actually one of the lucky survivors of the Eastern debacle, many of his colleagues never turned a wheel again and had no retirement. I was on the sidelines when it happened.

Anyway, I guess Bernoulli somehow thought I was being mean to you, I think he misread the situation...

[Zaney]

I'm with Trinibyoy and whoever stated "Supply and Demand".

I'm not management, I am an aircraft commander - once off the jet I'm no better/no worse than anyone else.

With today's redundant systems and system reliability, the "I'm in charge of getting 200 pax to destination X safely" and expecting big $$$ is indicative how pompous alot of airline pilots are.

Don't get me wrong - when studs were dead reckoning/dealing with traffic w/o TCAS/powerplants without turbine technology - I feel they were deserving of high $s.

Complaining about "how it used to be" is certianly within one's rights - however, an adapting/positive attitude or leaving your current situation if not satisfied are the two options I instill in my kids.

BTW - my Dad is a retired 25,000+ PT 121 vet. He tail dragged in the DC-3 and left seated in the 90s. Heard it too often about the good old days.

How about writing a letter stating all the great things you experienced in your airline career. Good outweighs the bad in free world aviation.

God speed and fly safe.

[expatula]

Haha! Everybody here have been taken on a free ride. Except for a few, everyone thought it was actually Baywatcher who wrote the letter. It's funny how this thread developed with so many views and responses, accolades and praise going on the way of Baywatcher. Hahaha!

Good job, Baywatcher!

[MrBernoulli]

OK, Airbubba, you're right! I too got the wrong end of the stick. Apologies.

[chrisbl]

Originally Posted by Janspeed

OH I forgot one thing Crisbl, Whinging Pilots are the management's worst nightmare, of course they would want all pilots & co. to shut up, it makes it easier to sink the industry even more!
Of course if you are part of the "New Generation" of "pilots" then you would bend over for Mr. CEO & co.!! (as said quite well in some posts!)
Thks

I dont think anyone these days doesnot compalin about their lot and I suspect the CEOs of the world are the same. Everything is changing too fast, respect has gone as has notions of esteems.

That is the problem of society not the industry and what ever walk of life we are in it begins to reflect society.

Maybe 30 years ago pilots were considered as gods by the public when air travel was a rare thing, perhaps too many believed pilots beieved the myth too.

Now everyone travels by air and it is so normal then the myth has gone and pilots are just "bus" drivers.

The thing I hear from pilots is the same I hear from ex military and the same as from every generation. Things are not like they used to be.

Accept it and move on. The airline industry is not immune from the changes in society and with the challenges ahead over dealing with global warming etc it is likely in for some even bigger changes. In another 10 years time people will be saying the same about how it's not the same etc.

[Craggenmore]

Happily, you could delete the word Pilot and replace it with a number of other professions and it would equally ring true.

[Capt Crash]

Since I started flying professionally I wanted to fly the big metal. A few years ago I managed to get a job flying biz jets for Netjets and I can say I still love the job.

The passengers are generally fragrant and charming. I get to fly to great destinations usually, even the bad ones are interesting and an adventure. The planes are new and pretty reliable. I am the boss, management is a long way away and it just me and the co-pilot flying around Europe. Ahh, and I can still just handle the management..........as long as they sort out the new deal by December.

I think I will stay on the small metal for a while.

[411A]

Hmmm, for all the dis-satisfied guys who think they are wasting their time on the FD, be assured that there are hundreds of OTHER guys who will gladly accept your position.

IE: don't let the door slap you too hard on your a@@ on the way out.

Awww, poor babies.

[boredcounter]

Roy

Originally Posted by RoyHudd

Started at 43 years, late and grateful...on SD-330's in the middle of the night. By 49, flying A-330's, right-seat. Doing it now in my 50's, job has turned crap. Stupid and rude security people, obese or aberrant unpleasant CC without manners, filthy holiday passengers/scumbags and all the rest previously reported. Flying the plane is the only real reward for me. For how long, I wonder?

Bet they are banging at the door to fly with you! If you fly.
On an open forum you refer to the people that ultimately pay your wages as filthy holiday passenger/scumbags is below contept. Your comments about CC the same.
I don't fly for a living, thought about it but decided not to start when Single crew ops became the exception, not the norm, who knows if I would of made the grade.
The thought of being locked in a small room, behind an armoured door with a tw@ who thinks like you post, I made the right call all those years ago.
My rant is over and forgotten, your post will continue to harm the whole point of this thread as I see it.
That said, if you display your attitude as posted at work, I commend you for keeping at least one Customer Complaints member of staff employed.
Bored

edit below
Now back to the real thread and the issues it covers.

[JustAnothrWindScreen]

Originally Posted by Zaney

I'm not management, I am an aircraft commander - once off the jet I'm no better/no worse than anyone else.
With today's redundant systems and system reliability, the "I'm in charge of getting 200 pax to destination X safely" and expecting big $$$ is indicative how pompous alot of airline pilots are.
Don't get me wrong - when studs were dead reckoning/dealing with traffic w/o TCAS/powerplants without turbine technology - I feel they were deserving of high $s.

Zaney, I have never heard of anyone in the airlines refer to themselves as an aircraft commander ever. I assume you are a multi engine military pilot that has never flown for the airlines.

So you think that if you don't have TCAS or turbines then you should deserve more money. So when the airlines started converting to jet transports our pay should have gone down. When the airlines started getting gps and inertial our pay should have gone down. When the airlines put TCAS into our cockpits the pay should have gone down.

My time in the military was spent in single seat, single engine fighters. I was a pilot never an aircraft commander. Having been with the airlines for over 30 years I am now a Captain not an aircraft commander.

In my opinion, the flying of the aircraft with or without jet engines, gps, tcas, inertial, radar, or whatever "new" equipment comes along is just a given. If you can't fly the aircraft with whatever equipment without thinking about it, you are in the wrong profession. The current equipment on the aircraft has nothing to do with what I am worth as an airline captain. That is probably not a concept that someone that is not in the airline industry would understand.

[jondc9]

each generation of aircraft type requires new knowledge...each generation of planes also usually increases the productivity of each pilot, indeed the formula for pay used by ALPA is one of weight and speed.

AS brave and skilled as pilots were in pre GPS days, a modern pilot deserves every penny and a whole lot more. Especially when one considers that many airlines are flying in the US on the backs of pay cuts taken by pilots and others that make an airline work.


I think we all know what is meant by aircraft commander...here in the US, that might be used in the military. At the airlines the captain is PILOT IN COMMAND (not to be confused with pilot flying/pilot monitoring etc).


Many times there are different terms or spellings for things we share. DP Davies had such a translation in his fine book "Handling the Big Jets".

[ray cosmic]

Originally Posted by JustAnothrWindScreen

Zaney, I have never heard of anyone in the airlines refer to themselves as an aircraft commander ever.

The JAR-OPS uses the term "Commander", not Captain.
So officially, according the books, the guy with the 4 stripes is the Commander.

[chrisbl]

Originally Posted by JustAnothrWindScreen

The current equipment on the aircraft has nothing to do with what I am worth as an airline captain. That is probably not a concept that someone that is not in the airline industry would understand.

What you are worth as an airline captain is dictated by the market. There is often nothing logical about it. Otherwise nurses or care workers would be better paid that footballers.

The notion of having hundreds of souls entrusted into your care is no reason for being high paid either. Otherwise nuclear power station workers or water treatment plant workers would be paid according to the millions of lives in their hands.

In fact there is a paradox in that those with the least responsibilty for the direct care and welfare of others are paid the most and VV.

In the first group I would put actors, footballers, city bankers, etc.

In the second category I would put health workers, sanitary workers, nurses, farmers, police, etc.

Pilots seem to do OK.