Retirement letter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
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It really doesnt matter if this letter is the real thing or a work of fiction, it says it all, my pension in retirment is larger than 90% of the left seaters pay at my previoue employer, god bless those who saw this comming and moved our pension out of the hands of managment. We now own a flight school /charter outfit, most of our grads are avoiding the airlines and going to other branches of aviation{survey, medivac, charter,corporate} where their skills are rewarded and they are treated with respect, growing old is no fun but Im glad I was born at the right time to have done my flying when I did and not now with F/Os on comuter airlines qualifying for food stamps!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: on the Blue Planet
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Nice work Baywatcher
It is true (oyez oyez all wanabees) that you have to sacrifice more by the day to practice this job. Being a pilot you live for the job. You move were there is work, you keep fit and sober for the job, you accept erroding contracts for the job. You don't get rich and you spend a lot of time for the job.
On the other hand the view out of the window office still beats any other blue or white collar job! And will keep me happily going for another decade, time when I'll put finger to keyboard to ponder on the forthcoming retirement (retirement = preparation for the all final flight).
It is true (oyez oyez all wanabees) that you have to sacrifice more by the day to practice this job. Being a pilot you live for the job. You move were there is work, you keep fit and sober for the job, you accept erroding contracts for the job. You don't get rich and you spend a lot of time for the job.
On the other hand the view out of the window office still beats any other blue or white collar job! And will keep me happily going for another decade, time when I'll put finger to keyboard to ponder on the forthcoming retirement (retirement = preparation for the all final flight).
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
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Minor query.
The pilot pay website shows the NWA pay to be a little more than $93; $113 was the lowest Capt. I found . (DC-9 year 1)
The pilot pay website shows the NWA pay to be a little more than $93; $113 was the lowest Capt. I found . (DC-9 year 1)
Join Date: Mar 2002
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The industry has changed enormously over the years and if you were able to transport someone from the early sixties to the present day they would be stunned by how things have developed. The same would apply to just about any industry, well for those industries that still actually exist still in the UK. Change is an ever present aspect of life and no doubt there has always been a harking back to the "Good old days". I cannot comment on the situation of someone flying for a living in the USA but in the UK more people are employed in the industry than ever before and accesibilty has been improved (so long as you are willing to borrow the money). The Pilots taking these jobs are not school rejects by any stretch of the imagination and probably have reached a higher level of education that many in former times. There are still many more jobs which have worse terms and conditions attached and with a much more reduced chance of making it to retirement.I came relatively late to flying after 13 years in the merchant navy (and yes the good old days had long since passed along with hard tack and rum rations!) but still get £85k a year and am my own boss during the time I'm at work. If you ask the young people now what their impression of work prospects are you would get a much different answer to that in former times. They assume that change will be the norm and do not expect to work for the same employer for all their working life or be cosseted by a benign employer who will treat them with deference that has to be earned.
In short the world is always changing; the younger you are the easier it is to cope with.
In short the world is always changing; the younger you are the easier it is to cope with.
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
Life is really too short to devote one extra minute of your time to a company as well as a profession that is not everything you had hoped for..
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Valencia, Spain
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True, things are changing in aviation at a very rapid pace...
However, Baywatch is changing jobs, NOT retiring. Faced with a "take it or leave it" situation, he goes for the latter.
Best of luck.
Cheers
However, Baywatch is changing jobs, NOT retiring. Faced with a "take it or leave it" situation, he goes for the latter.
Best of luck.
Cheers
Join Date: Jun 2000
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I couldn't agree more and as for CHARACTER'S this is a no, no in this modern world of aviation, well so management believe. I look back at the character's I have had the pleasure to fly with over the past 30 years and to my knowledge not one of them ever lost a passenger let alone an aircraft, but they sure made the job pleasurable. Well at least I have my Vodka and Vallium to take me through to my pension..........pension, WOT pension. 
Buttonpusher
I believe that this letter is not from Baywatcher himself, I think he is just passing it along, (please correct me if I am wrong).I saw the same letter a couple of days ago on my airlines bb, but nonetheless it sure does wonderfully summarize what many of us are experiencing these days.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Heart of Darkness
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One unarguable fact that pertains to flying as opposed to other professions... if you go into law, medicine or consultant engineering, by the time you're into your 50s your approaching the peak of your profession, often have partners and associates supporting you and can look forward to life becoming easier with a steadily rising income. A very different story with the airlines where at the magic age of 60 one's experience counts for nothing. Allowing for the very volatile nature of airline employment as witnessed over the past 20 years together with the normal aches and pains of life generally, college fees, divorce.. medical care etc.. there must be a large group of pilots out there looking at a less than rosy enforced retirement...
Join Date: Feb 2006
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NWA (not worth anything)
As told to me by my one of socializing buddies, after he informed me of his retirement from the U.S.'s fifth largest bankrupt aircarrier.
Left NWA on an "early-out" a while back. Been doing part time work in Aviation, pipe and powerline patroling, and doing my best to keep F-street station in business. Having the time of my life while working less hours and bringing home more $$. Just read where NWA management is tracking all crews that fly over projected trip times and hitting them with threats of job action. Also, just heard that if you work the holidays you will get a $50 dollar stippend. After Taxes and the Worthlessman's hit money, that comes out to about $27.50.
Left NWA early when I asked the lead F/A to come forward and monitor the Cockpit door (hence known as flight deck) whilst I drained the ole monkey. After waiting sometime I once again queeried the ole gal and asked where she was. She informed me that there was a considerable lineup at the forward head and I should just come back and get in line as it would be quicker. I restrained my reply and said "look darling, you are to seat all the pax immeadiately and come forward now". Several days later I received a note to go see the infamous EOE bitch in H/R, followed shortly thereafter by an early retirement.
Wish all my past fellow pilots at NWA best of luck, but until you remove the beach boy group from the front office and the "worthless man" from ALPA life will continue to deteriorate. It's a prime example of "man feeding on his fellow man" in order to better themselves at your expense.
Once you get your head out of the fan blades and look around, you'll find there are plenty of opportunities for someone that has in ther prior life been entrusted with an $80 mill A/C and 400 lives. For years the Airline has told us we are expendable at their option and we have few skills that will carry us through in another career environment. I'm finding just the opposite. If your willing to try a change, go visit a coporate recruiter and let them know that anyday last week you managed 18 employees, 400 customer's concerns, with an $80 mil peice of equipment through several continents and got the job done. You'll find that even the MBA grads don't showup those skills.
And for the "ole gal" that ended my career early, get a life sweetie. There's a reason you have two ex-husbands, three ex-man friends, and two son's that seem to always argue with you. Dr. Phil isn't taking new referrals, but in your case I'm sure he make an exception. I'd asked for a cut of the royalties though, cause he sure to cash in on your story.
Thank you. I didn't know how much better it could be.
OosikMan
Left NWA on an "early-out" a while back. Been doing part time work in Aviation, pipe and powerline patroling, and doing my best to keep F-street station in business. Having the time of my life while working less hours and bringing home more $$. Just read where NWA management is tracking all crews that fly over projected trip times and hitting them with threats of job action. Also, just heard that if you work the holidays you will get a $50 dollar stippend. After Taxes and the Worthlessman's hit money, that comes out to about $27.50.
Left NWA early when I asked the lead F/A to come forward and monitor the Cockpit door (hence known as flight deck) whilst I drained the ole monkey. After waiting sometime I once again queeried the ole gal and asked where she was. She informed me that there was a considerable lineup at the forward head and I should just come back and get in line as it would be quicker. I restrained my reply and said "look darling, you are to seat all the pax immeadiately and come forward now". Several days later I received a note to go see the infamous EOE bitch in H/R, followed shortly thereafter by an early retirement.
Wish all my past fellow pilots at NWA best of luck, but until you remove the beach boy group from the front office and the "worthless man" from ALPA life will continue to deteriorate. It's a prime example of "man feeding on his fellow man" in order to better themselves at your expense.
Once you get your head out of the fan blades and look around, you'll find there are plenty of opportunities for someone that has in ther prior life been entrusted with an $80 mill A/C and 400 lives. For years the Airline has told us we are expendable at their option and we have few skills that will carry us through in another career environment. I'm finding just the opposite. If your willing to try a change, go visit a coporate recruiter and let them know that anyday last week you managed 18 employees, 400 customer's concerns, with an $80 mil peice of equipment through several continents and got the job done. You'll find that even the MBA grads don't showup those skills.
And for the "ole gal" that ended my career early, get a life sweetie. There's a reason you have two ex-husbands, three ex-man friends, and two son's that seem to always argue with you. Dr. Phil isn't taking new referrals, but in your case I'm sure he make an exception. I'd asked for a cut of the royalties though, cause he sure to cash in on your story.
Thank you. I didn't know how much better it could be.
OosikMan
Join Date: May 2003
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It is true that most 4th grade retards nowadays drive around in Porsches, BMWs and so on and have +500,000$$$$ houses, while most crew & co. have to suffice with prefab houses and crappy mortgages!
Well that is why we all want to fly, for crappy salaries and even crappier conditions!!!
HURRAY!!!
In the end one less whinging pilot cannot be a bad thing.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Arizona USA
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Well, if he was indeed with Eastern Air Lines at one time, he can thank his buds at ALPA, who walked out almost enmass due to an IAM action...which of course led to the demise of EAL.
Not Lorenzo.
Not Borman.
The IAM.
Silly boys.
Not Lorenzo.
Not Borman.
The IAM.
Silly boys.
Well, bitchy old flight attendant's (male and female) are quite the norm these days over here on the west side of the Atlantic, it's a constant and dispiriting sign of the times in the 'land of the free'
I do empathize and sympathise completely with fellow sufferers. What is really sad is that they seem to have more right's than us mere 'drivers' and if we do complain about their unprofessional behavior nothing will happen to them, indeed it is us that may be in more 'trouble'
As to age 60 the impending change and the supporters thereof , my thoughts are:
You knew what the retirement age was when you joined.
Notwithstanding the brutal financial hits we have all had to take after 9-11, we all took those hits.
You moved up,on the seniority list in your career because those above you reached 60 and puttered off.
Now you want to change the rules, purely to (slightly) benefit yourselves financially whilst royally screwing those beneath you waiting for their 'turn'
Get a life, bugger off and live longer.
I do empathize and sympathise completely with fellow sufferers. What is really sad is that they seem to have more right's than us mere 'drivers' and if we do complain about their unprofessional behavior nothing will happen to them, indeed it is us that may be in more 'trouble'
As to age 60 the impending change and the supporters thereof , my thoughts are:
You knew what the retirement age was when you joined.
Notwithstanding the brutal financial hits we have all had to take after 9-11, we all took those hits.
You moved up,on the seniority list in your career because those above you reached 60 and puttered off.
Now you want to change the rules, purely to (slightly) benefit yourselves financially whilst royally screwing those beneath you waiting for their 'turn'
Get a life, bugger off and live longer.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: World
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As to age 60 the impending change and the supporters thereof , my thoughts are:
You knew what the retirement age was when you joined.
Notwithstanding the brutal financial hits we have all had to take after 9-11, we all took those hits.
You moved up,on the seniority list in your career because those above you reached 60 and puttered off.
Now you want to change the rules, purely to (slightly) benefit yourselves financially whilst royally screwing those beneath you waiting for their 'turn'
Get a life, bugger off and live longer.
You knew what the retirement age was when you joined.
Notwithstanding the brutal financial hits we have all had to take after 9-11, we all took those hits.
You moved up,on the seniority list in your career because those above you reached 60 and puttered off.
Now you want to change the rules, purely to (slightly) benefit yourselves financially whilst royally screwing those beneath you waiting for their 'turn'
Get a life, bugger off and live longer.
When my first carrier was severely damaged, I had to commute to another city as my base got closed. Stayed with an ex Air Force bud that worked for Frank Lorenzo. During the whole time I commuted down there we would go out to breakfast with a group of 5 or 6 friends. All except 1 would SCREAM and YELL about me not going to work for NY Air or Continental if my carrier folded even though they knew I would be out of work. My carrier folded and I found a job at the bottem of an upstart paying almost nothing. When Continental went Chapter 11 guess who crossed the line the first day. YEP.. all those that SCREAMED and YELLED the loudest. The 1 friend who just did his job and didnt tell me or others what to do quit and got another job elsewhere. I have never seen this scenario fail ever. So all you SCREAMING and YELLING about those in front of you retiring at 60, remember you signed on for the same deal and I expect you to retire at 60 even though I know you won't.
Join Date: Sep 1999
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I have been saying the same thing for many years but the new breed have taken it over now.They want their political correctness and fly-out-of-a-book mentality and their no-smoking no-swearing pansy-ass flight deck and they'll pay for type-ratings and wont say **** when some mf like O'Leary tries to encroach on their dignity and self-respect.Self-respect now theres a word that sure has disappeared in this once-beautiful profession.
Join Date: Oct 1998
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I lost my job shortly after 9/11 when my airline retrenched. It soon became apparent that no one was interested in retraining a pilot in his fifties so I took a post in the aerospace industry. What a revelation. I'm treated as a valuable asset and I have the trust and respect of my colleagues across all disciplines. I enjoy my work, get home at a sensible time most evenings and have weekends free. I can always get time off when I want it and take holidays at the periods of my choosing.
Yes, I do occasionally miss seeing the sunrise at 37 000 feet and watching the world slide by at eight miles a minute but I've done that a lot in the past thirty-odd years so the nostalgia is quite bearable and I can keep the three-dimensional fix going in a Cessna or any other puddle-jumper I can lay my hands on. The left hand seat of a big aeroplane was a great place to be, as was the sweatier environment of military jets. I wouldn't change too much of what I've experienced since starting to fly in the late sixties but I now have a quality of life that has long disappeared from the short-haul airline world. Ah, Dan-Air....
Quite the nicest thing is being regarded as a knowledgeable and experienced pilot, rather than roster fodder.
Yes, I do occasionally miss seeing the sunrise at 37 000 feet and watching the world slide by at eight miles a minute but I've done that a lot in the past thirty-odd years so the nostalgia is quite bearable and I can keep the three-dimensional fix going in a Cessna or any other puddle-jumper I can lay my hands on. The left hand seat of a big aeroplane was a great place to be, as was the sweatier environment of military jets. I wouldn't change too much of what I've experienced since starting to fly in the late sixties but I now have a quality of life that has long disappeared from the short-haul airline world. Ah, Dan-Air....
Quite the nicest thing is being regarded as a knowledgeable and experienced pilot, rather than roster fodder.