Nurse fury at Ryanair as woman dies on flight from Italy
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You do not need rubber gloves or the mouth valve for mouth to mouth it is advisable but not essential. How many of you have been to a night club and kissed a total stranger.
Ryanair do have first aid kits on board aproved by by IAA and in one of them I believe does have a mouth piece and gloves.
The question is now why did the crew not use them who knows state of panic we all make mistakes when we are faced with stressfull situations.
Ryanair do have first aid kits on board aproved by by IAA and in one of them I believe does have a mouth piece and gloves.
The question is now why did the crew not use them who knows state of panic we all make mistakes when we are faced with stressfull situations.
I Agree about the stressful situation and it being missed.. we are all fallible.
Though the person you are kissing in a night club probably isn't dying from something that could be contagious but unknown.... a sick passenger possibly is,
A tragic death, perhaps some good will come out of it and a review will be undertaken .
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Sad but true
But back to the topic...
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Hello,
The first rule on safety..when a intervention is needed..is to see if the salvage will not put a other life in danger.
That's the risk assesment....
Useless to have two victims...instead one
So..think about that, when you have to make a ressucitation needing a contact with fluids of a other human....
Obviously...you are in danger of dead if not elementary precautions taken.
Bizzare...but it's the true.
However..you still free to act how you want...but you will have to be responsible of the consequences of your actions...
Regards.
The first rule on safety..when a intervention is needed..is to see if the salvage will not put a other life in danger.
That's the risk assesment....
Useless to have two victims...instead one
So..think about that, when you have to make a ressucitation needing a contact with fluids of a other human....
Obviously...you are in danger of dead if not elementary precautions taken.
Bizzare...but it's the true.
However..you still free to act how you want...but you will have to be responsible of the consequences of your actions...
Regards.
Last edited by TheSailor; 27th Sep 2006 at 05:11.
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Standards
No we don't have anything for migraine...
No you cant hold onto that paperback for take off, it must go in the overhead locker, your in an emergency exit row...
No I am not concerned that the eighty year old couple, her with an extension seat belt, who took twenty minutes to walk 100M to the aircraft , having been pre-boarded, are seated in an emergency exit row...
And there was not a ten year old grandson seated next to them on landing (Oh yes there was)...
I think my English is good and I don't think it would help for those of you who do not understand what I am saying if I slowed down a little...
You may in your airline brief all those seated in emergency exit rows prior to every departure, we would brief you about opening the exit only if we had an emergency...
I don't think that all pre departure PA,s should be safety related, lots of passengers are interested in scratch cards...
I, for one, am not impressed with Ryanairs Cabin Crew.
No you cant hold onto that paperback for take off, it must go in the overhead locker, your in an emergency exit row...
No I am not concerned that the eighty year old couple, her with an extension seat belt, who took twenty minutes to walk 100M to the aircraft , having been pre-boarded, are seated in an emergency exit row...
And there was not a ten year old grandson seated next to them on landing (Oh yes there was)...
I think my English is good and I don't think it would help for those of you who do not understand what I am saying if I slowed down a little...
You may in your airline brief all those seated in emergency exit rows prior to every departure, we would brief you about opening the exit only if we had an emergency...
I don't think that all pre departure PA,s should be safety related, lots of passengers are interested in scratch cards...
I, for one, am not impressed with Ryanairs Cabin Crew.
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Unlike ocean going passenger liners, aircraft are not obliged to carry a doctor or any other medical staff. They are obliged to carry minimum medical equipment as specified by the aviation authority (the IAA for Ryanair) that oversees their operation. Ryanair no doubt meet this obligation as do every other airline under the IAA jurisdiction.
A few years ago I witnessed a woman suffer a near fatal illness on a flight from Dublin to Chicago on an Aer Lingus A330. The cabin crew adopted the headless chicken routine while the lady beside me (who was a nurse) rushed to assist. Not much she could do except keep the old dear who was down breathing and comfortable. The captain diverted to Quebec to get emergency medical attention.
Later on when the nurse returned to her seat, she complained to me that the medical equipment on board was totally inadequate and the cabin crew were completely useless.
I really don't see a stick to beat Ryanair with this recent story. The blame, if there is any, lies elsewhere.
A few years ago I witnessed a woman suffer a near fatal illness on a flight from Dublin to Chicago on an Aer Lingus A330. The cabin crew adopted the headless chicken routine while the lady beside me (who was a nurse) rushed to assist. Not much she could do except keep the old dear who was down breathing and comfortable. The captain diverted to Quebec to get emergency medical attention.
Later on when the nurse returned to her seat, she complained to me that the medical equipment on board was totally inadequate and the cabin crew were completely useless.
I really don't see a stick to beat Ryanair with this recent story. The blame, if there is any, lies elsewhere.
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Two contrasting attitudes from this thread strike me:
1. You shouldn't take risks with the aircraft to get it on the ground fast even if there's a chance that it might save the person's life.
2. If there's no barrier mask, first aiders ought to risk catching a virus in order to do CPR if there's a chance that it might save a persons life.
Something interesting about the situations in which risk assessments are made.
And one puzzling thing. When I did a cpr course we were told they had to be on a hard surface - "get them off a bed and onto the floor" -, yet the report suggests the CPR was done over three seats.
1. You shouldn't take risks with the aircraft to get it on the ground fast even if there's a chance that it might save the person's life.
2. If there's no barrier mask, first aiders ought to risk catching a virus in order to do CPR if there's a chance that it might save a persons life.
Something interesting about the situations in which risk assessments are made.
And one puzzling thing. When I did a cpr course we were told they had to be on a hard surface - "get them off a bed and onto the floor" -, yet the report suggests the CPR was done over three seats.
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And one puzzling thing. When I did a cpr course we were told they had to be on a hard surface - "get them off a bed and onto the floor" -, yet the report suggests the CPR was done over three seats.
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Unlike ocean going passenger liners, aircraft are not obliged to carry a doctor or any other medical staff. They are obliged to carry minimum medical equipment as specified by the aviation authority (the IAA for Ryanair) that oversees their operation. Ryanair no doubt meet this obligation as do every other airline under the IAA jurisdiction.
A few years ago I witnessed a woman suffer a near fatal illness on a flight from Dublin to Chicago on an Aer Lingus A330. The cabin crew adopted the headless chicken routine while the lady beside me (who was a nurse) rushed to assist. Not much she could do except keep the old dear who was down breathing and comfortable. The captain diverted to Quebec to get emergency medical attention.
Later on when the nurse returned to her seat, she complained to me that the medical equipment on board was totally inadequate and the cabin crew were completely useless.
I really don't see a stick to beat Ryanair with this recent story. The blame, if there is any, lies elsewhere.
A few years ago I witnessed a woman suffer a near fatal illness on a flight from Dublin to Chicago on an Aer Lingus A330. The cabin crew adopted the headless chicken routine while the lady beside me (who was a nurse) rushed to assist. Not much she could do except keep the old dear who was down breathing and comfortable. The captain diverted to Quebec to get emergency medical attention.
Later on when the nurse returned to her seat, she complained to me that the medical equipment on board was totally inadequate and the cabin crew were completely useless.
I really don't see a stick to beat Ryanair with this recent story. The blame, if there is any, lies elsewhere.
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No we don't have anything for migraine...
No you cant hold onto that paperback for take off, it must go in the overhead locker, your in an emergency exit row...
No I am not concerned that the eighty year old couple, her with an extension seat belt, who took twenty minutes to walk 100M to the aircraft , having been pre-boarded, are seated in an emergency exit row...
And there was not a ten year old grandson seated next to them on landing (Oh yes there was)...
I think my English is good and I don't think it would help for those of you who do not understand what I am saying if I slowed down a little...
You may in your airline brief all those seated in emergency exit rows prior to every departure, we would brief you about opening the exit only if we had an emergency...
I don't think that all pre departure PA,s should be safety related, lots of passengers are interested in scratch cards...
I, for one, am not impressed with Ryanairs Cabin Crew.
No you cant hold onto that paperback for take off, it must go in the overhead locker, your in an emergency exit row...
No I am not concerned that the eighty year old couple, her with an extension seat belt, who took twenty minutes to walk 100M to the aircraft , having been pre-boarded, are seated in an emergency exit row...
And there was not a ten year old grandson seated next to them on landing (Oh yes there was)...
I think my English is good and I don't think it would help for those of you who do not understand what I am saying if I slowed down a little...
You may in your airline brief all those seated in emergency exit rows prior to every departure, we would brief you about opening the exit only if we had an emergency...
I don't think that all pre departure PA,s should be safety related, lots of passengers are interested in scratch cards...
I, for one, am not impressed with Ryanairs Cabin Crew.
A frail eighty year old women at the exit what good is she in an emergency if she can hardly mave how the
do you expect her to open the door if the cabin crew became incapacitated on impact.You dont given headache tablets for migarine. the reason because of the type of world we are in its the same in any proffesion you administer them drugs i.e only a tablet for a headache and they die becasue of a reaction the crew will be in court because they are not medically qualified they are just first aid trained.
The reason you are not briefed on how to open the door in an emergency its not an IAA requirement its juist a CAA requirement.
All these things you are complaining about are set by the IAA for your safety no other reason.
You can say what you like about Ryanir but I am sure they would never break the IAA's rules its not in there interest they would lose there operating license. Ryaniair will operate to the minmium requirement because thats all they have to do.
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I listened to Mick's two adventures in radio yesterday and there was one line in particular that I'd like someone more informed on here to clarify. I can't recall whether it was on the 1 o'clock news or Liveline (which immediately follows the news), but the discussion was about the level of equipment which Ryanair are directed to have on board. Mick stated very clearly that if the IAA OR THE CAA instructed them to carry more equipment, then they would of course do so.
Does the CAA have authority over Ryanair? If so, why don't they use it more (from what I can read here, a lot of blame is laid at the feet of the IAA)
If they don't then why did Mick say they did? I can understand him being hopeless on medical topics since he's not a medical professional, but I would have thought that as head of one of the largest airlines, he would know who he should or shouldn't take directions from!
Finally for those that had a go at the nurse in earlier posts, can I point out that it was in fact 3 nurses (two with specific training in emergency med.) and 1 consultant doctor (also with specific training in emergency med.)
... oh, sorry ... there's one other thing. A reporter was also on the radio from Italy (from whence the poor girl originated from). He mentioned that a coroner's report may hint at potential issues regarding 'cabin pressure being incorrect' as a possible contributary factor.
Does the CAA have authority over Ryanair? If so, why don't they use it more (from what I can read here, a lot of blame is laid at the feet of the IAA)
If they don't then why did Mick say they did? I can understand him being hopeless on medical topics since he's not a medical professional, but I would have thought that as head of one of the largest airlines, he would know who he should or shouldn't take directions from!
Finally for those that had a go at the nurse in earlier posts, can I point out that it was in fact 3 nurses (two with specific training in emergency med.) and 1 consultant doctor (also with specific training in emergency med.)
... oh, sorry ... there's one other thing. A reporter was also on the radio from Italy (from whence the poor girl originated from). He mentioned that a coroner's report may hint at potential issues regarding 'cabin pressure being incorrect' as a possible contributary factor.
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A Resusci-aid (barrier) is aboard RYR a/c as well as Latex Gloves, which is in the emergency trauma kit.
The worrying thing is that it wasn't given to the doctor or nurses. But who knows what actually happened on board the a/c. The kit might have been given but no barrier was sought as cpr was already being given. Nobody on the forum really knows what was said or done on the a/c unless they were there.
I'd hope the CC's knew where the equipment was but it could have been a dropping of the ball on their part or just pure stress during the event.
Saying RYR didn't have the equipment is wrong though as it is aboard RYR a/c. Cabin crew actions is another argument. I'm sure that will come out in an investigation.
The worrying thing is that it wasn't given to the doctor or nurses. But who knows what actually happened on board the a/c. The kit might have been given but no barrier was sought as cpr was already being given. Nobody on the forum really knows what was said or done on the a/c unless they were there.
I'd hope the CC's knew where the equipment was but it could have been a dropping of the ball on their part or just pure stress during the event.
Saying RYR didn't have the equipment is wrong though as it is aboard RYR a/c. Cabin crew actions is another argument. I'm sure that will come out in an investigation.
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Say what you like about Ryanair. They've stuck to their knitting!
No frills means 'no frills'. What do you expect for 50p + tax?
In aviation as in life. You get what you paid for.
No frills means 'no frills'. What do you expect for 50p + tax?
In aviation as in life. You get what you paid for.
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The bottom line on this is simple.
If an airline wishes to call on the services of travelling professionals, for free, exposing them to potential litigation, then the very least that should be provided is the equipment that these people need to do their job.
For whatever reason, the nurse says that she was not provided with this equipment.
She subsequently exposed herself to an unknown risk to try and save a life.
I have ultimate respect for this type of behaviour, which strikes me as being based on an admirable values system.
If an airline wishes to call on the services of travelling professionals, for free, exposing them to potential litigation, then the very least that should be provided is the equipment that these people need to do their job.
For whatever reason, the nurse says that she was not provided with this equipment.
She subsequently exposed herself to an unknown risk to try and save a life.
I have ultimate respect for this type of behaviour, which strikes me as being based on an admirable values system.
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On come on you lot, have a listen to the story through the mouths of the people that where there and you will hear that it was no the shortage of the masks and the gloves that they had a problem with it was the fact that there was no plastic tube to put in the airway and squeezable attachable airbag (i am sure there is a techie term, but anyway we have all seen them on shows like ER), none of which are required under IAA CAA or JAR for short flights such is operated by ryr and many others, no doubt the likes of topdog1 and others who fly on aircraft with more equipment are going oceanic.
There can be little doubt that if there was a requirement for that sort of gear on fr flights they would be there, there is no way they would leave them selfs open to that sort of legation, because as always they would lose.
There is no point in coming out with outrages comments about how much better some company may train there crews compared with others, i am sure the crew on that flight would have liked nothing better than to have save this women, the fact remains that even trained professionals couldn't due to lack of equipment... But,,, Had the right equipment been on board and no nurses etc..... are the crews legally entitled, trained or not, to insert a plastic tube down the throat of a unconscious person,, how on earth is anyone with out a medical degree meant to make that call. no doubt if it was done wrong then it could be the fundamental reason why the person may die..... think about that as you admirer your "full emergency equipment including a de-fib" first aid kit.
I am sure from time to time there will more events such as this one, but maybe of a different nature and someone will say, " well if they had of had this blah blah blah on board we could have saved them, shame on that airline".
rant over.....
oh by the way, i agree MOL is a , but hey we all knew that right...
more beer
There can be little doubt that if there was a requirement for that sort of gear on fr flights they would be there, there is no way they would leave them selfs open to that sort of legation, because as always they would lose.
There is no point in coming out with outrages comments about how much better some company may train there crews compared with others, i am sure the crew on that flight would have liked nothing better than to have save this women, the fact remains that even trained professionals couldn't due to lack of equipment... But,,, Had the right equipment been on board and no nurses etc..... are the crews legally entitled, trained or not, to insert a plastic tube down the throat of a unconscious person,, how on earth is anyone with out a medical degree meant to make that call. no doubt if it was done wrong then it could be the fundamental reason why the person may die..... think about that as you admirer your "full emergency equipment including a de-fib" first aid kit.
I am sure from time to time there will more events such as this one, but maybe of a different nature and someone will say, " well if they had of had this blah blah blah on board we could have saved them, shame on that airline".
rant over.....
oh by the way, i agree MOL is a
, but hey we all knew that right...more beer
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I don't think it is just the airline that wants the expertise of the medical professionals........ I think it is the person with the medical emergency that asks for the help 3 green. 
I would regard this as part of a doctors or nurses medical or ethical responsibility to help people in need.
Just to reiterate. The equipment in question is aboard RYR a/c.
I would regard this as part of a doctors or nurses medical or ethical responsibility to help people in need.
Just to reiterate. The equipment in question is aboard RYR a/c.
A plastic tube and a squeezy bag....
Would some rudimentary surgery to a drop down oxy mask system provide the necessary components? I recall a surgeon carried out some makeshift life-saving surgery on a ba jet some time ago using whatever came to hand...
Ah - but now, of course, the nanny state has banned useful things like Leatherman tools, so perhaps this idea would have been a non-starter?
Would some rudimentary surgery to a drop down oxy mask system provide the necessary components? I recall a surgeon carried out some makeshift life-saving surgery on a ba jet some time ago using whatever came to hand...
Ah - but now, of course, the nanny state has banned useful things like Leatherman tools, so perhaps this idea would have been a non-starter?