Crew incapacitation (Ryanair)
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As an amateur, and quite happy to be corrected, would it not have been wise to get the aircraft on the ground at the nearest suitable airport as soon as possible?
I understand the argument about being familiar with the airfield, but surely a professional pilot should be able to divert to an airfield unfamiliar to him if the need arises?
And if he was within a short distance of Derry, then BFS would be available with a good runway length, the associated emergency services, and in a very short time-frame?
Saying all that, any one man landing in a big jet is to be applauded...
I understand the argument about being familiar with the airfield, but surely a professional pilot should be able to divert to an airfield unfamiliar to him if the need arises?
And if he was within a short distance of Derry, then BFS would be available with a good runway length, the associated emergency services, and in a very short time-frame?
Saying all that, any one man landing in a big jet is to be applauded...
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Also the replacement aircraft that did the STN-LDY-STN flight later that evening was the last to land before the runway closed for the scheduled works. Well done to all concerned.
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Having considerable experience operating into Derry, I can only say that the FO did the right thing and went back to STN. Derry is a very short runway, only an ILS on one end (RWY 26) with NDB non-precision on RWY 08. Who was to say that R26 was in use? I have no idea what the weather was like there last night but it's normally blowing a gale across the runway and raining! Would you want to land at an airfield with performance limits in a windy and dark night single pilot in a B737-800? No thanks! The flight is very short from STN so a diversion back is no great length of time and the guy was still breathing, he was not about to die. (I know this for a fact). So why not go back? The FO is to be commended on his excellent work.
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The Captain did not require hospital treatment. As for the closeness of hospitals, both airports have such facilities very close so it's not really an issue in this particular case. If it was a heart attack case then I think personally I would have looked at either Belfast Aldergrove, Dublin or Liverpool, favouring which ever was closer or had the best weather, if weather was a factor.
At the end of the day, this FO did a first class job and everyone (including the incap skipper) is safe and sound.
At the end of the day, this FO did a first class job and everyone (including the incap skipper) is safe and sound.
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It's a valid emergency, so pressure on the remaining crew is high.
You have to take a decision and as long as its a safe one, continue with the plan. It is very hard to come right away with a suitable alternate at any moment on any route on any given day. Maybe he just remembered weather at STN was good or whatever. Situations like this are not like following a recipe to bake a cake. Any decision which ended up saving the majority of peeps is the best. Captain got lucky. But you can't expect the FO to start cowboying into the unknown being unprepared for the sake of the Captain while in fact he has to take care of a probably almost full cabin, a crew and a multimillion dollar aircraft.
Good job.
You have to take a decision and as long as its a safe one, continue with the plan. It is very hard to come right away with a suitable alternate at any moment on any route on any given day. Maybe he just remembered weather at STN was good or whatever. Situations like this are not like following a recipe to bake a cake. Any decision which ended up saving the majority of peeps is the best. Captain got lucky. But you can't expect the FO to start cowboying into the unknown being unprepared for the sake of the Captain while in fact he has to take care of a probably almost full cabin, a crew and a multimillion dollar aircraft.
Good job.
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Totally agree with the decision in the grand scale of things he made the right decsion for this reason. As already mentioned derry is a cpt only landing however if it was a heart attack and the cpt wasent breathing would they have allowed him to land?? Even so that could end in disaster. I dont know how long the fo would have been in the company however being ryanair crew and based in STN he would have made 1 or 2 landings a day into STN so would have known it very well. Also STN a base if he had diverted anywhere else apart from a base the aircraft and passengers would have been stranded there. Well done to the FO
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Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
The only way we'll know where the aircraft actually was as all this happened is if the FO in question says so on here (unlikely) or an ATCO in the know, says on here (less unlikely.)
If it was 15 mins from LDY, does it put the flight somewhere near TOD? At that point, starting to divert to an (unfamilar to the FO) alternate, single handedly in an already high pressured situation...? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
The aircraft landed safely and passengers reached their destination the same evening.
The only way we'll know where the aircraft actually was as all this happened is if the FO in question says so on here (unlikely) or an ATCO in the know, says on here (less unlikely.)
If it was 15 mins from LDY, does it put the flight somewhere near TOD? At that point, starting to divert to an (unfamilar to the FO) alternate, single handedly in an already high pressured situation...? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?
The aircraft landed safely and passengers reached their destination the same evening.
I Have Control
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Non-qualified pilots look away.
Well played the FO. Fuel and weather being sound, then home base was the right call. Many many more lives than the CM1's were at stake, and single-pilot operation of a biggish public transport jet is a rare occurrence.
Sim does NOT nearly prepare one for this, although obviously it permits the usual rehearsal of drills and the actions.
Now think of a mid-Atlantic (winter) incapacitation of a crew member. And an aircraft full of people. The other guy's life is important, but not to the extent of risking 350 others. And the decision-making and actions are tough. No field within 2 hours flying time. Weathers at possible alternates tricky.
This FO proved himself more than worthy of progressing to the next stage. Be that present-type command or long-haul.
Would folks without experience please not contribute? Their questions are not valid.
Sim does NOT nearly prepare one for this, although obviously it permits the usual rehearsal of drills and the actions.
Now think of a mid-Atlantic (winter) incapacitation of a crew member. And an aircraft full of people. The other guy's life is important, but not to the extent of risking 350 others. And the decision-making and actions are tough. No field within 2 hours flying time. Weathers at possible alternates tricky.
This FO proved himself more than worthy of progressing to the next stage. Be that present-type command or long-haul.
Would folks without experience please not contribute? Their questions are not valid.
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How would we feel about returning to STN in case of engine failure? Like engines, pilots are usually provided in pairs and if both of these essential "systems" are lost, eveyone dies. Except, pilots have proven to be less reliable than engines, especially when under stress.
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(a) may very well have been on that flight, and
(b) is a professional engineer involved in a safety driven industry,
am I suitably experienced to ask valid questions of my professional pilot friends?
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Explain your illness
I trust in accordance with the latest memo from ryr flight ops mgr the cpt in quetion will explain in writing why he was ill and what steps he will be taking to prevent a re-occurence. No really I'm serious!!
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'Would folks without experience please not contribute? Their questions are not valid.'
As an earlier contributor to this thread I regretably I am one of those without 'experience', I may stand corrected but I felt that I made a positive contribution. Your post is indeed interesting and raises many 'questions', indeed I would challenge some of your assertions. My point is that open debate/discussion is healthy, however, while agreeing that some contributors have little to add, it also appears at times that a small minority of the flight deck fraternity contributing to this forum have exclusive rights to 'opinions'. Now.....back to the original thread, and the opinion of others.
As an earlier contributor to this thread I regretably I am one of those without 'experience', I may stand corrected but I felt that I made a positive contribution. Your post is indeed interesting and raises many 'questions', indeed I would challenge some of your assertions. My point is that open debate/discussion is healthy, however, while agreeing that some contributors have little to add, it also appears at times that a small minority of the flight deck fraternity contributing to this forum have exclusive rights to 'opinions'. Now.....back to the original thread, and the opinion of others.
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Good grief!
The debate rages on... should he have gone to LDY? Gone back to STN? Tried somewhere else? DUB, anyone?
To have this debate sensibly we need AT LEAST the following pieces of information:
- Position of aircraft at time of incident. ('About 15 mins from LDY' is not good enough)
- Prevailing wx at the time.
Without these, we can't tell whether the FO made a good or bad decision. Even with these, we can only begin to start speculating.
Anyone have any facts to add to the discussion?
CC
The debate rages on... should he have gone to LDY? Gone back to STN? Tried somewhere else? DUB, anyone?
To have this debate sensibly we need AT LEAST the following pieces of information:
- Position of aircraft at time of incident. ('About 15 mins from LDY' is not good enough)
- Prevailing wx at the time.
Without these, we can't tell whether the FO made a good or bad decision. Even with these, we can only begin to start speculating.
Anyone have any facts to add to the discussion?
CC
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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There's nothing to discuss- read the thread. The lad done well. Stop trying to outguess him. Non event. All's well that ends well. Good on 'im. Stop trying to spoil it- it is not for you to decide. Not for anybody to overrule- he had an emergency and he dealt with it, satisfactorily. Period. Over and done with. Nobody will now criticise him. No 'Pprune Courts Martial' after the event, please!
Preparing a landing at an unfamiliar alternate airport with tricky approach procedures takes time, even in normal two-pilot operation, but in addition, any range advantage will be nullified rapidly in case of a go-around - which doesn't seem that unlikely for a single-pilot NDB or circling approach to an airport with a short "railway-restricted" runway.
No question in my mind that this F/O made a good decision.
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It could be that RYR told the F/O via VHF for it return to STN so as to avoid any further disruption to their program. Call me cynical, but it wouldn't surprise me 
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Just some info.
- The A/C was still close to STN, near Blackpool as fas as I'm aware.
- FO's are not allowed to land in Derry. It is a very restricted airport.
- Ryanair aircraft are not HF equipped.
- FO was new, but familiar with STN.
There, my first post after more then six years of only reading
- The A/C was still close to STN, near Blackpool as fas as I'm aware.
- FO's are not allowed to land in Derry. It is a very restricted airport.
- Ryanair aircraft are not HF equipped.
- FO was new, but familiar with STN.
There, my first post after more then six years of only reading