Ryanair/Channel 4 dispatches Programme
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If they were genuinely unsafe, the IAA or the CAA would have jumped all over them by now.
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Originally Posted by Capt Hook
Have personally witnessed passengers disembarking forward doors as passengers embark rear doors; would love to know what rules are being worked to? Are they not now reaping their harvest! I am not being critical of individuals, as I know like myself, they are under pressure to make it work; I more blame the company cultures that are purveying the industry as a whole whilst preaching the "safety is paramount". If this was the case, why do we end up working a 60 hour week combined with unsocial hours.
There are so many posts on here about Ryanair like your's that just make me shake my head and laugh! Boarding on the rear steps whilst passengers disembark on the front? What a load of tosh. There are certainly bigger statements made on here that make me want to reply involving things far more important than passenger boarding issue's but your statement almost take's the biscuit. When and where did you witness this? In 10 years being involved in Ryanair Engineering, attending turnarounds in UK and Europe, I have NEVER witnessed this! If people such as yourself would stop posting such utter tripe then maybe the occasional genuine issue that is raised would be able to be discussed in a rational manner.
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I don't think I'll be forming an impression of Ryanair based upon the "revelations" of a biased, heavily/cleverly edited, sensationalising TV documentary (hey, OK, I admit, I'm just guessing, based upon 99.999999% of undercover, true to life, ever so real, honest this is the real thing, not kidding, Scouts honour TV documentaries).
Some people will believe anything they see on TV.
Brainwashed!
Some people will believe anything they see on TV.
Brainwashed!
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Originally Posted by eng123
Capt Hook,
I have NEVER witnessed this! If people such as yourself would stop posting such utter tripe then maybe the occasional genuine issue that is raised would be able to be discussed in a rational manner.
I have NEVER witnessed this! If people such as yourself would stop posting such utter tripe then maybe the occasional genuine issue that is raised would be able to be discussed in a rational manner.
That said thank you for your polite reply, it goes a long way to foster open and free discussion on this forum.
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I was trying to read the letters on the Ryanair site but all I have up is a list of numbers (1-13) and a series of dates one against each number. I cannot see any letters and I cannot click on anything to view the letters ....any ideas?
ie
1. Feb 10
-- ------
2. Jan 12
-- ------
3. Jan 23
etc etc
ie
1. Feb 10
-- ------
2. Jan 12
-- ------
3. Jan 23
etc etc
aceatco, retired
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ifleeplanes
Are you running Norton Ad Blocker, or something similar? You need to configure it to accept content from the Ryanair site. I had this problem at first.
Are you running Norton Ad Blocker, or something similar? You need to configure it to accept content from the Ryanair site. I had this problem at first.
Qui custodiet custodiens? (spelling?)
Or 'who watches the watchers?'
This production company was commissioned by Channel 4 to make a programme 'exposing' Ryanair. If they found nothing wrong, their commission would not pay their wages. So they had to find something wrong.
What they found were a few grumbling staff, a couple of practices they didn't understand, and a few minor misdemeanours.
So they edit their videotapes to reinforce their initial prejudices (that Ryanair must be 'exposed') and create an hour's TV entertainment.
They are forced to offer their victim a right of rebuttal, but in a very limited way, so they hide behind Ofcom guidelines.
If they were genuinely convinced of the strength of their allegations they would want to interview MOL live on air (like Roger Cook who wanted an interview NOW with the con-men he exposed)
Their 'reporters' who infiltrated Ryanair were probably experiencing the first training of their lives. Journalists can wield their pens/video cameras without control, training, accountability, discipline or moral judgement.
They found a tightly regulated world of procedures, record-keeping, training, checks and accountability that must have come as a surprise.
But still they had to make a TV programme. And because C4 relies on advertising, it had to promise sensational exposures, safety-critical horror stories, and shocking revelations.
Let's hope someone exposes this grubby little outfit for what it is - a peddler of the drug of sensationalism. An organization unwilling to open itself to the scrutiny it happily applies to others. An arrogant bunch of creeps who consider the airtime to be their own, to be used to further their own uneducated prejudices.
But of course that won't happen unless MOL sues them. Let's hope he does.
This production company was commissioned by Channel 4 to make a programme 'exposing' Ryanair. If they found nothing wrong, their commission would not pay their wages. So they had to find something wrong.
What they found were a few grumbling staff, a couple of practices they didn't understand, and a few minor misdemeanours.
So they edit their videotapes to reinforce their initial prejudices (that Ryanair must be 'exposed') and create an hour's TV entertainment.
They are forced to offer their victim a right of rebuttal, but in a very limited way, so they hide behind Ofcom guidelines.
If they were genuinely convinced of the strength of their allegations they would want to interview MOL live on air (like Roger Cook who wanted an interview NOW with the con-men he exposed)
Their 'reporters' who infiltrated Ryanair were probably experiencing the first training of their lives. Journalists can wield their pens/video cameras without control, training, accountability, discipline or moral judgement.
They found a tightly regulated world of procedures, record-keeping, training, checks and accountability that must have come as a surprise.
But still they had to make a TV programme. And because C4 relies on advertising, it had to promise sensational exposures, safety-critical horror stories, and shocking revelations.
Let's hope someone exposes this grubby little outfit for what it is - a peddler of the drug of sensationalism. An organization unwilling to open itself to the scrutiny it happily applies to others. An arrogant bunch of creeps who consider the airtime to be their own, to be used to further their own uneducated prejudices.
But of course that won't happen unless MOL sues them. Let's hope he does.
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LSG6753 says
That, I guess, is impeccable logic. Here's a similar logic: LSG6753 has made a post attacking Channel 4 and hopes that Ryanair will sue them. LSG6753 has not seen the programme. Therefore LSG6753 is biased aganst Channel 4.
This thread is fascinating as a study in biases. At this rate we will see 50 pages on this thread and very little light at the end of the tunnel.
If they found nothing wrong, their commission would not pay their wages. So they had to find something wrong.
This thread is fascinating as a study in biases. At this rate we will see 50 pages on this thread and very little light at the end of the tunnel.
Boy,
Am I biased, or do I have an opinion?
I have an opinion. It is based on:
reading through the correspondence on the FR website,
looking at the Channel 4 website,
personal experience of dealing with 'investigative' journalists (not as subject matter)
knowing the aviation industry
knowing several journalists, and having professional dealings
You may think this makes me biased. I think bias is different to reasoned opinion. Feel free to differ. I'll try to watch the programme tomorrow, but I don't expect it to alter my opinion. Of course, it might (because I'm not biased...)
Am I biased, or do I have an opinion?
I have an opinion. It is based on:
reading through the correspondence on the FR website,
looking at the Channel 4 website,
personal experience of dealing with 'investigative' journalists (not as subject matter)
knowing the aviation industry
knowing several journalists, and having professional dealings
You may think this makes me biased. I think bias is different to reasoned opinion. Feel free to differ. I'll try to watch the programme tomorrow, but I don't expect it to alter my opinion. Of course, it might (because I'm not biased...)
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The C4 programme, 900 hours per annum, recent Ryanair incidents, etc, etc were all discussed in an Irish paper today. The consensus on Irish Radio this morning among the radio pundits was that Ryanair has done a great pre-emptive job on Channel 4, but that the programme could be the start of something. In other words, it is all to be played for, but Ryanair have done well in PR management terms.
Interestingly the pundits had a lot of trouble getting their minds around the 900 hours maximum for pilots in the light of reports that some pilots can actually exceed 900 hours in a year. It was encouraging to see that pundits are as confused as the rest of us about the operation of the IAA 900 hour limit. One pundit, a Russian economist, speculated that 900 hours was really designed for long haul pilots and that it needs to be increased for short haul pilots.
Interestingly the pundits had a lot of trouble getting their minds around the 900 hours maximum for pilots in the light of reports that some pilots can actually exceed 900 hours in a year. It was encouraging to see that pundits are as confused as the rest of us about the operation of the IAA 900 hour limit. One pundit, a Russian economist, speculated that 900 hours was really designed for long haul pilots and that it needs to be increased for short haul pilots.
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The point has been made that this programme will cause unfair harm to Ryanair. In fact the mudying of the waters on this forum, by Ryanair's letters and by other means has just caused the judgement to be of reasonable doubt and therefore Ryanair can not be found 'guilty' and will continue to tread their fine line. However I would hope if any serious assertions are made in the programme, with apparent factual backing, that the IAA and the CAA will investigate. I believe that they would have to, to clear Ryanair and themselves of 'allowing' such wrong doings to happen.
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Crackers!!
The way i see it is if Ryanair are willing to do a live or unedited interview with Channel 4 then it seems they really dont have anything to hide especially when they haven't seen the programme. However the fact that channel 4 who are not willing to do a live or unedited interview makes one wonder what they have got to hide!!
P.s well said Tartan Giant!!
P.s well said Tartan Giant!!
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However I would hope if any serious assertions are made in the programme, with apparent factual backing, that the IAA and the CAA will investigate. I believe that they would have to, to clear Ryanair and themselves of 'allowing' such wrong doings to happen.
Are they going to broadcast the IAA and CAA findings, clearing Ryanair's name, in the form of a follow-up documentary at Channel 4 prime time?
Of course they aren't! As far as the viewing public are concerned, Ryanair will remain guilty of whatever is claimed, or hinted at, or insinuated on Monday.
It stinks.
I hope Ryanair find a way to take Channel 4 to the cleaners, including a claim for revenue lost as a result of so called "impartial journalism".
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Originally Posted by arewenearlythereyet?
Short of publishing something covered under the official secrets act there is nothing you can do about it.
The GPS issue is a red herring. Two GPS are fitted in a B737-800 and the MEL allows one to be inoperative, or even both if BRNAV RNP can be met from other sources. There are many B737 aircraft flying in Europe that are not fitted with GPS at all.
The only really valid point they have is the crew fatigue issue. "Average 18 flying hours per week" is meaningless in fatigue prevention terms. This is because (so I have been told) Ryaniar zero the counter on 1 April. The fact that a pilot spent most of February and March on standby will do nothing to mitigate his fatigue at the end of August having been flying very close to 100 hours in each rolling 28 days throughout the summer. Ryanair operate to a Flight Time Limitations scheme agreed with the Irish Aviation Authority that is less stringent than the United Kingdom regulations for the Avoidance of Fatigue in Aircrew (CAP 371). This gives them a commercial advantage over their main rival at Stansted.
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Am I the only person who is having a problem reconciling the string of anti-C4 posters here who seem to feel that whatever is going to appear simply must be misleading?
Just to reorient my mind I revisited the Ryan-be-fair website a few minutes ago to remind myself about the realities of cabin crew life in Ryanair (see: http://www.ryan-be-fair.org/messagebd.htm ). The usual claims about anonymous and biased remarks, etc. notwithstanding, this site is no different from PPRUNE and other sources in providing a host of material that should generate at least some suspicions in any impartial visitor that all is not entirely well in the Ryanair Empire.
All websites, newspapers, TV companies, pilots’ associations, etc. must act in a manner that anticipates a Ryanair legal attack (PPRUNE has had several). What is known and what can be said and proved are different things. I am disappointed by the venom towards C4 in respect of a programme that has not even been transmitted. Caution, or suspicion, or whatever may well be merited, but the Ryanair PR machine has apparently already done a good job in muddying the waters to a sufficient extent that no matter what the programme says, it may well get lost.
I am very much with those who (a) want to see the programme first, and (b) want to see the evidence before reaching a conclusion. I would even hazard a guess that it might even be necessary to read between the lines on occasions, something which will require a bit more detachment than has been demonstrated by some posters.
Just to reorient my mind I revisited the Ryan-be-fair website a few minutes ago to remind myself about the realities of cabin crew life in Ryanair (see: http://www.ryan-be-fair.org/messagebd.htm ). The usual claims about anonymous and biased remarks, etc. notwithstanding, this site is no different from PPRUNE and other sources in providing a host of material that should generate at least some suspicions in any impartial visitor that all is not entirely well in the Ryanair Empire.
All websites, newspapers, TV companies, pilots’ associations, etc. must act in a manner that anticipates a Ryanair legal attack (PPRUNE has had several). What is known and what can be said and proved are different things. I am disappointed by the venom towards C4 in respect of a programme that has not even been transmitted. Caution, or suspicion, or whatever may well be merited, but the Ryanair PR machine has apparently already done a good job in muddying the waters to a sufficient extent that no matter what the programme says, it may well get lost.
I am very much with those who (a) want to see the programme first, and (b) want to see the evidence before reaching a conclusion. I would even hazard a guess that it might even be necessary to read between the lines on occasions, something which will require a bit more detachment than has been demonstrated by some posters.
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Originally Posted by atse
Really!!!??? It's such a relief to discover that I have been so confused for the past couple of years. At least I can stop worrying now. Thanks skysoarer for pointing out the errors of my ways.
Anyway... even when I joined pprune 5 years back there were numerous Ryanair rants. It's exactly the same now! *sigh*
Lets just watch the programme, have a good laugh, leave the PR to MOL and carry on. They're at the bottom of my list to send applications to as I simply couldn't afford the TR with their deal.
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