Korean Air Pay Cuts Looming
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This is your "GENTLEMAN OF STEEL" 
KEiOnU really has hit the nail on the head! Excellent comments and all so true!
Now that the Korean's are firmly at the helm, we are now back to a level one carrier and the sooner all the foreign managers are removed from their positions, we shall enter into SKYTEAM's consortium.
The Korean FCU (flight crew union) will take whatever steps they consider necessary to have all foreign managers removed, one by one.
KEiOnU really has hit the nail on the head! Excellent comments and all so true!
Now that the Korean's are firmly at the helm, we are now back to a level one carrier and the sooner all the foreign managers are removed from their positions, we shall enter into SKYTEAM's consortium.
The Korean FCU (flight crew union) will take whatever steps they consider necessary to have all foreign managers removed, one by one.
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Message For John Barnes:
If you are thew John Barnes from TBG - you are certainly no "GENTLEMAN".
Thank the lord you're not with Korean Air.
Message For kimchikal:
Lovely comments and I support you and the KAL FCU all the way.
If you are thew John Barnes from TBG - you are certainly no "GENTLEMAN".
Thank the lord you're not with Korean Air.
Message For kimchikal:
Lovely comments and I support you and the KAL FCU all the way.
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I am on a layover in Seoul, and traveled on the subway. The people I met were wonderful, helpful and friendly. One guy got off the train to take me to the building I was headed for and then got back on the train to complete his journey. I could not have been made to feel more welcome.
Why then the vitriol from Kimchikal, Kalpilot and KEIonu? What rock did those guys crawl out from? Do they really expect anyone with half a brain or more to sympathise with them? When the pilots they support did run the airline, correct me if I am wrong, but it had an abysmal record of safety, this being one of the main reasons the foreigners were called in to help. If the assistance offered has not been successful, maybe it is due to a lack of cooperation from the locals, ever think of that, guys?
Why then the vitriol from Kimchikal, Kalpilot and KEIonu? What rock did those guys crawl out from? Do they really expect anyone with half a brain or more to sympathise with them? When the pilots they support did run the airline, correct me if I am wrong, but it had an abysmal record of safety, this being one of the main reasons the foreigners were called in to help. If the assistance offered has not been successful, maybe it is due to a lack of cooperation from the locals, ever think of that, guys?
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TO: YELLOW DUST
What rock did you crawl out of?
You're probably new to KAL (or Asiana) and you've got a lot to learn!
Please tell me one thing positive that any of the ACP's have done since their appointments 2 years ago?
Why haven't any of the ACP's or anyone else mentioned in my earlier postings defended themselves on this thread?
Why, I'll tell you.....because they all know I'm right, and you need only ask many of the foreign pilots if what I have been saying is right, and a large majority of them will agree with my comments and observations.
Dead weight is what they (the ACP's) were, and now they have been removed! Well done to KAL's management.
What have QA done since this department was established? Once again, why hasn't anyone from QA responded to my postings? QA comprises of a group of geriatric, semi-retired local and foreign captains who hop on an off various fleets checking line pilots and LCP's, but no reports are published and no action has been taken against any line captain or LCP if their performance has been found to be less than satisfactory. It's the "let's not rock the boat" syndrome, and another means of earning a little more salary!
The former B744 ACP has now been offered the position of Assistant to the VP Line Operations, and as his term as ACP on the 744 was an absolute farce, why has this same "gentleman" been selected for this new position? Ass-licking we all presume.
Another grey day in KAL, and the days will only become darker as time goes by!
So, if any ACP, LCP or QA Auditor wold like to defend themselves, please speak up and post a thread.
Hope that answers your questions "Yellow Dust"?
What rock did you crawl out of?
You're probably new to KAL (or Asiana) and you've got a lot to learn!
Please tell me one thing positive that any of the ACP's have done since their appointments 2 years ago?
Why haven't any of the ACP's or anyone else mentioned in my earlier postings defended themselves on this thread?
Why, I'll tell you.....because they all know I'm right, and you need only ask many of the foreign pilots if what I have been saying is right, and a large majority of them will agree with my comments and observations.
Dead weight is what they (the ACP's) were, and now they have been removed! Well done to KAL's management.
What have QA done since this department was established? Once again, why hasn't anyone from QA responded to my postings? QA comprises of a group of geriatric, semi-retired local and foreign captains who hop on an off various fleets checking line pilots and LCP's, but no reports are published and no action has been taken against any line captain or LCP if their performance has been found to be less than satisfactory. It's the "let's not rock the boat" syndrome, and another means of earning a little more salary!
The former B744 ACP has now been offered the position of Assistant to the VP Line Operations, and as his term as ACP on the 744 was an absolute farce, why has this same "gentleman" been selected for this new position? Ass-licking we all presume.
Another grey day in KAL, and the days will only become darker as time goes by!
So, if any ACP, LCP or QA Auditor wold like to defend themselves, please speak up and post a thread.
Hope that answers your questions "Yellow Dust"?
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Scary for potential SLF too!
411A, I imagine you know the answer to your question but the Wall Street Journal of Dec 7 ran a front page story suggesting that political pressure was behind the expedited FAA review of KAL.
KE Devil, take the trouble to look upthread at Huck's post.
411A, I imagine you know the answer to your question but the Wall Street Journal of Dec 7 ran a front page story suggesting that political pressure was behind the expedited FAA review of KAL.
KE Devil, take the trouble to look upthread at Huck's post.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
The postings by the Korean "gentlemen" on this thread indicate (to me) that KAL's run of accidents are a long way from over!
It now appears (from comments by the Koprean contributors) Korean Air has only "tolerated" the presence of foreigners to expedite their upgrade to Group 1, and with that achieved KAL will revert to its previous structure.
Time will tell.
Certainly NOT my choice of employer, and a carrier I'll avoid at ALL costs!
It now appears (from comments by the Koprean contributors) Korean Air has only "tolerated" the presence of foreigners to expedite their upgrade to Group 1, and with that achieved KAL will revert to its previous structure.
Time will tell.
Certainly NOT my choice of employer, and a carrier I'll avoid at ALL costs!
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To Kimchikal,
What rock did you crawl out of?
I may not be a part of the infamous KAL, but there is a time and place to rant a rave. It is not "gentleman" like to post the internal problems of any company and especially expect someone to defend one's self in a forum like PPRuNe. I suggest that you go talk to the ACP is there is a problem.
Never bite the hand that feeds you. If it wasn't for the expats, I'm sure that KAL would be worse off. KAL has a long way to go.
Once a "ja-shiek" always a "ja-shiek" !!!
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: Mad Dog Driver ]
What rock did you crawl out of?
I may not be a part of the infamous KAL, but there is a time and place to rant a rave. It is not "gentleman" like to post the internal problems of any company and especially expect someone to defend one's self in a forum like PPRuNe. I suggest that you go talk to the ACP is there is a problem.
Never bite the hand that feeds you. If it wasn't for the expats, I'm sure that KAL would be worse off. KAL has a long way to go.
Once a "ja-shiek" always a "ja-shiek" !!!
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: Mad Dog Driver ]
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Kimchikal, my question was not in fact answered. I asked if the people you excoriate failed to change things for the better because of a lack of cooperation from the locals...but wait, I guess you did answer me.
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Getting away from the subject of ACP’s ,QA Auditors and senior management, lets look at some of the B744 line captains and LCP’s from South Africa.
Many of these South African pilots came to Korean some years ago through their Australian contractor and they jointly and knowingly mislead management into believing they were experienced B744 captains with South African Airways. In fact, these pilots had no B744 command experience and the only command time they had was on the B737.
Some of these captains now hold senior line positions with Korean Air as LCP’s and DLCP’s on the B744. How would this look if there were to be another incident or accident involving one of these pilots? The Korean Air insurers would have a field day.
Korean Air management became aware of this several months into their (the South Africans) training, but were too embarrassed to do anything about it. Criminal don’t you think.
So, the next time you hear a South African accent over the PA, use the on-board satellite phone and make sure your insurance policies are up to date for the sake of your families.
Hope you all found this posting interesting!
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
Many of these South African pilots came to Korean some years ago through their Australian contractor and they jointly and knowingly mislead management into believing they were experienced B744 captains with South African Airways. In fact, these pilots had no B744 command experience and the only command time they had was on the B737.
Some of these captains now hold senior line positions with Korean Air as LCP’s and DLCP’s on the B744. How would this look if there were to be another incident or accident involving one of these pilots? The Korean Air insurers would have a field day.
Korean Air management became aware of this several months into their (the South Africans) training, but were too embarrassed to do anything about it. Criminal don’t you think.
So, the next time you hear a South African accent over the PA, use the on-board satellite phone and make sure your insurance policies are up to date for the sake of your families.
Hope you all found this posting interesting!
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Towers ]
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Foreign South African Captains are very terrible pilots with very little experience and knowledge of B744 operations. Many F/O's dislike operating with these Captains and wish they did not remain in Korea.
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Cripes, it's a bloody nightmare waiting to re-happen. You guys make me so greatful to have never gone anywhere near KAL. I have a foreign devil friend who stayed about 4 months, couldn't handle the locals in KAL, particularly on the flight deck. Everything that involved discussion over issues with a decision, that had already been pre-empted by the local, but rolled by the foreign devil, was a lose of face. Like bloody school kids, he described it. Even bottom lips dropping in school kid fashion. I laughed when I heard it, but I can see by some of these postings, it’s highly probable.
Had no problem outside work. Sensitive prats comes to mind, but his description was more colourful. It surely comes through here by you local contributors. He sincerely regretted joining them, and was glad to leave them, and that was another story in its self.
Your SA Captain, if he was full of p.1.5.5., deserves all he gets, but look at the way you're talking. Shiet mate, your CRM is even worse, and will lead to another one of your famous accidents.(And you've had some doozies!!) It's only time, the way you are rabbit -ting on here, as Kaptin M says.
Your suggestion that Management should answer you on an open public forum is ludicrous. Are you sure you work for an airline, or an internet café chain store. Get real, and get practical, and do your own work. Go and see them, face to face, and sought it out. Or put pen to paper, with your real name, and spell out your story. %U$K the English, use Korean, but make it factual, not vindictive and venomous. It’s your airline, what have you got to lose. Ohhh yes, your anonymity.
Hope you guys get it soughted, but I am telling you, I won’t be recommending anyone to fly with your firm whilst this attitude is displayed. Incredible!
Had no problem outside work. Sensitive prats comes to mind, but his description was more colourful. It surely comes through here by you local contributors. He sincerely regretted joining them, and was glad to leave them, and that was another story in its self.
Your SA Captain, if he was full of p.1.5.5., deserves all he gets, but look at the way you're talking. Shiet mate, your CRM is even worse, and will lead to another one of your famous accidents.(And you've had some doozies!!) It's only time, the way you are rabbit -ting on here, as Kaptin M says.
Your suggestion that Management should answer you on an open public forum is ludicrous. Are you sure you work for an airline, or an internet café chain store. Get real, and get practical, and do your own work. Go and see them, face to face, and sought it out. Or put pen to paper, with your real name, and spell out your story. %U$K the English, use Korean, but make it factual, not vindictive and venomous. It’s your airline, what have you got to lose. Ohhh yes, your anonymity.
Hope you guys get it soughted, but I am telling you, I won’t be recommending anyone to fly with your firm whilst this attitude is displayed. Incredible!
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I've heard people who've worked in Korea make some rather outrageous comments about the… err… I think the phrase was 'poisonous atmosphere' that exists between the expats and the local pilots/management and thought they simply had to be exaggerating. But if some of the posts on this thread supposedly written by Korean KAL pilots actually were written by Korean national pilots who fly the line for KAL, I now see that they were not exaggerating at all.
If I was an insurance assessor reading this thread, I'd be very, very worried if my company had any exposure to a KAL hull. Whatever premium you're charging, gents, it simply isn't enough. And the really scary part is that, judging from the tone of the posts that so concern me, the people involved can not see / will not see that there's anything to worry about in the attitude they display.
If I was an insurance assessor reading this thread, I'd be very, very worried if my company had any exposure to a KAL hull. Whatever premium you're charging, gents, it simply isn't enough. And the really scary part is that, judging from the tone of the posts that so concern me, the people involved can not see / will not see that there's anything to worry about in the attitude they display.
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John ....
What you see here is not indicative of the typical environment at Korean. I suspect that several of the "posters" to this thread are really a single "im-poster" who is deliberately trying to spread his poisonous viewpoint and make it appear more widespread than it is.
The real truth is that there are some very difficult and challenging individuals at KE, but there are also many very hard-working and capable Korean pilots, especially amongst the younger non-military group.
If the latter group is ever able to shake free from the traditions that have been passed along by 30 years of military cronyism the company has the potential for a bright future.
What you see here is not indicative of the typical environment at Korean. I suspect that several of the "posters" to this thread are really a single "im-poster" who is deliberately trying to spread his poisonous viewpoint and make it appear more widespread than it is.
The real truth is that there are some very difficult and challenging individuals at KE, but there are also many very hard-working and capable Korean pilots, especially amongst the younger non-military group.
If the latter group is ever able to shake free from the traditions that have been passed along by 30 years of military cronyism the company has the potential for a bright future.
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Dammmm, so come guys should I continue flying with Korean Air as a passenger or not? Reading this thread has surely rattled my nerves once more. Disunity only leads to Disaster. As for the South African pilots....are you kidding me, are they really terrible imposter pilots????