BA Cabin Crew and American Visas
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BA Cabin Crew and American Visas
For the uninitiated who do not know what is going on, could someone explain why BA CC have are having difficulty with the American welcoming commitee please? The gist gathered from another thread (something about Tampa) is that their is some kind of problem for CC renewing visas to enter the United States.
This raises 2 further questions, which demonstrate the complete ignorance of the correspondent on immigration matters vis a vis international travel:-
1) Do British CC require work permits to fly to the US since they do not actually work in the US (aircraft on the British Register are UK Sovereign territory as far as I am aware)
2) How is it that if the answer to Q1 is yes, this is not a mere formality?
(welcoming commitee = INS in winedrinkerspeak.)
Please note this is not meant to be the beginning of another America bashing thread, it is just a quest for knowledge, likewise "cheese eating surrender monkey" type replies will not enhance the correspondent's knowledge of the subject. Furthermore the use of the word correspondent is that of "One who communicates by means of letters" not "One employed by the print or broadcast media to supply news stories or articles". Just so you know. "Why are you asking then?" I hear you ask. Well, corny as it sounds, some of us still retain our curiosity. And I know it is neither rumours nor news but hey, no-one else cares.
This raises 2 further questions, which demonstrate the complete ignorance of the correspondent on immigration matters vis a vis international travel:-
1) Do British CC require work permits to fly to the US since they do not actually work in the US (aircraft on the British Register are UK Sovereign territory as far as I am aware)
2) How is it that if the answer to Q1 is yes, this is not a mere formality?
(welcoming commitee = INS in winedrinkerspeak.)
Please note this is not meant to be the beginning of another America bashing thread, it is just a quest for knowledge, likewise "cheese eating surrender monkey" type replies will not enhance the correspondent's knowledge of the subject. Furthermore the use of the word correspondent is that of "One who communicates by means of letters" not "One employed by the print or broadcast media to supply news stories or articles". Just so you know. "Why are you asking then?" I hear you ask. Well, corny as it sounds, some of us still retain our curiosity. And I know it is neither rumours nor news but hey, no-one else cares.
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1) British airline crews require a C1 and D1 visa to operate into the USA.
2) Because the Americans in their wisdom treat airline crew no differently to anyone else wanting a US visa and make them queue round Grosvenor Square from 8am. Can't speak for other companies, but BA crew have to travel to get the visa renewed in their own time and at their own expense, although BA pay for the visa itself. When you consider that a large number (I would venture a majority) of BA long haul pilots and cabin crew are not residents of London or the South East (or even the UK in many cases), you can see why this is a major PITA.
It's alright to be curious, Tallbloke.
2) Because the Americans in their wisdom treat airline crew no differently to anyone else wanting a US visa and make them queue round Grosvenor Square from 8am. Can't speak for other companies, but BA crew have to travel to get the visa renewed in their own time and at their own expense, although BA pay for the visa itself. When you consider that a large number (I would venture a majority) of BA long haul pilots and cabin crew are not residents of London or the South East (or even the UK in many cases), you can see why this is a major PITA.
It's alright to be curious, Tallbloke.
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Additionally, some crew members have travelled into Central London on their day off, queued outside the Embassy for 6 to 7 hours only to have the door slammed in their faces "Closed For Lunch!"
The complete and utter disdain with which Britrish Citizens are treated by the US Embassy beggars belief and I feel we should (A) Reguse to Handle US registered aircraft in the UK and (B) Refuse to carry US Passport Holders on British aircraft until both the US and UK Governments recognise we have a serious problem that needs addressing.
This US intransigence is now costing British Airways dearly!
Another thing - why should British passport holders be subjected to 3 hours plus queueing to get through US immigration??? We missed our connections at Houston last year and had to overnight at our expense at a hotel by Houston airport as a direct result of this bureacratic nonsense. AND US Immigation officials are the rudest in the civilised world too! It's about time our Immigration clerks started a tit-for-tat action! The aviation industry needs this problem addressing urgently!
The complete and utter disdain with which Britrish Citizens are treated by the US Embassy beggars belief and I feel we should (A) Reguse to Handle US registered aircraft in the UK and (B) Refuse to carry US Passport Holders on British aircraft until both the US and UK Governments recognise we have a serious problem that needs addressing.
This US intransigence is now costing British Airways dearly!
Another thing - why should British passport holders be subjected to 3 hours plus queueing to get through US immigration??? We missed our connections at Houston last year and had to overnight at our expense at a hotel by Houston airport as a direct result of this bureacratic nonsense. AND US Immigation officials are the rudest in the civilised world too! It's about time our Immigration clerks started a tit-for-tat action! The aviation industry needs this problem addressing urgently!
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I used to enjoy visiting the US, placing high up on my list of places to keep going back to.
Now I cannot be bothered with all the hassle on arrival. Plenty of other places to explore and enjoy.
Doubt my absence will affect the tourism industry much tho'
Driftdown
Now I cannot be bothered with all the hassle on arrival. Plenty of other places to explore and enjoy.
Doubt my absence will affect the tourism industry much tho'
Driftdown
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Maybe it's a bureacrat thing to show no consideration for us plebs!
I found out recently that the British Embassy in Luxembourg no longer issues passports. No I don't know why either.
Anyway, I was told I'd have to apply via Paris. I CAN apply by post, but I only if I pay with a French bank account cheque or postal order AND with a French proof of posting form! Not many UK citizens living in Lux will have either.
I accept that passport issuing can be centralised, but it needs to be accesible by everyone forced has to use it.
Still I suppose I could always make the 7 hour round trip, take the day off work and apply in person.....
I found out recently that the British Embassy in Luxembourg no longer issues passports. No I don't know why either.
Anyway, I was told I'd have to apply via Paris. I CAN apply by post, but I only if I pay with a French bank account cheque or postal order AND with a French proof of posting form! Not many UK citizens living in Lux will have either.
I accept that passport issuing can be centralised, but it needs to be accesible by everyone forced has to use it.
Still I suppose I could always make the 7 hour round trip, take the day off work and apply in person.....
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I think crew only require the Crewmans Visa, which I believe is the C1 . The other (D1) is a normal tourist visa, done at the same time as a courtesy to crew. As for the hassle of travelling to the US Embassy, I do wonder what some pprune posters would suggest as an alternative?
A posters question "Another thing - why should British passport holders be subjected to 3 hours plus queueing to get through US immigration??? " Probably because , the average Brit doesn't have the correct pasport, or on the case of some of the pax on my flight (and unfortunately ahead of me in the immigration queue), don't know their left finger from their right finger, causing the computer system to lock up for 10 mins while the Immigration Officer rebooted his Windows driven computer.
IMHO, the USA does perceive a potential terrorist threat from the UK , perhaps as a result of our safe haven immigration policies?. As a result, some of us are forced to jump through these frustrating hoops. BTW, a lot of crew avoided all this on BA advice and renewed their visas early. This meant avoiding the need to pop up to central London "for a chat". It was widely promulgated at the time in the various company publications.
What I think is a shame, are the people who given any problem or hardship will take the opportunity to take it out on the pax or the company.
A posters question "Another thing - why should British passport holders be subjected to 3 hours plus queueing to get through US immigration??? " Probably because , the average Brit doesn't have the correct pasport, or on the case of some of the pax on my flight (and unfortunately ahead of me in the immigration queue), don't know their left finger from their right finger, causing the computer system to lock up for 10 mins while the Immigration Officer rebooted his Windows driven computer.
IMHO, the USA does perceive a potential terrorist threat from the UK , perhaps as a result of our safe haven immigration policies?. As a result, some of us are forced to jump through these frustrating hoops. BTW, a lot of crew avoided all this on BA advice and renewed their visas early. This meant avoiding the need to pop up to central London "for a chat". It was widely promulgated at the time in the various company publications.
What I think is a shame, are the people who given any problem or hardship will take the opportunity to take it out on the pax or the company.
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Maxy101 said "What I think is a shame, are the people who given any problem or hardship will take the opportunity to take it out on the pax or the company".
I totally agree and you only have to watch any of those Airport programs on TV to realise what industry insiders have known for years - the average pax leaves their brain at home when travelling (I'm being generous here......)
Is it still true that airlines are fined $2,000 for every pax who does not have the correct docs on arrival in the USA?
I totally agree and you only have to watch any of those Airport programs on TV to realise what industry insiders have known for years - the average pax leaves their brain at home when travelling (I'm being generous here......)
Is it still true that airlines are fined $2,000 for every pax who does not have the correct docs on arrival in the USA?
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The Crew visa for the US is the "D" visa. All visiting crewmwmbers are required to have this.
Not too many years ago, when I had to renew my "D" visa, I sent it to the US Embassy in London - registered post. When it failed to return some while later, I went through the tracing process via the Post Office.
It turned out that it had been received by the US Embassy, but then they lost it - along with quite a few others! They openly admitted that this was an ongoing problem that they had, losing many passports constantly! They paid for a replacement.
After that I always go to the Embassy personally and wait in line. Hours at a time
Not too many years ago, when I had to renew my "D" visa, I sent it to the US Embassy in London - registered post. When it failed to return some while later, I went through the tracing process via the Post Office.
It turned out that it had been received by the US Embassy, but then they lost it - along with quite a few others! They openly admitted that this was an ongoing problem that they had, losing many passports constantly! They paid for a replacement.
After that I always go to the Embassy personally and wait in line. Hours at a time
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Is it still true that airlines are fined $2,000 for every pax who does not have the correct docs on arrival in the USA?
Even worse, is the fact that all passengers' passport details have to be sent electronically to US immigration as the flight departs the UK. The US have the power (as we witnessed a few weeks ago) to turn an aircraft back mid-flight if they don't like the look of someone's entries!
Personally, I like the USA and have always got on particularly well with the big-hearted people of Texas - but this bureacratic nonsense and "attitude" of immigration staff is diabolical!
WTF are our Diplomats doing??? Allowing George Bush to shaft Britain yet again!
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Additionally, some crew members have travelled into Central London on their day off, queued outside the Embassy for 6 to 7 hours only to have the door slammed in their faces "Closed For Lunch!"
The complete and utter disdain with which Britrish Citizens are treated by the US Embassy beggars belief and I feel we should (A) Reguse to Handle US registered aircraft in the UK and (B) Refuse to carry US Passport Holders on British aircraft until both the US and UK Governments recognise we have a serious problem that needs addressing.
********
Strong words BEALINE . But dont get all worked up! People from sone nationalities have had to que up for visas for the past so many decades!
If it is of any comfort to you, my nationality and passport allows me to land up in a grand total of 5 countries (or is it six???) without getting a visa in advance! Everywhere else the wait takes from a couple of days to a month!
The last time I came to your part of the world, I had to wait at my local British consulate for 30 hours literally non stop - about 10 hours of it in an exposed area in pouring rain before I could even get in! 1st day I started my wait at a very civilised hour of 1 AM and then the door was slammed shut for the day at 11.30! Was back in the que at 4 PM the same day for trying to get in next day (was still about 10 th in the que) and finally my visa interview was over at 11 AM and the visa through by 5 PM on day II. All in all a mere 35 hours queing up!
Now this did not mean that I got all hot and bothered like you are for queing to get a visa to USA. I merely accepted the inconveniences I faced in getting a UK visa as something resulting fom the privilege of a country to lay down the necessary rules as they may deem fit to regulate the visit of citizens of another country! And I would be the first to say, that atleast in my case I enjoyed the year I spent in your country to the maximum after getting my visa.
The complete and utter disdain with which Britrish Citizens are treated by the US Embassy beggars belief and I feel we should (A) Reguse to Handle US registered aircraft in the UK and (B) Refuse to carry US Passport Holders on British aircraft until both the US and UK Governments recognise we have a serious problem that needs addressing.
********
Strong words BEALINE . But dont get all worked up! People from sone nationalities have had to que up for visas for the past so many decades!
If it is of any comfort to you, my nationality and passport allows me to land up in a grand total of 5 countries (or is it six???) without getting a visa in advance! Everywhere else the wait takes from a couple of days to a month!
The last time I came to your part of the world, I had to wait at my local British consulate for 30 hours literally non stop - about 10 hours of it in an exposed area in pouring rain before I could even get in! 1st day I started my wait at a very civilised hour of 1 AM and then the door was slammed shut for the day at 11.30! Was back in the que at 4 PM the same day for trying to get in next day (was still about 10 th in the que) and finally my visa interview was over at 11 AM and the visa through by 5 PM on day II. All in all a mere 35 hours queing up!
Now this did not mean that I got all hot and bothered like you are for queing to get a visa to USA. I merely accepted the inconveniences I faced in getting a UK visa as something resulting fom the privilege of a country to lay down the necessary rules as they may deem fit to regulate the visit of citizens of another country! And I would be the first to say, that atleast in my case I enjoyed the year I spent in your country to the maximum after getting my visa.
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Driftdown is wrong if he believes that the tourist industry will NOT miss him. Noticed a plethora of advertisements on TV lately all saying what a great place the US is? Reason quite simply is that, like Driftdown, a large number of the SLF that used to enjoy a holiday in the States no longer regard it as being worth the hassle.
A great shame because the people there are fantastic and the service second to none.
In the long run financial pressures will always work better than any politician and at some time, hopefully in the not too distant future, sense will prevail. Before then of course we have to suffer the next hurdle, the need to have a biometric passport to gain entry.
A great shame because the people there are fantastic and the service second to none.
In the long run financial pressures will always work better than any politician and at some time, hopefully in the not too distant future, sense will prevail. Before then of course we have to suffer the next hurdle, the need to have a biometric passport to gain entry.
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The problem with the US requiring visas for UK citizens (and many others) goes back to a conference in 1948. Following the Second World War all the nations agreed that free access to each others territories was a good thing.
Every country then signed...apart from the US. From then on British Crews and citizens required visas to enter the US but American Crews coming to the UK and Europe did not. No British Government ever did anything to correct this anomaly or retaliate by insisting on US crew and citizens requiring visas to enter the UK.
I remember a mixed US and Brit crew arriving in Japan. The Brits were allowed in with much courtesy on a bare passport while the Americans were berated and fined for daring to enter without visas. Perhaps the Japanese have the right idea.
Don't blame the immigration guys, they are simply trying to make sense of the political directives. Write instead to your MP or the US Embassy.
Every country then signed...apart from the US. From then on British Crews and citizens required visas to enter the US but American Crews coming to the UK and Europe did not. No British Government ever did anything to correct this anomaly or retaliate by insisting on US crew and citizens requiring visas to enter the UK.
I remember a mixed US and Brit crew arriving in Japan. The Brits were allowed in with much courtesy on a bare passport while the Americans were berated and fined for daring to enter without visas. Perhaps the Japanese have the right idea.
Don't blame the immigration guys, they are simply trying to make sense of the political directives. Write instead to your MP or the US Embassy.
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More difficult to get crewing to do a large batch as finger prints now required.
Take a brolley and ensure "Vital Actions" are completed prior to queuing as the are no amenities until you get inside.
Passport was back in 4 days part of which was a w/e.
Take a brolley and ensure "Vital Actions" are completed prior to queuing as the are no amenities until you get inside.
Passport was back in 4 days part of which was a w/e.
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France has required Visas for US crews for years.
I will say they were quick and courteous when I went to the French Embassy in DC to get one.
Look at the bright side of coming to the USA. The Thousands Standing Around (TSA) will give you a free colonoscopy upon arrival.
Hopefully regime change in 4 years.
I will say they were quick and courteous when I went to the French Embassy in DC to get one.
Look at the bright side of coming to the USA. The Thousands Standing Around (TSA) will give you a free colonoscopy upon arrival.
Hopefully regime change in 4 years.
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What about GEN-DECS??? Are these not used for airline crew to get in and out of countries without Visa's.
Or are the Americans above this and think it is not secure enough???!!!!!!
Or are the Americans above this and think it is not secure enough???!!!!!!
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Many would be shocked at the treatment UK immigration officials give to those who live and work in the UK but hold a non-UK passport. It is exactly the same as that complained about US officials.
SFO immigration had become extremely friendly, efficient and quick in my last visit - perhaps they are changing?
SFO immigration had become extremely friendly, efficient and quick in my last visit - perhaps they are changing?
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Dunno if this helps
Been to the US twice in January, and entered both times with NO queues at all, even when arriving Coach (on UA with checked baggage).
The reason I believe? I came in thru Washington in transit, and obviously they don't want to delay/inconvenience domestic flights and so ensure they have sufficient staff to deal with the arrivals.
Not sure if this works, but is it possible to arrive thru the Transit door and exit the airport...?
Oh, and they were pleasant to deal with also, although I must admit to having met my share of awkward b@stards last year...
Been to the US twice in January, and entered both times with NO queues at all, even when arriving Coach (on UA with checked baggage).
The reason I believe? I came in thru Washington in transit, and obviously they don't want to delay/inconvenience domestic flights and so ensure they have sufficient staff to deal with the arrivals.
Not sure if this works, but is it possible to arrive thru the Transit door and exit the airport...?
Oh, and they were pleasant to deal with also, although I must admit to having met my share of awkward b@stards last year...
Still behind the curtain
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Went through Immigration at ATL two weeks ago from AMS with a Latvian Embassy issued US passport -- much different from the ones they issue now. This one has the numbers perforated throughout the passport.
Going through immigration was a breeze. I actually went to the "others" line because it was shorter. Cleared within 10 minutes with a comment of "have a nice day."
Then my luggage was lost on Delta and I didn't have a nice day until two days later.
Going through immigration was a breeze. I actually went to the "others" line because it was shorter. Cleared within 10 minutes with a comment of "have a nice day."
Then my luggage was lost on Delta and I didn't have a nice day until two days later.