MAN- World's LEAST (Crew) favourite airport
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MAN- World's LEAST (Crew) favourite airport
Manchester Airport(UK) describes itself as the "World's favourite airport". Yet the staff car parks are a shambles as is the bus service which connects them. There is no staff channel and they have made a bloody-minded point of closing the "fast track" entrance to us. Does anyone else think they deserve to be awarded "least favourite" status.
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Seconded. The office staff get more status than aircrew at MAN.
Not a negative note against office staff understand, I was one once and may be again depending on my next medical but they don't work shifts 7 days a week
Not a negative note against office staff understand, I was one once and may be again depending on my next medical but they don't work shifts 7 days a week
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Thirded! When they start to understand that the crew actually get there pax off the ground , then maybe they might start to make our lives a bit easier.As oposed to parking us in a very full bundu,which is only going to get further away if they get there way.
KEEP SMILING
[ 08 August 2001: Message edited by: bertieb ]
KEEP SMILING
[ 08 August 2001: Message edited by: bertieb ]
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One of our captains was told to 'get to the back of the queue' and accused of queue jumping by a member of MAPLC staff the other day whilst going through the security check. He did note their name and intends to raise the matter. Does make you wonder about the self declared status!
PP
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Many many moons ago, Manch security insisted that all of our crew members had Manch security ID cards..... they just couldnt understand that in the course of one week we would be in 4 or 5 different airports, having ID cards for each and every airport was totally impossible.
This resulted in a total crew getting refused access to an aircraft, the crew didnt care, but the 200 pax in the terminal would have created a stink.......
Manch security gave in once they were advised of the consequences of their actions....
Userfriendly........ NOPE.
This resulted in a total crew getting refused access to an aircraft, the crew didnt care, but the 200 pax in the terminal would have created a stink.......
Manch security gave in once they were advised of the consequences of their actions....
Userfriendly........ NOPE.
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I work in ops - was going tdown to a-c to do Jepp amendments (in jeans/t shirt and YELLOW VEST) and was asked by security operative
'do you work on apron - I said no, I was going to an a-c ' and asked why - she said - 'if you work on the apron, you are not allowed to walk out through terminal, you have to go out through North Gate' - god forbid the public catch a glimpse of 'unwashed' baggage loaders or maintenance personnel - on the subject of unwashed - I think some of the MAPLC male 'gestapo' are strangers to the life buoy .......
'do you work on apron - I said no, I was going to an a-c ' and asked why - she said - 'if you work on the apron, you are not allowed to walk out through terminal, you have to go out through North Gate' - god forbid the public catch a glimpse of 'unwashed' baggage loaders or maintenance personnel - on the subject of unwashed - I think some of the MAPLC male 'gestapo' are strangers to the life buoy .......
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I have no problem with the airport it's self, but I would dispute the worlds favourite tag. I mean what about Amsterdam, Singapore, Osaka, Hong Kong etc? It's the city of manchester that's the problem. Along with it's claim of "Second City" when Birmingham, Glasgow and Liverpool all have greater populations (1998 figures) than it, perhaps they mean Greater manchester. It does have the biggest (their own claim)shopping mall in the UK. I've enjoyed better lay-overs in Sudbury, Timmins, North Bay, Moose jaw, Rimouski, Chibougamou and Nitchigon than in manchester. 
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All the above agreed and not suprising.
CarParking a sham, attitude to flight crew indifferent and downright obstructive at times.
Worth changing base for, the worst airport I have had the unfortunate pleasure of being based at.
CarParking a sham, attitude to flight crew indifferent and downright obstructive at times.
Worth changing base for, the worst airport I have had the unfortunate pleasure of being based at.
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Seriously, is there no Airport Users Committee, made up from the user airlines and various other agencies that use the airport and pay their dues? They should meet with airport management at least once a month.
You will only get things changed if the people who sign the cheques (to the airport authority)get involved and that means your airline management acting on a united front with other airlines, ideally at such meetings. Since the problem of access to aircraft hardly ever affects them they won't do anything until they are pushed, by you and your unions/associations.(Q.Why are airline management and seagulls so alike? A.You have to throw rocks at them to make them fly).
Freddie Laker once described airport security personnel as "The worst of the Unemployable"
Finally, you are up against one of the oldest and worst traits amongst different branches of aviation, sheer jealousy and a perverse delight in trying to belittle you in front of the travelling public.
[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: addinfurnightem ]
You will only get things changed if the people who sign the cheques (to the airport authority)get involved and that means your airline management acting on a united front with other airlines, ideally at such meetings. Since the problem of access to aircraft hardly ever affects them they won't do anything until they are pushed, by you and your unions/associations.(Q.Why are airline management and seagulls so alike? A.You have to throw rocks at them to make them fly).
Freddie Laker once described airport security personnel as "The worst of the Unemployable"
Finally, you are up against one of the oldest and worst traits amongst different branches of aviation, sheer jealousy and a perverse delight in trying to belittle you in front of the travelling public.
[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: addinfurnightem ]
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I just have luck to thank that i am not based at MCT the security staff are the rudest and most obstructive i have ever come across.
This attitude of macho security should be investigated by the DTI as the rift that is opening up between security and other staff makes one reluctent to report things that might have a security implication for fear of the over the top reaction that this might have.
Airport security must be a team effort if it is to be effective and cannot work properly with the "them and us" attitude of the people at MCT this has to be a trainning problem and the blame rests firmly with the management.
What can you and i do about it ? .
I sugest that next time you have a problem report it not to the MCT management who will try an agressive cover up (probably trying to take away your airport pass and so your job)but to the DTI who probably are reading this and have a good idea of how these muppets work and just need some ammunition, the aim of this is to improve security through cooperation not build a nice little security empire with a fat pension at the end for the cover your @rse types at the top.
This attitude of macho security should be investigated by the DTI as the rift that is opening up between security and other staff makes one reluctent to report things that might have a security implication for fear of the over the top reaction that this might have.
Airport security must be a team effort if it is to be effective and cannot work properly with the "them and us" attitude of the people at MCT this has to be a trainning problem and the blame rests firmly with the management.
What can you and i do about it ? .
I sugest that next time you have a problem report it not to the MCT management who will try an agressive cover up (probably trying to take away your airport pass and so your job)but to the DTI who probably are reading this and have a good idea of how these muppets work and just need some ammunition, the aim of this is to improve security through cooperation not build a nice little security empire with a fat pension at the end for the cover your @rse types at the top.
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Manchester Disaster airport, they cant organise a thing.
Operating an aircraft at Manchester is terrible.
The taxi ways are at best a slalom. sending passangers and cabincrew form one side to another, the new runway is a disaster.
Since the new runway has opened, i have held more been routed further on arrivals and departures, increased fuel burn and experienced more delays...
The taxi across the active runway is an accident waiting to happen, the holding point and taxiway designators are confusing.
Please close the new runway and go back to the efficient arrival and departures we used to have. The new runway is not needed, several southern airports run their one runway more efficiently than Man run two.
As for security...
Operating an aircraft at Manchester is terrible.
The taxi ways are at best a slalom. sending passangers and cabincrew form one side to another, the new runway is a disaster.
Since the new runway has opened, i have held more been routed further on arrivals and departures, increased fuel burn and experienced more delays...
The taxi across the active runway is an accident waiting to happen, the holding point and taxiway designators are confusing.
Please close the new runway and go back to the efficient arrival and departures we used to have. The new runway is not needed, several southern airports run their one runway more efficiently than Man run two.
As for security...
I totally agree with all the previous messages.
Can someone confirm just who and what organisation the security staff are responsible to and exactly what rights we and the general pax have when passing through the system. For instance can we ask for the name and ID number of a member of Airport staff, who we consider to be offensive, can we dask for the attendance of a senior security official. Surely they must have some rules to abide by, but you would not think so.
Can someone confirm just who and what organisation the security staff are responsible to and exactly what rights we and the general pax have when passing through the system. For instance can we ask for the name and ID number of a member of Airport staff, who we consider to be offensive, can we dask for the attendance of a senior security official. Surely they must have some rules to abide by, but you would not think so.
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K76, Ultimate responsibility for aviation security in the UK rests with the DETR, who incidently ,are currently doing spot checks at MAN.As ground crew at MAN we are continually banging our heads against a wall with security.The private security companies such as ADI and ICTS seem to be far more clued up but as A&C said it goes back to the training.Without meaning to sound a snob most of the MAplc security staff appear to have been dragged out of the council estates of Wythenshawe and appear not to have any intelligence whatsoever.
Incidentally, and this is rumour,why is the worlds favourite airport about to lose PIA, Malaysia airlines and Air Mauritius ? Because it is so expensive to operate from and the facilities are so poor.Yes they will spend money on an extension to the departure lounge (which looks like an upgraded toilet block) to enable more shops and therefore more profit for Geoff Muirhead, but they wont spend any money on decent facilities for staff I.E. a decent staff car park.
Rant over !
Incidentally, and this is rumour,why is the worlds favourite airport about to lose PIA, Malaysia airlines and Air Mauritius ? Because it is so expensive to operate from and the facilities are so poor.Yes they will spend money on an extension to the departure lounge (which looks like an upgraded toilet block) to enable more shops and therefore more profit for Geoff Muirhead, but they wont spend any money on decent facilities for staff I.E. a decent staff car park.
Rant over !
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Oh dear.
Whilst not based at MAN, I have used it's good offices many many times.
Car parking is dreadful if you are sentenced to staff west.
Security staff? Well they have never been rude to me. I'm sure it happens, but it must be the exception rather than the rule. I find that if you are polite to people and treat them with respect, it makes it very difficult for them to treat with you contempt. (OK some people work at it)
There was certainly a staff channel in T2 last week.
How exactly is the runway system an accident waiting to happen. If you have a single runway then aircraft must enter it whilst others are on approach or on the landing or take-off roll. With MAN's two runway system this is also the case. Whats the difference?
Taxi-way designators are confusing. They were much more logical until they were changed 5 or 6 years ago. This is not a MAN problem as all airports (in the UK) have been made to adopt this appalling ICAO standard.
Now how about the baggage handling system in T2. Causes more delays than the Clacton sector on a stormy day.
The lifts in T2? I fear for my life sometimes. People certainly age visibly in the time they take to get between floors.
What is for certain is that MAN draws more flack on this forum than every other UK airport. I wonder if they are listening.
[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: Bally Heck ]
Whilst not based at MAN, I have used it's good offices many many times.
Car parking is dreadful if you are sentenced to staff west.
Security staff? Well they have never been rude to me. I'm sure it happens, but it must be the exception rather than the rule. I find that if you are polite to people and treat them with respect, it makes it very difficult for them to treat with you contempt. (OK some people work at it)
There was certainly a staff channel in T2 last week.
How exactly is the runway system an accident waiting to happen. If you have a single runway then aircraft must enter it whilst others are on approach or on the landing or take-off roll. With MAN's two runway system this is also the case. Whats the difference?
Taxi-way designators are confusing. They were much more logical until they were changed 5 or 6 years ago. This is not a MAN problem as all airports (in the UK) have been made to adopt this appalling ICAO standard.
Now how about the baggage handling system in T2. Causes more delays than the Clacton sector on a stormy day.
The lifts in T2? I fear for my life sometimes. People certainly age visibly in the time they take to get between floors.
What is for certain is that MAN draws more flack on this forum than every other UK airport. I wonder if they are listening.
[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: Bally Heck ]
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At least we get payed for it!Spare a thought for the pax.Try arriving at T2 with Granny,sprogs ,prams and bags then transfering to Domestic with less than 2 hours to spare.Count the lifts,enjoy the view of the dungeons,chat to Vasco de Gama who is lost around Airtours checkin.Fun for all the familly.
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411A
I believe you are right, in my own experience manchester is the fourth most depressing place I have layed-over in the last 15 years. The three ahead of it, in order, are Kabul, Mogadishu and Banjul (Bathurst). I much prefer MAN as crew rather than as a pax.
Mancheste as a whole (hole) does seem to exagerate, worlds favourite airport and UK's second city, are just a couple of it's false claims but they are also self delusioned with it. I ask you, who in their right mind would consider Manchester for the Olympics? Yes I know, it was just an attempt at garnering some publicity, but they coudn't even get that right, receiving nothing but derision from world sporting circles. But they do have the UK's biggest shopping mall
I believe you are right, in my own experience manchester is the fourth most depressing place I have layed-over in the last 15 years. The three ahead of it, in order, are Kabul, Mogadishu and Banjul (Bathurst). I much prefer MAN as crew rather than as a pax.
Mancheste as a whole (hole) does seem to exagerate, worlds favourite airport and UK's second city, are just a couple of it's false claims but they are also self delusioned with it. I ask you, who in their right mind would consider Manchester for the Olympics? Yes I know, it was just an attempt at garnering some publicity, but they coudn't even get that right, receiving nothing but derision from world sporting circles. But they do have the UK's biggest shopping mall
Manchesters Most Wanted PPRuNer
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freddyfokker - hmmmmmmm you must be one of the the first to truly complain about new runway ops - especially considering you reckon you're being delayed 'cause of R2
Without wishing to sound in any way aggressive or "snotty" (that is not my intention at all - I am intrigued) I cannot for the life of me think of why you feel you have been "routed further on arrivals and departures".
We have the hard facts to prove that much much much less holding has been taking place and departures certainly have not been re-routed by any considerable amount - infact only the introduction of the HONILEY SID has affected the departure track mileage at all. And even that should be applauded a little given it's reason for introduction being 100% environmental.
Surely you cannot be serious (man)??
Arrivals are not being vectored in any way differently to how they were pre-R2 and the location of the actual holds has, of course, not altered either.
So that's the arrivals and departures dealt with!
As for being efficient I think you will find that our movement rates have shown a vast improvement post-R2 (back me up with figures here some kind colleague please!), we actually broke the movement record only last week
Whilst admittedly there are some small issues "perhaps" regarding ground movements and allocation of stands, I am somewhat surprised that you don't believe things on the ATC / flight ops side of things are efficient.
I am also most concerned as to why you find the holding point and taxiway designators so confusing....seriously. If you have any ideas on how they can be vastly improved please please let us know - we do realise that there may be some confusion regarding the new crossing points et al and yes, the taxiway numbering system is not what you would call perfect! What is it though you...or anyone else....finds confusing and so dangerous about them? Please tell us so we in ATC know and can perhaps do something about it!
Drifting back on topic for a moment I totally agree that the car parking difficulties are a pain in the a**e, the rumours drifting around about Burtonwood (yes, that's Burtonwood folks!) are surely not for real?
Can't really comment on security....every time I have been airside (not that often) all has been fine.
Hope this helps anyway freddyfokker - any constructive input greatly appreciaited - as I said
Oh yes and I know for a fact MAPLC are most definitely "listening" here.......hullo
<Good job I don't get paid to spell x2!!!!!!>
[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: niteflite01 ]
[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: niteflite01 ]
Without wishing to sound in any way aggressive or "snotty" (that is not my intention at all - I am intrigued) I cannot for the life of me think of why you feel you have been "routed further on arrivals and departures".
We have the hard facts to prove that much much much less holding has been taking place and departures certainly have not been re-routed by any considerable amount - infact only the introduction of the HONILEY SID has affected the departure track mileage at all. And even that should be applauded a little given it's reason for introduction being 100% environmental.
Surely you cannot be serious (man)??
Arrivals are not being vectored in any way differently to how they were pre-R2 and the location of the actual holds has, of course, not altered either.
So that's the arrivals and departures dealt with!
As for being efficient I think you will find that our movement rates have shown a vast improvement post-R2 (back me up with figures here some kind colleague please!), we actually broke the movement record only last week
Whilst admittedly there are some small issues "perhaps" regarding ground movements and allocation of stands, I am somewhat surprised that you don't believe things on the ATC / flight ops side of things are efficient.
I am also most concerned as to why you find the holding point and taxiway designators so confusing....seriously. If you have any ideas on how they can be vastly improved please please let us know - we do realise that there may be some confusion regarding the new crossing points et al and yes, the taxiway numbering system is not what you would call perfect! What is it though you...or anyone else....finds confusing and so dangerous about them? Please tell us so we in ATC know and can perhaps do something about it!
Drifting back on topic for a moment I totally agree that the car parking difficulties are a pain in the a**e, the rumours drifting around about Burtonwood (yes, that's Burtonwood folks!) are surely not for real?
Can't really comment on security....every time I have been airside (not that often) all has been fine.
Hope this helps anyway freddyfokker - any constructive input greatly appreciaited - as I said
Oh yes and I know for a fact MAPLC are most definitely "listening" here.......hullo
<Good job I don't get paid to spell x2!!!!!!>
[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: niteflite01 ]
[ 09 August 2001: Message edited by: niteflite01 ]