Court Win May Change Future of Air travel
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max-cont summed up the situation perfectly. . .Assuming 233 seats are charged at £200 each, you would need to charge over £300 if the aircraft was in a 150 seat fit.
This would add £400 to the cost of a family holiday and make it impossible for many families to travel to the sun. Virtually every customer would opt for a cheaper deal. Any airline that initiated a price increase unilaterally would be out of business in weeks.
This case has achieved one thing for the industry: From now on there can be no excuse for anyone complaining about the threat of DVT, cramped legs, bruised knees or whatever. Every consumer now knows that charter flights are uncomfortable and, in some peoples views, dangerous to health. They also know that there is a "safe alternative" available to them at the time of purchase called Business or First class, albeit at up to 20 times the cost.
Perhaps the charters should place a notice in all their brochures stating the "dangers" and discomforts and quoting the costs of the available "safe" and comfortable alternatives.
This would add £400 to the cost of a family holiday and make it impossible for many families to travel to the sun. Virtually every customer would opt for a cheaper deal. Any airline that initiated a price increase unilaterally would be out of business in weeks.
This case has achieved one thing for the industry: From now on there can be no excuse for anyone complaining about the threat of DVT, cramped legs, bruised knees or whatever. Every consumer now knows that charter flights are uncomfortable and, in some peoples views, dangerous to health. They also know that there is a "safe alternative" available to them at the time of purchase called Business or First class, albeit at up to 20 times the cost.
Perhaps the charters should place a notice in all their brochures stating the "dangers" and discomforts and quoting the costs of the available "safe" and comfortable alternatives.
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Things may not have been helped by the Government. This text extracted from an article in the DTel, last May.
Charter airlines have threatened to reduce the numbers of "premium" seats on some long-haul flights following the doubling of Air Passenger Duty to £40.
Customs and Excise ruled that "premium" seats were to be taxed in the same way as business-class seats.
Britannia Airways was charging a supplement of between £60 and £95 return for the Extra seats, which had a 34in seat pitch. The standard seat pitch for charter flights is just 30in.
Britannia used to have 24 Extra seats on all long-haul flights, plus 24 more expensive Premium seats. They now have 31 Premium seats on their flights to medium- and long-haul destinations, such as Florida and the Caribbean, for a supplement of £120 to £195 return. Its Premium seats offer 35in leg-room, in addition to upgraded meals and complimentary alcoholic drinks.
Air 2000 said that it was not making any money on "premium" seats on some routes since the rise in Air Passenger Duty.
"On Cyprus, for example, the supplement for Classic Premium is just £49 and the Government is now taking £40 of that," said a spokeswoman. "We have thought about getting rid of Classic Premium on some routes, but we are going to stick with it for the time being."
Other charter airlines that are continuing to offer premium seats include Monarch Airlines and Airtours International.
Charter airlines have threatened to reduce the numbers of "premium" seats on some long-haul flights following the doubling of Air Passenger Duty to £40.
Customs and Excise ruled that "premium" seats were to be taxed in the same way as business-class seats.
Britannia Airways was charging a supplement of between £60 and £95 return for the Extra seats, which had a 34in seat pitch. The standard seat pitch for charter flights is just 30in.
Britannia used to have 24 Extra seats on all long-haul flights, plus 24 more expensive Premium seats. They now have 31 Premium seats on their flights to medium- and long-haul destinations, such as Florida and the Caribbean, for a supplement of £120 to £195 return. Its Premium seats offer 35in leg-room, in addition to upgraded meals and complimentary alcoholic drinks.
Air 2000 said that it was not making any money on "premium" seats on some routes since the rise in Air Passenger Duty.
"On Cyprus, for example, the supplement for Classic Premium is just £49 and the Government is now taking £40 of that," said a spokeswoman. "We have thought about getting rid of Classic Premium on some routes, but we are going to stick with it for the time being."
Other charter airlines that are continuing to offer premium seats include Monarch Airlines and Airtours International.
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Lou Scannon, you’re dead right. The most likely scenario is an amendment to the conditions of carriage. It will be along the lines that by purchasing this holiday you accept and understand that your comfort is not guaranteed during the flight. It will probably require that you waive your rights to seek compensation, in any form should this be the case. The alternative will be to arrange your own tickets. I’m sure some very high-powered (and expensive) legal minds will be appointed to draw up this disclaimer.
The rest of the public will choose their affordable holiday and relax.
The rest of the public will choose their affordable holiday and relax.
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White knight I couldn't agree more.
But since we have some real tosh being posted here comparing airline seats to buying cars etc.. let's take some of the nonsense to its logical conclusion, and see if the arguments stack up.
A good example is this, 'passengers want the cheapest flight possible, and yet want more comfortable seats for nothing extra'. Well let's just consider this, the CAA minimum seat pitch allowable is 26", so why is it that Britannia have around 28", monarch and airtours similarly. None of them use the legal mimimum seat pitch. If market conditions were genuinely being driven by the desire to keep costs (and fares) low, all budget and charter airlines would have the legal minimum seat pitch. Wouldn't they?
BUT THEY DON'T - why is that??
Similarly, the argument is put forward that if a given charter airline were to increase its seat pitch by say two inches (thereby increasing the cost of the flight), they would lose so much business, they would face financial ruin. If that is so, and the earlier argument is also correct, then clearly there is a killing to be made in the aviation industry. Someone please tell JMC, Brittania and airtours, that a lot of money can be made overnight by dropping the seat pitch from 28" to the legal minimum of 26".
Let's see who does it first. OR, is it due to the realisation that a seat pitch of 26" would be completely intolerable? From a logical point of view, doesn't that then make the use of the safety minimum (26"), irrelevant when discussing COMFORT.
Most of the so-called arguments put forward for not increasing seat pitch, are really not very sound at all. I think in this matter, there is an inherent element of not even considering the idea, as that is the way it always has been etc...
As regards this notion of choice, many charter flight do not have 'premium seats' available, and so anyone over about 5'9" inches or so can either sit in misery and real severe pain for eight hours or not travel abroad. From a personal perspective, if I cannot book extra leg room seats (for a fee), then I do not book the trip or holiday. And this has happened many times.
I've said it before, Joe punter generally has no idea what the flight comfort will be like when booking a trip. Check common holiday brochures, each one stresses how good and enjoyable the flight will be and not one says, if you are over 5'10" tall, the seats will be way too small and grossly uncomfortable, and you really must pay for an upgrade or do not travel.
The point is this, the passenger in this case, had no idea how truly teeny weeny the seats would be. He expected a degree of comfort (no doubt from the brochure). No one warned him otherwise.
Overall it's all very silly, why don't all airlines just agree on a standard minimum comfort seat pitch, and that would put an end to a lot of speculation and problems.
As regards the point made regarding an airline only making £9 on a £49 premium upgrade, anyone with a basic knowledge of airline economics knows a lot of the money on charters is made not from the seat price, but the extras, headsets, duty free (at seriously dodgy exchange rates), ice cream and drinks. Oh, and don't forget the scratchcards. They also make money from people like me who pay £40 extra to reserve wing exit seats (these seats would exist even if not charged for).
But since we have some real tosh being posted here comparing airline seats to buying cars etc.. let's take some of the nonsense to its logical conclusion, and see if the arguments stack up.
A good example is this, 'passengers want the cheapest flight possible, and yet want more comfortable seats for nothing extra'. Well let's just consider this, the CAA minimum seat pitch allowable is 26", so why is it that Britannia have around 28", monarch and airtours similarly. None of them use the legal mimimum seat pitch. If market conditions were genuinely being driven by the desire to keep costs (and fares) low, all budget and charter airlines would have the legal minimum seat pitch. Wouldn't they?
BUT THEY DON'T - why is that??
Similarly, the argument is put forward that if a given charter airline were to increase its seat pitch by say two inches (thereby increasing the cost of the flight), they would lose so much business, they would face financial ruin. If that is so, and the earlier argument is also correct, then clearly there is a killing to be made in the aviation industry. Someone please tell JMC, Brittania and airtours, that a lot of money can be made overnight by dropping the seat pitch from 28" to the legal minimum of 26".
Let's see who does it first. OR, is it due to the realisation that a seat pitch of 26" would be completely intolerable? From a logical point of view, doesn't that then make the use of the safety minimum (26"), irrelevant when discussing COMFORT.
Most of the so-called arguments put forward for not increasing seat pitch, are really not very sound at all. I think in this matter, there is an inherent element of not even considering the idea, as that is the way it always has been etc...
As regards this notion of choice, many charter flight do not have 'premium seats' available, and so anyone over about 5'9" inches or so can either sit in misery and real severe pain for eight hours or not travel abroad. From a personal perspective, if I cannot book extra leg room seats (for a fee), then I do not book the trip or holiday. And this has happened many times.
I've said it before, Joe punter generally has no idea what the flight comfort will be like when booking a trip. Check common holiday brochures, each one stresses how good and enjoyable the flight will be and not one says, if you are over 5'10" tall, the seats will be way too small and grossly uncomfortable, and you really must pay for an upgrade or do not travel.
The point is this, the passenger in this case, had no idea how truly teeny weeny the seats would be. He expected a degree of comfort (no doubt from the brochure). No one warned him otherwise.
Overall it's all very silly, why don't all airlines just agree on a standard minimum comfort seat pitch, and that would put an end to a lot of speculation and problems.
As regards the point made regarding an airline only making £9 on a £49 premium upgrade, anyone with a basic knowledge of airline economics knows a lot of the money on charters is made not from the seat price, but the extras, headsets, duty free (at seriously dodgy exchange rates), ice cream and drinks. Oh, and don't forget the scratchcards. They also make money from people like me who pay £40 extra to reserve wing exit seats (these seats would exist even if not charged for).
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Flypastpastfast. You are correct in that it is a fine line between what the customers want and what they will accept. Airline X carried around 3 million passengers last year. (If my memory is correct) Questionnaires are distributed on all return sectors. They are asked to comment on all aspects of their holiday experience and flight. The vast majority of customers seem to be happy. If a customer complains, staff at Airline X encourages them to put it in writing and send it to the CEO.
Airline X has to my knowledge increased the seat pitch in it’s fleet of longhaul aircraft. I don’t know whether this was as a result of the questionnaires giving a less than acceptable score in relation to comfort.
I repeat. The vast majority of customers seem satisfied. If that is not the case, then it is up to Airline X’s customers to indicate this when given the opportunity to do so during the return flight.
Speaking from a personal point of view, I have had this discussion with passengers on quite a few long haul flights in the days prior to the seat pitch increase. I have not had any since.
Airline X has to my knowledge increased the seat pitch in it’s fleet of longhaul aircraft. I don’t know whether this was as a result of the questionnaires giving a less than acceptable score in relation to comfort.
I repeat. The vast majority of customers seem satisfied. If that is not the case, then it is up to Airline X’s customers to indicate this when given the opportunity to do so during the return flight.
Speaking from a personal point of view, I have had this discussion with passengers on quite a few long haul flights in the days prior to the seat pitch increase. I have not had any since.
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Questions - If, as a result of this case, all charter carriers agreed today that an increase in seat pitch was required.... .<ul type="square">1. How long would this take to physically fit and feed through to the point of sale?. .2. If certain a/c types become uneconomic (757-200?) at increased pitch, how quickly could carriers re-equip?. .3. During a transitional period, would all passengers have a theoretical right to sue, pending the completion of the reconfig?. .4. Final question, and this must be the biggie - what is acceptable seat pitch - 30", 32" or 34" plus. A previous post mentions a pax of 6'7" -what seat pitch is appropriate, and if the seat pitch was increased to say 36", would not the carrier still be vulnerable to a lawsuit from a discomforted pax?. .[/list]
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As someone who's 6'6' well proportioned - I'd love to hear the justification for some of the American airlines that charge the earth for business travellers and then cram them in to seats that a dwarf would be uncomfortable in.
Now where's that lawyer's name.
Now where's that lawyer's name.
Paxing All Over The World
Friends of mine, or office colleagues, that talk about going on charters always moan but I cannot see them paying more. If I mention paying extra (either mileage or cash) for Premium Economy/Club, they think that I am barmy to pay the extra. [I am ov average height and build]
The questions I should like to ask are these:
IT and charter operators in continental Europe - do they use the same pitch as the UK ones?
Do their customers pay, broadly, the same amount per Euro per seat mile?
Do our neighbours complain about seat pitch?
Is it just the Brits that have misunderstood the way packages are priced and sold?
The questions I should like to ask are these:
IT and charter operators in continental Europe - do they use the same pitch as the UK ones?
Do their customers pay, broadly, the same amount per Euro per seat mile?
Do our neighbours complain about seat pitch?
Is it just the Brits that have misunderstood the way packages are priced and sold?
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pax boy
it seems to be an issue of cultures across the EU.
In jmc our 757-200's are configured to carry 235. Condor, our German 'sister' airline configure theirs to less(can't think off the top of my head what it is exactly) I think around 180.
It appears that the UK charter holiday maker is driven far more by cost of the product and is willing to shop around for the 'best' deal, be it saving only £10, whereas our German charter holiday makers seem more descerning and pay 2 to 3 times the price for their package to the same destination.
It is a cultural thing and while the vast majority are willing to pay less and accept the tight seats the only way it is going to change is if the authorities step in and increase the minimum above 28". This case may force the change, but as has already been pointed out an appeal may be successful and 'disclaimers' may be introduced.
PP
it seems to be an issue of cultures across the EU.
In jmc our 757-200's are configured to carry 235. Condor, our German 'sister' airline configure theirs to less(can't think off the top of my head what it is exactly) I think around 180.
It appears that the UK charter holiday maker is driven far more by cost of the product and is willing to shop around for the 'best' deal, be it saving only £10, whereas our German charter holiday makers seem more descerning and pay 2 to 3 times the price for their package to the same destination.
It is a cultural thing and while the vast majority are willing to pay less and accept the tight seats the only way it is going to change is if the authorities step in and increase the minimum above 28". This case may force the change, but as has already been pointed out an appeal may be successful and 'disclaimers' may be introduced.
PP
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Hey PP ,. .One other thing to consider with the Germans is the size of their Glutomus Maximus, far larger on average than your normal lard arse Brits.! and the fact that the Germans are far more driven by what their customers think of their service, we Brits are thought of purely as numbers, and most retail sellers be they Holiday company or super markets, couldn't care less about our custom.
However it would be intersting to see what the CAA think about the safety issue of seat pitches , compared with the lack of ability to take up the suggested "Crash Position".. . I am only 5'9" and have a pretty large frame(Rugby Size) so by modern day size's I am on the short side, but on some of the holidays that I have recently been on I have not been able to read the free paper's that have been given out, my sons are much taller than me, and after the last Holiday( that cost us £8500 for four) we have decided as a family that we are not going like that again, so if we cannot find a good seat pitch we will not travel, If all air travellers took that stance, we would soon see a change.
However it would be intersting to see what the CAA think about the safety issue of seat pitches , compared with the lack of ability to take up the suggested "Crash Position".. . I am only 5'9" and have a pretty large frame(Rugby Size) so by modern day size's I am on the short side, but on some of the holidays that I have recently been on I have not been able to read the free paper's that have been given out, my sons are much taller than me, and after the last Holiday( that cost us £8500 for four) we have decided as a family that we are not going like that again, so if we cannot find a good seat pitch we will not travel, If all air travellers took that stance, we would soon see a change.
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vfrpilot
points noted about the differences between Brits and Germans, the 'cultural' differences are reflected in what the airlines provide, ie they customer gets what he wants; in Germany the customer is willing to pay more for a service that he wants and will probably be more critical of so the airline provides the seat pitch which provides for him, similarly, the UK customer, as I have said seems in general to be solely driven by cost, hence the situation we find ourselves in. Unfortunately the airlines cannot take a lead individually by increasing seat pitch because the core customer will desert them in favour of the 'cheaper' competition.
Hence my stance that the authorities are the ones who need to force change on all of us if they deem the seat pitch too restrictive, or, alternatively the average Brit needs to follow your lead and always opt for a larger seat pitch and be willing to pay for it, which needs a cultural change.
PP
points noted about the differences between Brits and Germans, the 'cultural' differences are reflected in what the airlines provide, ie they customer gets what he wants; in Germany the customer is willing to pay more for a service that he wants and will probably be more critical of so the airline provides the seat pitch which provides for him, similarly, the UK customer, as I have said seems in general to be solely driven by cost, hence the situation we find ourselves in. Unfortunately the airlines cannot take a lead individually by increasing seat pitch because the core customer will desert them in favour of the 'cheaper' competition.
Hence my stance that the authorities are the ones who need to force change on all of us if they deem the seat pitch too restrictive, or, alternatively the average Brit needs to follow your lead and always opt for a larger seat pitch and be willing to pay for it, which needs a cultural change.
PP
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There is only one thing worse than watching the British go on a package holiday - it's watching them return???? . . <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
I am a figment of my own imagination
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Seat pitch also seems to vary between fleet/sectors. Recent trip in BA economy JED/LHR in a 777 the seats were very roomy, the aircraft though appears to normaly operates on the longer Far Eastern sectors. A LHR/NBO in a 744 was much more uncomfortable with a tighter seat pitch despite the longer sector. Air Tours to Miami in the DC10 was very tight, the same sector in the 330 seemed better. AA Lon Dallas was bearable, Delta seemed much tighter. Virgin OK. An agonising trip with AF on a 74 in economy has resulted in avoiding travelling with that airline ever again. GO, Excaliber, Buzz, Crossair have all been sampled and tight but bearable is the comment. Saudia and Swissair stood out as comfortable. These comments have all applied to the economy sections. . . The problem is not a simple one and at the end of the day the pitch seat design sector length passenger size and shape and his or her general mood all contribute greatly to the problem of comfort. It is hardly ever going to be possible to completely satisfy all the generaly conflicting requirements of passenger and airline. . . As long as an industry minimum is adhered to, that has been arrived at by some eqitable process, it would however seem dangerous to risk opening the floodgates to an ever increasingly litigious society
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I have read this thread with interest and can't understand one thing, namely what choice when booking a package holiday do the passengers get in selection of airline. This is decided by the tour operator. I have recently booked a cruise in the Carribean with P&O and I had no choice as to the airline that will fly me out to Barbados. The airline will be Britannia. I tried to book the Premium seats but was told that seat allocation will be done at the airport at check in. Once again no choice there. I have been in this business for a great deal of time and its about time it woke up to the fact that it is carrying people not freight and people require comfort and service. I am sure that despite airlines quoting market research (has anyone seen this research)that people will pay a little extra for a comfortable journey especially on long haul. Incidently I used to work for Britannia and I dont have an axe to grind against them. I have always thought that the seats were too narrow and not enough legroom. . .As to the analogy with car purchasing that is a complete red herring and bears no relevance to reality. . .I am delighted that the Passenger who sued JMC won his case maybe now all the long suffering passengers will get more leg room, especially on long haul, even if it comes at a higher cost. . .The bean counters will be the ruination of this industry if we are not careful.
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Rover 2701
I don't think that there will be any premium seats on the Britannia P&O charter to Barbados; and when there are, they are not charged for. However if you email [email protected] and ask her for extra legroom (emergency exit) you might just get it. But don't tell her I told you. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I don't think that there will be any premium seats on the Britannia P&O charter to Barbados; and when there are, they are not charged for. However if you email [email protected] and ask her for extra legroom (emergency exit) you might just get it. But don't tell her I told you. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
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Rover 2701, there is no difference between purchasing a holiday or a car or anything else.
The seller will have a price for what is on offer. The buyer will decide if they are willing to pay. You can demand all the legroom you like, but be prepared to pay more. I cannot go to BMW and demand a 330ci for the price of a 318. If I want more, I pay more, period. It’s no good me complaining that I am uncomfortable in the 318 and therefore, BMW has a duty to give me the 330ci. Life isn’t that wonderful.
You say you worked for Brits. What was the seating configuration when you flew on the 767’s? The reason I ask is because you may find things have changed since then.
The seller will have a price for what is on offer. The buyer will decide if they are willing to pay. You can demand all the legroom you like, but be prepared to pay more. I cannot go to BMW and demand a 330ci for the price of a 318. If I want more, I pay more, period. It’s no good me complaining that I am uncomfortable in the 318 and therefore, BMW has a duty to give me the 330ci. Life isn’t that wonderful.
You say you worked for Brits. What was the seating configuration when you flew on the 767’s? The reason I ask is because you may find things have changed since then.
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These day's i only fly AA ,because they provide the most leg room overall.. .I positioned home on Ryanair a couple of weeks ago and there was no way to fit between the seats.. .Some airlines are taking the Pi**.. .I'm willing to pay more as long as i get good service and more room.
Neil
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max_cont. .The difference between an airline seat and any other consumer commodity is one of disclosure.
Frequent (informed) flyers know about seat pitch differences, will seek out this information, and then make a choice. The typical charter pax can not find this information, even if they knew enough to ask. Most airlines don't disclose it, nor do the travel agents/package operators who sell to Gen. Public. And to the majority of them the term '28 inch pitch' would be absolutely meaningless anyway.
This case was about whether consumers, sight unseen and despite their ignorance are reasonably entitled to expect a certain level of comfort and a minimum health risk. The judge apparently thought so, a decision with which I agree. . .Would you buy a car without being able to look at it, sit in it etc. ?
I doubt any UK charter airline is going to take the lead and unilaterally increase pitch, for the economic reasons already cited. UA and AA did, but at a time when loads were already declining so the effect on revenue was minimal. TW tried it in the boom times and it was a complete failure. They put the seats back in.
Much as I dislike regulation, I think this is the only way anything will change - by CAA edict. And the evacuation requirement is a red herring, apart from being ridiculously optimistic. Does anybody really think you could empty a typical charter load - kids, grannies, drunken brickies etc. - in anything like 90 seconds ? <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
And BTW, an 8-hour transatlantic flight is long-haul in my book.
[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: PaperTiger ]</p>
Frequent (informed) flyers know about seat pitch differences, will seek out this information, and then make a choice. The typical charter pax can not find this information, even if they knew enough to ask. Most airlines don't disclose it, nor do the travel agents/package operators who sell to Gen. Public. And to the majority of them the term '28 inch pitch' would be absolutely meaningless anyway.
This case was about whether consumers, sight unseen and despite their ignorance are reasonably entitled to expect a certain level of comfort and a minimum health risk. The judge apparently thought so, a decision with which I agree. . .Would you buy a car without being able to look at it, sit in it etc. ?
I doubt any UK charter airline is going to take the lead and unilaterally increase pitch, for the economic reasons already cited. UA and AA did, but at a time when loads were already declining so the effect on revenue was minimal. TW tried it in the boom times and it was a complete failure. They put the seats back in.
Much as I dislike regulation, I think this is the only way anything will change - by CAA edict. And the evacuation requirement is a red herring, apart from being ridiculously optimistic. Does anybody really think you could empty a typical charter load - kids, grannies, drunken brickies etc. - in anything like 90 seconds ? <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
And BTW, an 8-hour transatlantic flight is long-haul in my book.
[ 26 January 2002: Message edited by: PaperTiger ]</p>
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Paper Tiger, I take your point about alleged ignorance within the general public regarding aircraft seat pitch. I should point out, that comfort levels on charter airlines have long been the subject of debate among the media and watchdog type programs in the UK. To plead ignorance, you’d have had to be living in Outer Mongolia with your head stuck up a Yak.
I would not buy anything unless I knew what I was getting. A holiday can and does cost several thousand pounds (just like a car) and I always make sure I know exactly what I’m getting.
I have friends with whom I go on vacation sometimes. They always go first class or similar with a schedule airline, simply because they refuse to travel in steerage. Nothing stops anyone from booking the resort and then sorting out the flights. (Apart from the price of course) Me, I just jump on a charter flight for a fraction of the cost a sit with my knees up around my ears. The truth is, like the rest of the British holidaymakers, I’m too lazy to do the work.
Airlines have a surprising amount on influence over the CAA in my opinion. You are probably aware of the magical and seemingly automated “dispensation” agreement that most companies have regarding any rule they happen to find inconvenient. I’m sure any increased seat pitch regulation would be treated to a dispensation.
I agree that 90 seconds for a full evacuation is not enough in the real World. That it is demonstrated using only half the available exits is true, but the passengers are all ABP’s and they know what’s coming. When you watch the video, it reminds me of a military para drop. The cabin crew would make great loadmasters.
I would not buy anything unless I knew what I was getting. A holiday can and does cost several thousand pounds (just like a car) and I always make sure I know exactly what I’m getting.
I have friends with whom I go on vacation sometimes. They always go first class or similar with a schedule airline, simply because they refuse to travel in steerage. Nothing stops anyone from booking the resort and then sorting out the flights. (Apart from the price of course) Me, I just jump on a charter flight for a fraction of the cost a sit with my knees up around my ears. The truth is, like the rest of the British holidaymakers, I’m too lazy to do the work.
Airlines have a surprising amount on influence over the CAA in my opinion. You are probably aware of the magical and seemingly automated “dispensation” agreement that most companies have regarding any rule they happen to find inconvenient. I’m sure any increased seat pitch regulation would be treated to a dispensation.
I agree that 90 seconds for a full evacuation is not enough in the real World. That it is demonstrated using only half the available exits is true, but the passengers are all ABP’s and they know what’s coming. When you watch the video, it reminds me of a military para drop. The cabin crew would make great loadmasters.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: England
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> You say that most passengers won't pay £27 for. .> extra legroom. The problem is that passengers. .> are never offered such a simple choice. I. .> imagine that, if they were, the majority would. .> take it, especially on longer flights.
Spot on Pulse1.
I refuse to pay an order of magnitude more for buisness class but would gladly pay 10-20% more for 10-20% more seat pitch... and I'm only average height.
Spot on Pulse1.
I refuse to pay an order of magnitude more for buisness class but would gladly pay 10-20% more for 10-20% more seat pitch... and I'm only average height.