Court Win May Change Future of Air travel
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Between The Black Swan & The Swettenham Arms
Age: 69
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Court Win May Change Future of Air travel
Macclesfield Express (23rd Jan) has headline of a local man who has been awarded £500 against JMC Holidays for "failing to provide comfort on flight." Flight was by Airtours B767 to Canada & back. JMC considering appeal.. .Any further/more accurate news to this story?. .<a href="http://www.macclesfield-express.co.uk" target="_blank">www.macclesfield-express.co.uk</a>
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The individual claimed he had suffered DVT a claim which the court did not uphold.
From Thomas Cook Tour Operations press release;. ."JMC is extremely disappointed by the conduct of the hearing and the decision to award damages for discomfort on a CAA licensed and operative aircraft, with a valid certificate of air-worthiness.
JMC is currently taking advice on lodging an appeal. JMC would stress that the safety and comfort of its customers is its priority, operating modern aircraft and using only reputable third party carriers, all of which adhere to the CAA guidelines".
It would appear that the court awarded this sum against jmc for 'discomfort'. If the seat pitch is too tight (I assume that is what caused his discomfort) then perhaps the regulatory authority should review what it allows. On the other hand the passenger could always choose to pay more and fly with a carrier with more legroom.
PP
From Thomas Cook Tour Operations press release;. ."JMC is extremely disappointed by the conduct of the hearing and the decision to award damages for discomfort on a CAA licensed and operative aircraft, with a valid certificate of air-worthiness.
JMC is currently taking advice on lodging an appeal. JMC would stress that the safety and comfort of its customers is its priority, operating modern aircraft and using only reputable third party carriers, all of which adhere to the CAA guidelines".
It would appear that the court awarded this sum against jmc for 'discomfort'. If the seat pitch is too tight (I assume that is what caused his discomfort) then perhaps the regulatory authority should review what it allows. On the other hand the passenger could always choose to pay more and fly with a carrier with more legroom.
PP
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: manchester
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilot Pete,
You just beat me to it, I can only add that the aircraft was perfectly serviceable and certified airworthy IAW the current regulation. . .I don't think £500 will break the bank but it's the start of a worrying trend.
You just beat me to it, I can only add that the aircraft was perfectly serviceable and certified airworthy IAW the current regulation. . .I don't think £500 will break the bank but it's the start of a worrying trend.
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Charterguy,
Would that reduce his height as well? the guy was 6ft tall and well proportioned, Airlines should start to think about what they are carrying, it aint swingin beef, we all need a little more space on any aircraft journey, and I for one would try to persuade anyone NOT to fly with a tight arse operation, which seems to cover the main holiday carriers! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Would that reduce his height as well? the guy was 6ft tall and well proportioned, Airlines should start to think about what they are carrying, it aint swingin beef, we all need a little more space on any aircraft journey, and I for one would try to persuade anyone NOT to fly with a tight arse operation, which seems to cover the main holiday carriers! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Delay? What delay?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: London, England
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats all very well Vfr, but the British Holiday punter wants to pay 99 quid for his/her family two weeks in Alicante, and expects to be given top service. Unfortunately there is always an airline prepared to offer that, which leads to more seats per a/c, smaller pitch, less comfort (poss safety?).
Well said vfrpilotpb.
Recent surveys have shown that the average size of your average Brit has risen by at least one and a half sizes in the last ten years. I think airlines should consider facts like these when arranging their seat pitches.
Recently I travelled to Paphos on a MON A300-600. I must stress I'm only 5'7" and of average proportions but I felt really cramped in the seat I was allocated (both ways!).
Perhaps schedule airlines who operate to IT destinations pitch their seats differently to charter airlines. Can anyone comment on this?
Recent surveys have shown that the average size of your average Brit has risen by at least one and a half sizes in the last ten years. I think airlines should consider facts like these when arranging their seat pitches.
Recently I travelled to Paphos on a MON A300-600. I must stress I'm only 5'7" and of average proportions but I felt really cramped in the seat I was allocated (both ways!).
Perhaps schedule airlines who operate to IT destinations pitch their seats differently to charter airlines. Can anyone comment on this?
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancs,U.K.
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
quite agree with vfrpilot.. .We went to the Gambia with JMC and paid extra for decent seats.In spite of this the seat pitch was a joke and when the people in front reclined their seats I couldn't even turn the page on my newspaper.I stood in the aisle for 3 hrs as it was more comfortable.
As a regular traveller I welcome this shot across the bows of the airlines. Although my personal experience of charter flights has been more favourable than that on economy travel with BA, my boss has just had a very worrying experience on a Britannia flight from Cairo to Gothenburg. The passenger next to him was thirsty and asked for a drink. He was told that any drink, even water, could only be purchased using Swedish krone or sterling. As he only had Egyptian money they would not serve him. Fortunately for him, and possibly Britannia if he had become ill, my boss bought the drink for him. As I understand that drinking water is highly recommended to reduce the risk of DVT, this seems to be totally unacceptable and airlines who practice this should, in my view, be severely dealt with by the courts.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Listen guys
I'm not defending tight seat pitches, I'm six foot tall and not 'well built' and I do find them uncomfortable too, but, and it's a big BUT, as Mishandled has pointed out the seat pitch is market driven limited by the authority.
So for someone like JP5A (who I assume takes some kind of interest in matters 'flying' by his/her presence here) you know what you are getting when you go 'bargain bucket' on your holiday so why complain after the event? If it was a one off and you genuinely didn't realise the seat pitch well vote with your feet and spend twice as much for your scheduled airline ticket next time.
The fact is that this person has been given a 'compensatory' amount of money for 'discomfort' when the carrier and tour operator were operating within the guidlines set down by the regulatory authority. Do I take it that next time I get on the crew bus from the long stay car park and it's jam packed I can get some compensation (even though it was not my choice to have to use it!)? Or next time my wife commutes into London on the 7:52 to Vctoria she can make a claim for not getting a seat?
Joking aside this could seriously affect the market in these already troubled times, if carriers are forced to increase their seat pitches for the few who are prepared to pay more to the detriment of the vast majority who book package holidays and who are purely driven by cost which in many cases equates to affordability.
PP
ps. what about a compensation claim for the F/O's seat; you know the one that every fleet has that you can never quite adjust the same as all the others!!!!
I'm not defending tight seat pitches, I'm six foot tall and not 'well built' and I do find them uncomfortable too, but, and it's a big BUT, as Mishandled has pointed out the seat pitch is market driven limited by the authority.
So for someone like JP5A (who I assume takes some kind of interest in matters 'flying' by his/her presence here) you know what you are getting when you go 'bargain bucket' on your holiday so why complain after the event? If it was a one off and you genuinely didn't realise the seat pitch well vote with your feet and spend twice as much for your scheduled airline ticket next time.
The fact is that this person has been given a 'compensatory' amount of money for 'discomfort' when the carrier and tour operator were operating within the guidlines set down by the regulatory authority. Do I take it that next time I get on the crew bus from the long stay car park and it's jam packed I can get some compensation (even though it was not my choice to have to use it!)? Or next time my wife commutes into London on the 7:52 to Vctoria she can make a claim for not getting a seat?
Joking aside this could seriously affect the market in these already troubled times, if carriers are forced to increase their seat pitches for the few who are prepared to pay more to the detriment of the vast majority who book package holidays and who are purely driven by cost which in many cases equates to affordability.
PP
ps. what about a compensation claim for the F/O's seat; you know the one that every fleet has that you can never quite adjust the same as all the others!!!!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Egcc
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pulse1
You replied as I was typing.
The case you descibe appears outrageous and could not be condoned by any airline, if true. Airlines have a duty of care whilst the passenger travels with them and refusing a basic necessity such as water would appear to breach that duty in my eyes. I can only imagine that this sort of thing is a reflection of the ever tightening grip that accountants are having on airline operations(much to the regret of crews who find that they have been put in a difficult position)
PP
You replied as I was typing.
The case you descibe appears outrageous and could not be condoned by any airline, if true. Airlines have a duty of care whilst the passenger travels with them and refusing a basic necessity such as water would appear to breach that duty in my eyes. I can only imagine that this sort of thing is a reflection of the ever tightening grip that accountants are having on airline operations(much to the regret of crews who find that they have been put in a difficult position)
PP
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Manchester
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JMC must appeal this decision. A precedent has been set, and before you know where you are everyone will be in court claiming a £500 rebate on their hols!!! The whole economic viability of charter flying could be threatened- after all if a few rows have to be pulled to give everyone an extra couple of inches then BY/JMC/MON will no longer be able to cram 235 pax on a B757- mmm perhaps its not such a bad idea after all!. . .In recent years the most comfortable holiday flight I've had (i'm 6ft 2in)was on a BY standby a/c an Air Atlanta L1011-- fantastic, an entire row to ourselves- 2 adults + 2 small children and loads of leg room. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
We all make mistakes as the the Dalek said as he climbed off the dustbin!!
We all make mistakes as the the Dalek said as he climbed off the dustbin!!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Pointy End
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well folks, like everything in life…you get what you pay for.
I did a little research; you may like the results.
Theory: I want to go on holiday to BGI with my girlfriend Travelling MAN to BGI staying in a 4T hotel in Crystal Cove for seven nights all-inclusive.
Choice # 1 Pay £2070 for an all expenses holiday to BGI for a week, for two. Departing MAN returning MAN
Choice # 2 Pay BA £1397.00 for flt only ticket (economy class and the flt leaves LGW so includes the internal flt) then pay for a week in the hotel plus food.. . . .Choice # 3 Pay BA £ 4853.80 for flt only ticket (World Traveller Plus, because I am demanding more legroom) then pay for a week in the hotel and food.
Choice # 4 Pay BA £11627.80 for flt only ticket (first class, because that’s how all humans should travel) then pay for the hotel and food.
Having flown BA economy and charter, I can confirm that they are both uncomfortable. Since I am paying, I choose to go charter, just like everyone else. But I understand that if I want affordable holidays then I’m going to have to compromise.
[ 25 January 2002: Message edited by: max_cont ]</p>
I did a little research; you may like the results.
Theory: I want to go on holiday to BGI with my girlfriend Travelling MAN to BGI staying in a 4T hotel in Crystal Cove for seven nights all-inclusive.
Choice # 1 Pay £2070 for an all expenses holiday to BGI for a week, for two. Departing MAN returning MAN
Choice # 2 Pay BA £1397.00 for flt only ticket (economy class and the flt leaves LGW so includes the internal flt) then pay for a week in the hotel plus food.. . . .Choice # 3 Pay BA £ 4853.80 for flt only ticket (World Traveller Plus, because I am demanding more legroom) then pay for a week in the hotel and food.
Choice # 4 Pay BA £11627.80 for flt only ticket (first class, because that’s how all humans should travel) then pay for the hotel and food.
Having flown BA economy and charter, I can confirm that they are both uncomfortable. Since I am paying, I choose to go charter, just like everyone else. But I understand that if I want affordable holidays then I’m going to have to compromise.
[ 25 January 2002: Message edited by: max_cont ]</p>
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Valley Where the Thames Runs Softly
Age: 77
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Of course you get what you pay for, but some of the numbers don't seem to add up.
If the tightest Economy pitch is 28" and the best 34", the difference is about 20% - ergo a 20% fare hike should leave revenue neutral.
In reality the punter is left with the option of paying 2 or 3 times more to get a bit of space.
If the tightest Economy pitch is 28" and the best 34", the difference is about 20% - ergo a 20% fare hike should leave revenue neutral.
In reality the punter is left with the option of paying 2 or 3 times more to get a bit of space.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: The Deep South (Sussex)
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Great news for us consumers. We can now buy the cheapest car on the market safe in the knowledge that a court will allow us damages if the seating is cramped and we feel uncomfortable.
Better still we can pick up that bargain suit in the sales and then sue for the fact it is three sizes too small.
JMC must appeal this decision, if only in the name of sanity.
Better still we can pick up that bargain suit in the sales and then sue for the fact it is three sizes too small.
JMC must appeal this decision, if only in the name of sanity.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: The Pointy End
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pules1, charter airlines are not banks. Britannia accepts all foreign currency in note form only. If the poor chap only had a lose change in the currency in question, then yes Britannia would not accept that. Likewise I bet there aren’t many shops in Sweden who accept foreign currency as part of their normal business practise.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Manchester, England
Age: 58
Posts: 897
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
max_cont - I don't think the merits of different currencies was the issue; rather that on a long flight giving water to the SLF regularly reduces the risk of them pegging it before reaching their destination. No problem with airlines charging for everything else on board (assuming that this is reflected in the ticket price) but water should be free.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: southern england
Posts: 1,650
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are numerous sites which "claim" to know what the seat pitches are, one follows:
<a href="http://www.cheapflights.com/misc/legroom_report.html" target="_blank">http://www.cheapflights.com/misc/legroom_report.html</A>
What a pity more airlines did not follow the example of American, who increased economy from 31-32 to at least 34-35. I used them(767) to LAX last year, and had no problem. I am 6ft 2in.
<a href="http://www.cheapflights.com/misc/legroom_report.html" target="_blank">http://www.cheapflights.com/misc/legroom_report.html</A>
What a pity more airlines did not follow the example of American, who increased economy from 31-32 to at least 34-35. I used them(767) to LAX last year, and had no problem. I am 6ft 2in.
max_cont,
I have no problem with the fact that they will only accept swedish or UK money for food or proprietory drinks. What I think is poor, and dangerous, is that this passenger could not get a drink of water for FREE. Many of these airlines have gone to the expense of showing videos which encourage passengers to reduce the risk of DVT by exercising. They should also make water freely available on all flights for the same reason.
I have no problem with the fact that they will only accept swedish or UK money for food or proprietory drinks. What I think is poor, and dangerous, is that this passenger could not get a drink of water for FREE. Many of these airlines have gone to the expense of showing videos which encourage passengers to reduce the risk of DVT by exercising. They should also make water freely available on all flights for the same reason.