Is it now time to reconsider jumpseat restrictions for relatives?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Berkshire
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I agree with Devils Advocate. My young daughter would love to see what I do at work but these idiotic rules won't allow her to. I am expected though to allow access to cabin crew I don't know and who could have any type of background, so far unknown. As you say, Disclosure won't bring up their foreign activities and there are a lot of foreign cabin crew joining who haven't been in this country 5 minutes. (And no, I'm not a racist just a realist)
As for JW411, I can't imagine anyone wanting to be up there with him anyway with an attitude like that!
So yes, I think immediate relatives of the Capt/FO should be allowed to travel on the jumpseat. I worked hard to get where I am with the support of my family. Why shouldn't they be able to get some pleasure back by being able to witness the fruits of their support?
As for JW411, I can't imagine anyone wanting to be up there with him anyway with an attitude like that!
So yes, I think immediate relatives of the Capt/FO should be allowed to travel on the jumpseat. I worked hard to get where I am with the support of my family. Why shouldn't they be able to get some pleasure back by being able to witness the fruits of their support?
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
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Should never have been disallowed, all a bl00dy great over reaction!!!
We've seen many times how good a background "security" check has been
on some airline staff.
JW411, I answer this question also as someone who flies aeroplanes every day!!!
On a similar topic, when's the metal cutlery coming back? (at least to the UK and Aussie routes) Metal knives and forks very much the order of the day for most of our (EK) destinations. I really don't see the logic of crappy plastics when you can go through security to the duty free and pick up a GLASS bottle of flammable liquid
We've seen many times how good a background "security" check has been
on some airline staff. JW411, I answer this question also as someone who flies aeroplanes every day!!!
On a similar topic, when's the metal cutlery coming back? (at least to the UK and Aussie routes) Metal knives and forks very much the order of the day for most of our (EK) destinations. I really don't see the logic of crappy plastics when you can go through security to the duty free and pick up a GLASS bottle of flammable liquid
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Dublin Ireland
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Jump Seat travel
Ah, I remember the halcyon days well....A B747 on a short haul trip, 3 x crew, plus 5 staff/family in the cockpit sitting/standing whereever they could find room. Captain used his discretion wisely, cockpit door was locked, he know everyone either personally or as a family member of a staff member.
Is it asking too much to try to get back to those common sense days?
And ask for cutlery, don't get me started. Try going thru AMS - full security and metal checks, then adjacent to some of the gates, a full restaurant with steak knives etc. So it's not ok to bring them with you, but ok to get them from the airport.
The mind boggles.
Is it asking too much to try to get back to those common sense days?
And ask for cutlery, don't get me started. Try going thru AMS - full security and metal checks, then adjacent to some of the gates, a full restaurant with steak knives etc. So it's not ok to bring them with you, but ok to get them from the airport.
The mind boggles.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: HON121º/14 NM
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Disclosure Scotland is a total joke, and who ever the artist is who set it up must be rubbing his hands toghether and booking a flight to Norther Cyprus where ther is no extradition treaty.
I am GLA based. My DS details got lost or delayed, and on Aug 2nd when I turned up for work and tried to get airside I was refused. About 20 minutes of referring to supervisors, bosses of supervisors and mangers took place before I was allowed airside on production of my licence. The following day I had to report at EDI, where my BAA pass is not logged into the EDI data base. A quick glance by yer man on the Staff Search gate, and "Have a nice day, Sir." (He didn't say that, but I assume that's the rough translation from Jockanese). Laughable to my mind. And that is why I would prefer to have no one on the flight deck, other than essential crew.
If you were a surgeon would you want your wife/son/daughter/mistress/mate/husband in the operating theatre? I appreciate there is not the security issue in this case, but from a professional point of view, really, do you want them there, on your shoulder whilst you are trying to do a day's work? I don't want my family there, and I definitely don't want yours.
I am GLA based. My DS details got lost or delayed, and on Aug 2nd when I turned up for work and tried to get airside I was refused. About 20 minutes of referring to supervisors, bosses of supervisors and mangers took place before I was allowed airside on production of my licence. The following day I had to report at EDI, where my BAA pass is not logged into the EDI data base. A quick glance by yer man on the Staff Search gate, and "Have a nice day, Sir." (He didn't say that, but I assume that's the rough translation from Jockanese). Laughable to my mind. And that is why I would prefer to have no one on the flight deck, other than essential crew.
If you were a surgeon would you want your wife/son/daughter/mistress/mate/husband in the operating theatre? I appreciate there is not the security issue in this case, but from a professional point of view, really, do you want them there, on your shoulder whilst you are trying to do a day's work? I don't want my family there, and I definitely don't want yours.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Dublin Ireland
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"If you were a surgeon would you want your wife/son/daughter/mistress/mate/husband in the operating theatre? "
Bit of a difference between a cockpit and a sterile environment designed for the health and well being of sick patients.
I would love to hear your opinion if you required a J/S for either yourself or a family member and a colleague had the same attitude as you. It's very easy to tell J/S Pax to sit down, shut up, and only speak when spoken to. Have done it, and have had it done to me.
Bit of a difference between a cockpit and a sterile environment designed for the health and well being of sick patients.
I would love to hear your opinion if you required a J/S for either yourself or a family member and a colleague had the same attitude as you. It's very easy to tell J/S Pax to sit down, shut up, and only speak when spoken to. Have done it, and have had it done to me.
Controversial, moi?
Firestorm
Errr....actually I have been a guest in an operating theatre.
And yes I would like to have my brother, sister or wife on the flight deck occasionally. They would be welcome as I would make any relative of yours welcome, despite your unpleasant and blinkered attitude.
If you were a surgeon would you want your wife/son/daughter/mistress/mate/husband in the operating theatre?
And yes I would like to have my brother, sister or wife on the flight deck occasionally. They would be welcome as I would make any relative of yours welcome, despite your unpleasant and blinkered attitude.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: uk
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I would be more than happy to have one of my colleagues immediate relatives on the jump-seat, as I hope they would be to have one of mine. At the moment all my sectors are about 30mins flying time, so no chance to sit and tell them what we're doing, but great for them to watch just how busy we are.
Understandable that on a long flight, it could be a bit of a pain having someone sat in with you for a couple of hours - in that case just have them there for t/o and ldg.
There is nothing better that watching a young child's face when they come and have a look at the flight deck (on the ground of course) - I remember the good old days of being allowed up mid-flight. Totally awe-inspiring, and the kind of thing where ambitions and dreams are born.
Obviously can never get back to the way it used to be, but my folks are not going to do anything other than sit in the JS, watch me at work, and be totally proud at seeing what I have achieved.
Understandable that on a long flight, it could be a bit of a pain having someone sat in with you for a couple of hours - in that case just have them there for t/o and ldg.
There is nothing better that watching a young child's face when they come and have a look at the flight deck (on the ground of course) - I remember the good old days of being allowed up mid-flight. Totally awe-inspiring, and the kind of thing where ambitions and dreams are born.
Obviously can never get back to the way it used to be, but my folks are not going to do anything other than sit in the JS, watch me at work, and be totally proud at seeing what I have achieved.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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I should think that the problem is that fellow passengers could be alarmed by seeing people not wearing airline uniform (possible hijackers) entering flightdeck during flight. Could these fears be allayed by an appropriate PA message?
I had a number of great jumpseat rides before 9/11 and now realise that those days are long gone (or at least for a few years yet anyway).
I personally wouldn't be worried about a 'pax' lookalike entering a flight deck, as long as the person entered the FD in a controlled manner.....
IMHO anyway....
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Aotearoa
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The good old days AREN'T over ...
Take heart and hope my friends, the "good old days" are far from gone.
I am not a professional pilot, though I do work in the aviation industry.
Since September 11th 2001, I have done more jumpseating than ever before.
I have travelled FOC on the jumpseat of an Airbus 300, a Boeing 767, a 737, a Dash8, a Gulfstream IV. In the cargo hold of an F27 and a Let 410. And no, not in Africa! In the UK, Europe, and Australasia.
In at least two instances, I have been completely unkown to the crew and have done so without having to even show ID, though they were advised in advance to some degree.
Only last month I made an in-flight cockpit visit on an A330.
The things that make aviation fun are not gone. Just a little more restrictive.
The aviation world does not begin an end at British Airways. Different companies, and different countries have different regulations.
What it comes down to is a healthy dose of common sense.
Bottom line is, if someone wants to interfere with a flight, they will be able to do so, until the day everyone is marched onboard under gunpoint and strapped into their seats.
I am not a professional pilot, though I do work in the aviation industry.
Since September 11th 2001, I have done more jumpseating than ever before.
I have travelled FOC on the jumpseat of an Airbus 300, a Boeing 767, a 737, a Dash8, a Gulfstream IV. In the cargo hold of an F27 and a Let 410. And no, not in Africa! In the UK, Europe, and Australasia.
In at least two instances, I have been completely unkown to the crew and have done so without having to even show ID, though they were advised in advance to some degree.
Only last month I made an in-flight cockpit visit on an A330.
The things that make aviation fun are not gone. Just a little more restrictive.
The aviation world does not begin an end at British Airways. Different companies, and different countries have different regulations.
What it comes down to is a healthy dose of common sense.
Bottom line is, if someone wants to interfere with a flight, they will be able to do so, until the day everyone is marched onboard under gunpoint and strapped into their seats.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Above and Below Zero Lat. [Presently at least]
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Just like a Policeman takes his/her partner to a gruesome homicide, or a Surgeon takes his partner to your testicular cancer operation, or the Judge has a party on the bench whilst listening to why you screwed up the approach whilst distracted.
Get real folk, your there for one reason only, do it and do it well.
The owners set these types of policy, not pilots.
Get real folk, your there for one reason only, do it and do it well.
The owners set these types of policy, not pilots.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Netherlands
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Have a look at airliners.net, there are still plenty of shots made from the jumpseat during a flight, t/o and landing. It's just a companies policy whether people (relatives) are allowed or not.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Dublin Ireland
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Rotor,
Again, not a valid argument. No-one argues that airlines own the aircraft. However, it is within the right of every Captain in certain airlines to take qualified people in the jumpseat if he so desires.
We are not talking about joe public sitting down the back - we are talking about maybe your brother, your father, your mother, your sister - qualified staff passengers, who not doubt will have been approved well in advance of their flight, and who should be briefed on the what to do and what not to do while in the jumpseat.
This is a staff facility that I have been lucky enough to use for the last 15 years. My sister (a legal secretary) has twenty something transatlantic flights in the cockpit, thanks to very generous Captains who are not as closed-minded as others.
No-one has a God given right to a jumpseat, but we should all be grateful to the kind individuals who do accept staff and family in the cockpit.
Again, not a valid argument. No-one argues that airlines own the aircraft. However, it is within the right of every Captain in certain airlines to take qualified people in the jumpseat if he so desires.
We are not talking about joe public sitting down the back - we are talking about maybe your brother, your father, your mother, your sister - qualified staff passengers, who not doubt will have been approved well in advance of their flight, and who should be briefed on the what to do and what not to do while in the jumpseat.
This is a staff facility that I have been lucky enough to use for the last 15 years. My sister (a legal secretary) has twenty something transatlantic flights in the cockpit, thanks to very generous Captains who are not as closed-minded as others.
No-one has a God given right to a jumpseat, but we should all be grateful to the kind individuals who do accept staff and family in the cockpit.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Monrovia / Liberia
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Old Man Rotor - your clear and lucid thought reminds me now of why I don't fly 'copters ( as per your profile: BK117, S76, B212, 412, AS350, B206, H300 and R22 ).
To my knowledge, very few of your aeronautical chariots even have a flight-deck door - so, perhaps best stick to what you know, eh ?
To my knowledge, very few of your aeronautical chariots even have a flight-deck door - so, perhaps best stick to what you know, eh ?
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Old Man Rotor and more in particular JW411,
What a load of cr@p. If 9/11 hasn't happened when it did, would you have EVER thought of EVER banning a family member from the flight deck EVER????
Now that it has, you just conform to blind and idiotic policies that are designed by as valid a people as any of my relatives!!! How's about yours then. Are you afraid from your own families????
What a load of cr@p. If 9/11 hasn't happened when it did, would you have EVER thought of EVER banning a family member from the flight deck EVER????
Now that it has, you just conform to blind and idiotic policies that are designed by as valid a people as any of my relatives!!! How's about yours then. Are you afraid from your own families????
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: thelandofnod
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An interesting thread....during the height of the troubles (IRA) I happened to be travelling to Frankfurt from Heathrow with BA proudly in the possession of a PPL and the wrong passport. I however duly requested the jump seat and the friendly hostess returned and said the captain would be delighted. Having spoken only when spoken to he was a thourough gentleman and we actually kept in touch afterwards. I have travelled in the jump seat post Sept 11. I happen to be one of those who didn't make it into the ranks of those who spend their career in the pointy end of an airliner. I can say however that having passed 1,000 hours of private flying I've learnt so much sitting quietly in a jump seat. Yes I agree that you would want to know something about the background of the person sitting behind you, but is that person in the jumpseat (if bona fide) not another barrier to a potential terrorist trying to gain access, especially in smaller cockpits!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
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AF1 - for your info HM govt set the jumpseat rules, not BA or any other British airline. The fact that they're kowtowing to the yanks is a different matter 
Firestorm old bean, I've always enjoyed having visitors and jump seat riders, you speak for yourself but I have in the past helped many crew get urgently from A to B
Firestorm old bean, I've always enjoyed having visitors and jump seat riders, you speak for yourself but I have in the past helped many crew get urgently from A to B
Join Date: Jun 2000
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r we sure that jump seat rides aren't back in the states ? I think they might be already with certain airlines, as for disclosure Scotland - I,ve said it before and I'll say it again, a load of crap, just to create yet more jobs in the public sector - make Tony look good.
Just out of interest here at Manchester the pass office have lost all records of who handed in a disclosure form to get our new super dooper 'swipe passes' and are now going around company's asking them to provide evidence that they were originally checked !!! last year they couldn't issue a swipe card without a DS form !
Just out of interest here at Manchester the pass office have lost all records of who handed in a disclosure form to get our new super dooper 'swipe passes' and are now going around company's asking them to provide evidence that they were originally checked !!! last year they couldn't issue a swipe card without a DS form !
With the very greatest of respect, does anyone remember the concept of the sterile cockpit and why it was introduced?
No friends, absolutely no family. No cabin crew at critical times either. They are distractions from the job on hand.
I hope never to have to hear the transcript from the CVR after some pilot is so busy showing has Dad why he should be so proud of him that he crashes
If your ego is so fragile that you MUST show your parents/siblings/girlfriend/spouse/kids where you work, then maybe you should be in a different job.
No friends, absolutely no family. No cabin crew at critical times either. They are distractions from the job on hand.
I hope never to have to hear the transcript from the CVR after some pilot is so busy showing has Dad why he should be so proud of him that he crashes
If your ego is so fragile that you MUST show your parents/siblings/girlfriend/spouse/kids where you work, then maybe you should be in a different job.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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How is it safer to have my loved one in the cabin at the mercy of a soldier of the faithful with a knife to her throat, rather than seated behind me where she cannot be a bargaining chip?