Recruitment woes at BA.
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AMEX
I think I have to disagree with you:
1) As I recall, BA do indeed assess your learning curve. Correct me if you know different!
2) Many pilots pass LPCs, and OPCs on their rated types, who aren't necessarily high quality. Hey, I might even include myself in that number!
3) Their 'experience on type' probably isn't important AT ALL to BA. The only reason they ask for A320 (etc) type rating is because it reduces the training cost! It is NOT the only type BA fly. No doubt many will bid onto an 'antiquated' Boeing (such as a B747-400) As soon as they can.
Better for everyone if their flying ability is assessed, before any committments are made? Saves dissappointment later, don't you think?
I think I have to disagree with you:
1) As I recall, BA do indeed assess your learning curve. Correct me if you know different!
2) Many pilots pass LPCs, and OPCs on their rated types, who aren't necessarily high quality. Hey, I might even include myself in that number!
3) Their 'experience on type' probably isn't important AT ALL to BA. The only reason they ask for A320 (etc) type rating is because it reduces the training cost! It is NOT the only type BA fly. No doubt many will bid onto an 'antiquated' Boeing (such as a B747-400) As soon as they can.
Better for everyone if their flying ability is assessed, before any committments are made? Saves dissappointment later, don't you think?
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BA are going about their latest recruitment round as if they are recruiting cadets rather than experienced pilots. I'm not excatly sure what sitting in front of a computer screen for 2 hrs twiddling with a joystick proves to someone with thousands of hours on an ATPL. The similarity to the Borg comment is nearer to the mark than some might realise, from the horses mouth ie at my interview they had only identified 120 people for interview for 125 jobs. Out of that 120 the pass rate is currently about 1 in 20!! Bunch of wank*rs who need a reality check.
Q. If you were Rod Eddington how would you save the company money?
A. Cut out this bollox for a start and reduce the recruitment system to 3/4 of a day rather than 2 days and all the psychbabble rubbish. Let's face it you've got some real tossers working for you anyway so what's this all about?
Still got to go in the 1-11 sim and afterwards told them to fark off, it ain't the company it once was and if you got any kind of seniority in your present company i wouldn't bother, especially if you over 35. Was told in interview that command time at least 12 years and that doesn't take into account the new retirement legislation coming in 2004. quote 'we don't want you joining under any misguided illusions' - fair enough so they want 22 year old A320 type rated people i guess!! Ill thought out and conducted by managers that don't realise that their is a real world out there.
Stand by for another advert asking for any jet type rating, you mark my words.
Q. If you were Rod Eddington how would you save the company money?
A. Cut out this bollox for a start and reduce the recruitment system to 3/4 of a day rather than 2 days and all the psychbabble rubbish. Let's face it you've got some real tossers working for you anyway so what's this all about?
Still got to go in the 1-11 sim and afterwards told them to fark off, it ain't the company it once was and if you got any kind of seniority in your present company i wouldn't bother, especially if you over 35. Was told in interview that command time at least 12 years and that doesn't take into account the new retirement legislation coming in 2004. quote 'we don't want you joining under any misguided illusions' - fair enough so they want 22 year old A320 type rated people i guess!! Ill thought out and conducted by managers that don't realise that their is a real world out there.
Stand by for another advert asking for any jet type rating, you mark my words.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Stand by for another advert asking for any jet type rating, you mark my words.
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Pilot Pete is spot on.
It is not all about having flown for 20 years and knowing the aeroplane inside out.
Must of us here would agree that there are guys out there even today that act as single pilots.Happened to me. Non standard calls that I have never heard of before, CRM -what, and that sort of thing. Also attitude and personality count more than experience especially when you put someone in unfamiliar teritory, you can really see ones ability to delegate and be delegated to.
My two cents worth.
It is not all about having flown for 20 years and knowing the aeroplane inside out.
Must of us here would agree that there are guys out there even today that act as single pilots.Happened to me. Non standard calls that I have never heard of before, CRM -what, and that sort of thing. Also attitude and personality count more than experience especially when you put someone in unfamiliar teritory, you can really see ones ability to delegate and be delegated to.
My two cents worth.
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Amex
I was talking 'generic sim assessment' rather any particular company's profile. Again, it doesn't matter if you fly a profile once or three times, they can assess your learning curve as the profile goes on; Do you get the hang of the trim, are you still struggling to get a suitable power setting for straight and level 300kts 15 minutes into the sim? Is your handling improving as the profile progresses etc etc.
Again, we're talking basics; flying ability on 'steam driven instruments', but more importantly I think (in no set order)
Command presence
Capacity
Scan rate and therefore accuracy
Ability to follow SOPs (perhaps some they sent you a few days before)
Airmanship/ decision making ability
Safety
CRM
Personality
Appearance
Attitude
Learning curve
Self assessment/ facilitation
Identification of errors and course of action taken
And I am sure the list could go on. My point is they don't have to put an Airbus rated pilot in an Airbus sim to find out whether he/ she possesses these skills, they just won't expect the 'flying accuracy' related ones to be as good in an unfamiliar sim.
The over-riding factor in my opinion though will be cost and sim availability. I am sure this comes into the planning process when deciding what sim to use for the assessments.
PP
I was talking 'generic sim assessment' rather any particular company's profile. Again, it doesn't matter if you fly a profile once or three times, they can assess your learning curve as the profile goes on; Do you get the hang of the trim, are you still struggling to get a suitable power setting for straight and level 300kts 15 minutes into the sim? Is your handling improving as the profile progresses etc etc.
Again, we're talking basics; flying ability on 'steam driven instruments', but more importantly I think (in no set order)
Command presence
Capacity
Scan rate and therefore accuracy
Ability to follow SOPs (perhaps some they sent you a few days before)
Airmanship/ decision making ability
Safety
CRM
Personality
Appearance
Attitude
Learning curve
Self assessment/ facilitation
Identification of errors and course of action taken
And I am sure the list could go on. My point is they don't have to put an Airbus rated pilot in an Airbus sim to find out whether he/ she possesses these skills, they just won't expect the 'flying accuracy' related ones to be as good in an unfamiliar sim.
The over-riding factor in my opinion though will be cost and sim availability. I am sure this comes into the planning process when deciding what sim to use for the assessments.
PP
Last edited by Pilot Pete; 28th Jun 2004 at 20:28.
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All assessments are being conducted on the Super (!) 1-11 sim, just in case anyone is interested.
The 1-11 is the only which is always available.
It 's an even playing field.
Or are you too busy giving your own opinion of how BA should be conducting their assessments ?.
The 1-11 is the only which is always available.
It 's an even playing field.
Or are you too busy giving your own opinion of how BA should be conducting their assessments ?.
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Why BA persist with the BAC111 sim I have no idea ....maybe becuase its an unused sim and is free and not costed to the training bill ..... accounts rules as usual !
I did it in 1998, but at that time EAC in Bournemouth sold time on theirs to practice for the BA assesment .... not sure who has one now ...
BA is the least 'handling skills' based airline I have worked for ...... In fact on the Airbus fleet we are banned from ever disconnecting the Auto Thrust .... (because a few people couldn't hack it they ban everyone from flying manual thrust !) ....
As already said, if you are current on older 'ironmongery' you will shine .... if you are on modern 'button pushers' aready then you will struggle ..... Its a ludricous situation when BA prides itself on its 'team skills' and 'CRM' to assess someone on an abacus .....
Didn't we all pass an IR on a light twin at some point in our careers .... surley that proves we have the handling skills if required .... uuuhhmm
I did it in 1998, but at that time EAC in Bournemouth sold time on theirs to practice for the BA assesment .... not sure who has one now ...
BA is the least 'handling skills' based airline I have worked for ...... In fact on the Airbus fleet we are banned from ever disconnecting the Auto Thrust .... (because a few people couldn't hack it they ban everyone from flying manual thrust !) ....
As already said, if you are current on older 'ironmongery' you will shine .... if you are on modern 'button pushers' aready then you will struggle ..... Its a ludricous situation when BA prides itself on its 'team skills' and 'CRM' to assess someone on an abacus .....
Didn't we all pass an IR on a light twin at some point in our careers .... surley that proves we have the handling skills if required .... uuuhhmm
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What about using
If there are folk who are still to do an assessment, what about using the Trident Sim at Biggin Hill. This is a steam driven bird and I'm sure it would help those from an Airbus background.
I know its not quite a "Super 1-11" but the trimming aspects ought to be quite similar.
pm if you need the telephone number, but a quick search on these forums should find it.
Good luck
Goldfinger
I know its not quite a "Super 1-11" but the trimming aspects ought to be quite similar.
pm if you need the telephone number, but a quick search on these forums should find it.
Good luck
Goldfinger
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I think that people are maybe missing the point a little.
This is clearly a declaration of the BA mentality.
I, as an experienced Airbus pilot with several thousand hours on type plus several more hours on more basic aircraft types, would not pay £250 per hour to prepare for an assessment which would be assessing me for a position where I would be flying my present aircraft type.
As some earlier posters have stated; I have already proved that I can fly the aircraft. I have already proved that I can pass numerous assessments in terms of base checks and route checks.
The only concern for BA should be my CRM. If they want to assess this particular personal quality then they are welcome to use an old clockwork aeroplane simulator.
What they cannot expect is for me to have the same manual flying skills that I had several years before I flew a FBW aeroplane with a sidestick.
Is it any wonder that they have had a distinct lack of interest in their recent recruitment campaign?
This is clearly a declaration of the BA mentality.
I, as an experienced Airbus pilot with several thousand hours on type plus several more hours on more basic aircraft types, would not pay £250 per hour to prepare for an assessment which would be assessing me for a position where I would be flying my present aircraft type.
As some earlier posters have stated; I have already proved that I can fly the aircraft. I have already proved that I can pass numerous assessments in terms of base checks and route checks.
The only concern for BA should be my CRM. If they want to assess this particular personal quality then they are welcome to use an old clockwork aeroplane simulator.
What they cannot expect is for me to have the same manual flying skills that I had several years before I flew a FBW aeroplane with a sidestick.
Is it any wonder that they have had a distinct lack of interest in their recent recruitment campaign?
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MAN FLEX
Quote
"Is it any wonder that they have had a distinct lack of interest in their recent recruitment campaign?"
Well i am no manager but 450 qualified applicants for 120 jobs can hardly be called lack of interest !
Quote
"Is it any wonder that they have had a distinct lack of interest in their recent recruitment campaign?"
Well i am no manager but 450 qualified applicants for 120 jobs can hardly be called lack of interest !
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Man Flex:
If you arent prepared to pay £ 250 to give yourself a better chance of meeting BAs requirements,- and thats when you are the applicant to join them , not the other way round,- its not likely that you are going to convince them to have you aboard. They are entitled to have their own requirements, for whatever reasons, and if you arent prepared to meet them then its game over. One of the prime requirements must be to be enthusiastic about joining them and a determination to do what it takes to convince them that you are the right person. That includes any sort of test they may wish to set you and how you deal with any obstacles,- including a One-Eleven sim.
Its unlikely that they are going to have problems recruiting as many people as they need, even if they do end up having to pay for type ratings for some.
If you arent prepared to pay £ 250 to give yourself a better chance of meeting BAs requirements,- and thats when you are the applicant to join them , not the other way round,- its not likely that you are going to convince them to have you aboard. They are entitled to have their own requirements, for whatever reasons, and if you arent prepared to meet them then its game over. One of the prime requirements must be to be enthusiastic about joining them and a determination to do what it takes to convince them that you are the right person. That includes any sort of test they may wish to set you and how you deal with any obstacles,- including a One-Eleven sim.
Its unlikely that they are going to have problems recruiting as many people as they need, even if they do end up having to pay for type ratings for some.
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Guys (and Galls)
Do you not think it's think it's probably up to BA to set the standards required to join BA? If they choose to use a 1-11 sim...or any other, it's their choice. Anyway, an assesment of piloting skills in an Airbus sim...how would that work??? I fly the Airbus and I can feel my 'skills' (the few I had) slipping away rapidly. The Airbus sims at Cranebank are at max capacity now anyway so they won't be using them.
There isn't much point moaning either if you've lost the basic flying skills flying Airbus' for another airline. Anyone joining BA can bid to leave their joing fleet after a few years so if you're not up to flying a conventional aircraft now, you probably won't be in 5 years time which will just be a headache/cost for BA later.
Also, the fact that someone has passed LPC's etc in another company or that we all passed an IRT on a Seneca seems a bit irrelevant. There are good pilots and bad pilots in all companies and they all pass LPC's. The idea behind an assesment is to make sure the other comapny gets to keep all the bad pilots.
Sorry if this sounds like I think BA doesn't owe you a living and shouldn't be moulding their recruitment drive to suit your career path but it doesn't and it shouldn't.
Do you not think it's think it's probably up to BA to set the standards required to join BA? If they choose to use a 1-11 sim...or any other, it's their choice. Anyway, an assesment of piloting skills in an Airbus sim...how would that work??? I fly the Airbus and I can feel my 'skills' (the few I had) slipping away rapidly. The Airbus sims at Cranebank are at max capacity now anyway so they won't be using them.
There isn't much point moaning either if you've lost the basic flying skills flying Airbus' for another airline. Anyone joining BA can bid to leave their joing fleet after a few years so if you're not up to flying a conventional aircraft now, you probably won't be in 5 years time which will just be a headache/cost for BA later.
Also, the fact that someone has passed LPC's etc in another company or that we all passed an IRT on a Seneca seems a bit irrelevant. There are good pilots and bad pilots in all companies and they all pass LPC's. The idea behind an assesment is to make sure the other comapny gets to keep all the bad pilots.
Sorry if this sounds like I think BA doesn't owe you a living and shouldn't be moulding their recruitment drive to suit your career path but it doesn't and it shouldn't.
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I second the last few posts here - it's a free market out there so if you are unhappy with BA's recruitment policy then don't apply.
Nobody is forcing you to apply - go and apply to another company. And the point about lack of interest is a complete fabrication. I'm in the know - there are hundreds of applicants.
What I would say is that if you are a pilot in their 20's BA is a very attractive company. You join us, do 5 years on the airbus, then 5-10 years flying around in 747's with 2 days off in Hong Kong, Bangkok, LA, Cape Town etc etc, before coming back for a short haul command by the time you're 40. If you are 40 now, then sure, you need to think long and hard about it, but with youth on your side you will be hard pressed to find a better long term career in the UK.
What I would also say is please don't base a decision on the rumours and misinformation on this web site. Please talk to people that are actually in the know and work for BA already.
Nobody is forcing you to apply - go and apply to another company. And the point about lack of interest is a complete fabrication. I'm in the know - there are hundreds of applicants.
What I would say is that if you are a pilot in their 20's BA is a very attractive company. You join us, do 5 years on the airbus, then 5-10 years flying around in 747's with 2 days off in Hong Kong, Bangkok, LA, Cape Town etc etc, before coming back for a short haul command by the time you're 40. If you are 40 now, then sure, you need to think long and hard about it, but with youth on your side you will be hard pressed to find a better long term career in the UK.
What I would also say is please don't base a decision on the rumours and misinformation on this web site. Please talk to people that are actually in the know and work for BA already.
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Heartily agree with mrsmaryhinge et al. There is no doubt that BA is one of the best companies to work for if you're a young'un. Pensions? Schmensions! Lots of folk retiring recently believed the pension mantra and ploughed thousands in, to receive half of what they expected. If you want the opportunity to fly different fleets/routes/lifestyles over your flying career with the same company and accrue seniority on the way, then it's a no-brainer. If you can get in. To think that because you've got a few thousand hours on an electric jet you jump any queue is one of those instant pass/fail points on day one. I
I spent a lot of time researching the BA entry process/requirements prior to Sep 11. I passed the 2 day entry behaviour and got into the hold pool. I was awaiting the sim check and had no doubt in my mind that I was going to chuck a few hundred quid at a steam-driven sim to ensure success. The thing is, how much do you want to join the company? They call the shots. By the way, my Mum has been driving cars for about 50 years, and she's still not very good at it.
If you struggle to manually fly an aircraft, then my advice to you is to p*ss off down the back and make me a nice cup of tea.
I spent a lot of time researching the BA entry process/requirements prior to Sep 11. I passed the 2 day entry behaviour and got into the hold pool. I was awaiting the sim check and had no doubt in my mind that I was going to chuck a few hundred quid at a steam-driven sim to ensure success. The thing is, how much do you want to join the company? They call the shots. By the way, my Mum has been driving cars for about 50 years, and she's still not very good at it.
If you struggle to manually fly an aircraft, then my advice to you is to p*ss off down the back and make me a nice cup of tea.
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Nutty Nigel,
I don't think 450 applicants for 120 jobs is an overwhelming success story somehow ! Taken, it is for type rated pilots only and there are a finite number of those out there but a ratio of less than 4-1 is hardly a deluge of applications.
A lot of those applying will not necessarily accept employment with BA given the 15 year command wait and the pension degradation.
Regarding sims, BA is entitled to use whatever means it choses to assess candidates and if you are really desperate to get in you won't mind stumping up £250 for some practice. I guess it all depends how much you want it.
I agree with the posts that suggest it suits young guys in their twenties who, either have low seniority with their current employer or are working for an airline in a precarious position.
Regards Orion Man
I don't think 450 applicants for 120 jobs is an overwhelming success story somehow ! Taken, it is for type rated pilots only and there are a finite number of those out there but a ratio of less than 4-1 is hardly a deluge of applications.
A lot of those applying will not necessarily accept employment with BA given the 15 year command wait and the pension degradation.
Regarding sims, BA is entitled to use whatever means it choses to assess candidates and if you are really desperate to get in you won't mind stumping up £250 for some practice. I guess it all depends how much you want it.
I agree with the posts that suggest it suits young guys in their twenties who, either have low seniority with their current employer or are working for an airline in a precarious position.
Regards Orion Man
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Well said AbeamPoints - All very true ...
Although you WILL work every weekend for the forseable future in BA and not be able to get even an odd day off for an occasion etc (apart from leave) ..... You will be blessed with a STABLE roster ........ Weigh it up carefully ! (You will also do 2 reserve periods of 21 days each year .... no control whatsoever for 21 days, days off at 12 hours notice).
Any BA command at current figures is 15-20 years ......
You will have to do 5 years before being able to bid to a long haul fleet from, say, airbus shorthaul .....
No final salary pension .......
Salary - OK, new joiners around £40K goes up £1575 per year ....
BA is not what it used to be for DEP's .... a life time to a command with a seniority based roster bid system that will naff you off sitting at the bottom of the pile for years ......
DEP's who joined 5+ years ago have shot up the seniority very quickly with vast amounts of retirements, chaps getting 767 commands within 7 years ..... The tables have turned, this is not the case and will not be if you join now ....... Seniority is EVERYTHING in BA, much more so than any other airlines where all it means is command date ......
The choice is yours !
Although you WILL work every weekend for the forseable future in BA and not be able to get even an odd day off for an occasion etc (apart from leave) ..... You will be blessed with a STABLE roster ........ Weigh it up carefully ! (You will also do 2 reserve periods of 21 days each year .... no control whatsoever for 21 days, days off at 12 hours notice).
Any BA command at current figures is 15-20 years ......
You will have to do 5 years before being able to bid to a long haul fleet from, say, airbus shorthaul .....
No final salary pension .......
Salary - OK, new joiners around £40K goes up £1575 per year ....
BA is not what it used to be for DEP's .... a life time to a command with a seniority based roster bid system that will naff you off sitting at the bottom of the pile for years ......
DEP's who joined 5+ years ago have shot up the seniority very quickly with vast amounts of retirements, chaps getting 767 commands within 7 years ..... The tables have turned, this is not the case and will not be if you join now ....... Seniority is EVERYTHING in BA, much more so than any other airlines where all it means is command date ......
The choice is yours !
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Orion Man
BA is not what it was,that's a very true statement,it was a state owned airline with limitless funds to waste!
Regarding the 450 or should i say 476 which is the true figure this is the refined figure after rejecting the Too old or unsuitable,i would say 476 is a "is an overwhelming success " and so would the majority out there.
A 4 or 5 to 1 selection criteria says loads to me and i have to say its reassuring to see that many people still believe BA is the top job to have,be honest with yourself if this was a real business 10% of the pilots pool would be a natural turnover not retirements.
BA is not what it was,that's a very true statement,it was a state owned airline with limitless funds to waste!
Regarding the 450 or should i say 476 which is the true figure this is the refined figure after rejecting the Too old or unsuitable,i would say 476 is a "is an overwhelming success " and so would the majority out there.
A 4 or 5 to 1 selection criteria says loads to me and i have to say its reassuring to see that many people still believe BA is the top job to have,be honest with yourself if this was a real business 10% of the pilots pool would be a natural turnover not retirements.
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I agree totally with abeam points.
I would think long and hard about joining BA.
I'm 100% confident that the lack of applicants will mean BA drop it's requirement for type rated guys.
It's also interesting to note that one of the cadets is taking BA to court - in order to achieve the right to work 50% !
If she wins, then a whole bunch of guys in both seats will be allowed to work part time (50 or 75%)
In other words rather than have a requirement for 130 DEP's it is a distinct possibility that BA will need 260 DEP's.
For those who did attend the interview - I thought I'd cut and paste one of my earlier posts as a personal opinion of life in BA as a a DEP.
posted 9th May 2004 21:39
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are looking at joining – then please be aware that hand solo’s post is very accurate.
I’m ex Navy and charter – and since joining BA ( short haul) I have flown with some really nice guys. My net income is higher (despite a seat change) and rosters are far more stable. We have enjoyed some great trips on staff travel and I rarely fly at night.
However –On reflection, I wouldn’t recommend it. In fact I enjoyed life more a few years ago when I was at previous employers.
Shorthaul BA at LHR (at least on the airbus fleet) is not an agreeable rewarding place to work.
Why not?
Well it’s a huge activity – you will rarely fly with the same Captain – and almost never with cabin crew you have met before. It’s difficult to form relationships or friendships with folks. Please believe me, there are some huge ego’s here. “One upmanship” is the name of the game. A lot of the Captains take pleasure in pointing out errors or omissions. The atmosphere on the flight deck is rarely pleasant. I’m afraid just too many of the guys are “spoon fed” from uni – sponsored and sadly now cynical about BA. They are frequently pompous, patronising and have an unrealistic view of their own abilities. Pilots here, can be rude to despatchers, colleagues and cabin crew in a way I haven’t witnessed elsewhere. They have no idea what it’s like to work for anyone other than BA. The relationship between pilots and crew is very poor compared to previous employers. (Though to be fair this may be as much to do with the locked door post 911 policy) .Cabin crew are well cared for by the company and fly half as much as you will! I recently completed a 3 day 10 sector trip whilst our Helsinki stopping cabin crew did just one sector out, standover dayin HEL, then one sector back! The inefficiencies at BA have to be seen to be believed.
The training dep’t encompasses some clever even brilliant guys who have masses of experience, knowledge and ability (along with the usual arrogant and narcissistic rogues!) – but somehow the actual training outcomes are poor.
The company line is that BA is best and we are head and shoulders above other operators. It’s simply not true. I’ve witnessed some really shabby events on line and I’m not impressed. Simple procedures such as refuelling and tech log entries are made so bloody complicated that 95% of the guys do it wrong. SOP’s change frequently and company publications are ambiguous and difficult to follow.
BA’s fuel policy – or rather the dogmatic interpretation of it, causes a lot of stress on line. As an example, you frequently burn 500kg just getting out of LHR during the taxy phase ( only 100 to 200kg allowed on flight plan) and BA sometimes allow only 8 mins contingency on the return sector!
In addition to this, LHR means traffic jams in and out of work, long stressful arrivals where radio frequencies are over congested and arrival separation is rarely more than the min 2.5 miles.
Commuting and “life costs” around LHR are higher than elsewhere in the world! A modest but decent family home with garaging and within a civilized neighbourhood where you can have confidence in the schools costs £600K.
To sum up; I’d say there is more to life than money. BA pays reasonably well – but perhaps it’s arguable that it’s not worth the hassle. You are unlikely to be totally happy at BA. Most flights will be with total strangers. The typical day starts with continual moaning. (despite my diatribe above – I try to be really positive at work!).Cabin crew unions and their participants do there best to spoil the commercial success and the micro – “day to day” running and good nature of the cabin crew. Many pilots are looking for part time so they can spend more time with their families.
You might be happier (albeit poorer) elsewhere!
I would think long and hard about joining BA.
I'm 100% confident that the lack of applicants will mean BA drop it's requirement for type rated guys.
It's also interesting to note that one of the cadets is taking BA to court - in order to achieve the right to work 50% !
If she wins, then a whole bunch of guys in both seats will be allowed to work part time (50 or 75%)
In other words rather than have a requirement for 130 DEP's it is a distinct possibility that BA will need 260 DEP's.
For those who did attend the interview - I thought I'd cut and paste one of my earlier posts as a personal opinion of life in BA as a a DEP.
posted 9th May 2004 21:39
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are looking at joining – then please be aware that hand solo’s post is very accurate.
I’m ex Navy and charter – and since joining BA ( short haul) I have flown with some really nice guys. My net income is higher (despite a seat change) and rosters are far more stable. We have enjoyed some great trips on staff travel and I rarely fly at night.
However –On reflection, I wouldn’t recommend it. In fact I enjoyed life more a few years ago when I was at previous employers.
Shorthaul BA at LHR (at least on the airbus fleet) is not an agreeable rewarding place to work.
Why not?
Well it’s a huge activity – you will rarely fly with the same Captain – and almost never with cabin crew you have met before. It’s difficult to form relationships or friendships with folks. Please believe me, there are some huge ego’s here. “One upmanship” is the name of the game. A lot of the Captains take pleasure in pointing out errors or omissions. The atmosphere on the flight deck is rarely pleasant. I’m afraid just too many of the guys are “spoon fed” from uni – sponsored and sadly now cynical about BA. They are frequently pompous, patronising and have an unrealistic view of their own abilities. Pilots here, can be rude to despatchers, colleagues and cabin crew in a way I haven’t witnessed elsewhere. They have no idea what it’s like to work for anyone other than BA. The relationship between pilots and crew is very poor compared to previous employers. (Though to be fair this may be as much to do with the locked door post 911 policy) .Cabin crew are well cared for by the company and fly half as much as you will! I recently completed a 3 day 10 sector trip whilst our Helsinki stopping cabin crew did just one sector out, standover dayin HEL, then one sector back! The inefficiencies at BA have to be seen to be believed.
The training dep’t encompasses some clever even brilliant guys who have masses of experience, knowledge and ability (along with the usual arrogant and narcissistic rogues!) – but somehow the actual training outcomes are poor.
The company line is that BA is best and we are head and shoulders above other operators. It’s simply not true. I’ve witnessed some really shabby events on line and I’m not impressed. Simple procedures such as refuelling and tech log entries are made so bloody complicated that 95% of the guys do it wrong. SOP’s change frequently and company publications are ambiguous and difficult to follow.
BA’s fuel policy – or rather the dogmatic interpretation of it, causes a lot of stress on line. As an example, you frequently burn 500kg just getting out of LHR during the taxy phase ( only 100 to 200kg allowed on flight plan) and BA sometimes allow only 8 mins contingency on the return sector!
In addition to this, LHR means traffic jams in and out of work, long stressful arrivals where radio frequencies are over congested and arrival separation is rarely more than the min 2.5 miles.
Commuting and “life costs” around LHR are higher than elsewhere in the world! A modest but decent family home with garaging and within a civilized neighbourhood where you can have confidence in the schools costs £600K.
To sum up; I’d say there is more to life than money. BA pays reasonably well – but perhaps it’s arguable that it’s not worth the hassle. You are unlikely to be totally happy at BA. Most flights will be with total strangers. The typical day starts with continual moaning. (despite my diatribe above – I try to be really positive at work!).Cabin crew unions and their participants do there best to spoil the commercial success and the micro – “day to day” running and good nature of the cabin crew. Many pilots are looking for part time so they can spend more time with their families.
You might be happier (albeit poorer) elsewhere!
Join Date: May 2000
Location: UK
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Just a quickie, the BAC 1-11 sim at Bournemouth is no longer in use but they are offering the 727 sim as an alternative. Also, the Trident sim at Biggin went tech last weekend with no timescale as to when it would be back up.
Cheers
MB
Cheers
MB
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Twilight Zone
Age: 57
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Yeovil,
youve said it all for me.
If I knew then what I knew now, I would have stayed where I was, for all of the well stated reasons above.
Anybody who has a 'decent' jet job, talk to guys who have made the switch in the last couple of years and really pick there brains before jumping ship.
Its not a happy place to work.
youve said it all for me.
If I knew then what I knew now, I would have stayed where I was, for all of the well stated reasons above.
Anybody who has a 'decent' jet job, talk to guys who have made the switch in the last couple of years and really pick there brains before jumping ship.
Its not a happy place to work.