The Arrogance Of Britannia 034A
BY 034A
Come on, guys. What a mountain out of a mole-hill !
You all know that, when we're working a foreign ATC unit and we're fairly close behind someone, just slow down and make some room.
Its not really worth the ulcers, is it?
Rgds, Sleeve.
You all know that, when we're working a foreign ATC unit and we're fairly close behind someone, just slow down and make some room.
Its not really worth the ulcers, is it?
Rgds, Sleeve.
Goes to show that when we talk on RT we are acting as ambassadors for our operating company. The only RT that gets noticed is that which is "non-standard" or what we might define as "unreasonable".
I think we can all have an "off" day but requests for directs when ATC are working flat out show a lack of situational awareness!
I have always found that it pays to be standard and "courteous" when on the RT and that there is little mileage in getting peoples backs up by constantly badgering for directs etc. or trying to "fly" other pilots a/c by innuendo!
I think we can all have an "off" day but requests for directs when ATC are working flat out show a lack of situational awareness!
I have always found that it pays to be standard and "courteous" when on the RT and that there is little mileage in getting peoples backs up by constantly badgering for directs etc. or trying to "fly" other pilots a/c by innuendo!
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Oh Dear.
I was there that night (or rather early the following morning) in a Brit aeroplane. Not I hasten to add in the offending aircraft. Probably a couple of hours later.
It does perhaps go some way to explaining ATC's considerable lack of co-operation when we were late on departure. Every obstacle put in hour way causing us an extra ten minutes delay. We did however remain polite composed and very much the crew on form.
What comes around goes around.
Please rest assured that there is not a Company wide ethos of arrogance and "me me me" any more than in any other Company. We all have our share of ill mannered cads.
I was there that night (or rather early the following morning) in a Brit aeroplane. Not I hasten to add in the offending aircraft. Probably a couple of hours later.
It does perhaps go some way to explaining ATC's considerable lack of co-operation when we were late on departure. Every obstacle put in hour way causing us an extra ten minutes delay. We did however remain polite composed and very much the crew on form.
What comes around goes around.
Please rest assured that there is not a Company wide ethos of arrogance and "me me me" any more than in any other Company. We all have our share of ill mannered cads.
Pegase Driver
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One bad remark by one crew does not have to reflect on the whole airline. I find BY to be quite OK , and this is based on quite a number of years (unfortunately) of listening / talking to them .
We do stressful jobs and sometimes it shows on the R/T.
No big deal.
Ignore the guy is the most appropriate response, because, in any case as a controller you will always win..
AMEX : who is she ???? at least PM me her initials ! Merde , je suis curieux !
We do stressful jobs and sometimes it shows on the R/T.
No big deal.
Ignore the guy is the most appropriate response, because, in any case as a controller you will always win..
AMEX : who is she ???? at least PM me her initials ! Merde , je suis curieux !
niknak
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Bravo ATC Watcher!
If anybody gets above their station they get ignored for a few calls.
You get tossers in every airline, but there is usually more than one way of subtley making them look like idiots - usually by letting them continue with their inane spouting until they realise that no one gives a toss.
If anybody gets above their station they get ignored for a few calls.
You get tossers in every airline, but there is usually more than one way of subtley making them look like idiots - usually by letting them continue with their inane spouting until they realise that no one gives a toss.
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one four sick
Sorry but I don't know how to do those very clever quotation liney format thingies, but:
Quote:
We were number 1 at some 18 miles from the runway - fact.
We were doing 180 KTS - fact.
We were doing 180KTS to 4 miles as asked by the controller - fact.
You were doing 180 kts for 14 miles, and baulking a Spaniard? My greatest respect goes out to you. You can't really knock the BY driver for joining in the fun and having a verbal dig at the Iberia in front of him can you? It is, after all, an opportunity not to be missed.
By the way, congratulations on one of the fastest-growing threads I've seen for a while.
Sorry but I don't know how to do those very clever quotation liney format thingies, but:
Quote:
We were number 1 at some 18 miles from the runway - fact.
We were doing 180 KTS - fact.
We were doing 180KTS to 4 miles as asked by the controller - fact.
You were doing 180 kts for 14 miles, and baulking a Spaniard? My greatest respect goes out to you. You can't really knock the BY driver for joining in the fun and having a verbal dig at the Iberia in front of him can you? It is, after all, an opportunity not to be missed.
By the way, congratulations on one of the fastest-growing threads I've seen for a while.
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By the way, congratulations on one of the fastest-growing threads I've seen for a while.
See, arrogant yes but with a sense of humour
Now how about I call myself The Britannia 123A next time? Would it perfect the whole picture of being the charters Nigels?
As far as military making the most of the Britannia pilots workforce, like someone else mentioned, it is far from the truth. Those who have indeed a military background are mostly nice guys with a wealth of experience in both military and civilian ops and a pleasure to fly or having a beer with. Britannia has a reputation but there is a gap between facts and fiction. Best way to verify this is from the inside... Do it, I doubt you will be disappointed.
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Slightly off topic but main jist is the same.......
"I have always found that it pays to be standard and "courteous" when on the RT"
This also applies when you are calling in company too. We don't just sit around on our @$$es drinking tea (well not always
), we are doing our best for you. Do yo think that we like you to sit out on the taxiway for 40mins while a stand clears ???.
LHR isn't exaclty the best place to operate from at the mo, and if you arrive off schedule then sometimes there isn't much choice other than to sit and wait.
Also don't forget that most smaller airlines/handling agents share frequencies, so they can all hear you making an
of yourself when barking at the chap/chapess on the other end.
"I have always found that it pays to be standard and "courteous" when on the RT"
This also applies when you are calling in company too. We don't just sit around on our @$$es drinking tea (well not always
), we are doing our best for you. Do yo think that we like you to sit out on the taxiway for 40mins while a stand clears ???.LHR isn't exaclty the best place to operate from at the mo, and if you arrive off schedule then sometimes there isn't much choice other than to sit and wait.
Also don't forget that most smaller airlines/handling agents share frequencies, so they can all hear you making an
of yourself when barking at the chap/chapess on the other end.
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Quotes:
"Big deal! Surely with your vast experience you must also remember at least in one occasion when a BA,AF,LF,SR,AA,..... was rude to you"
and
"I bet you drive a big red car!
Why dont you just go and get your pilots licence, then you could stop having to tell us how big it is.
A "tongue lashing", get a grip man!"
To think you people are in charge of people's lives is frightening.
I wish I could be as grown up as you pilots and be able to dish out insults like you. I guess being a lowly controller with nothing better to do than stop you doing what you want all day long, I'll just have to hope I can be as wonderful as you both think you are one day.(See sarcasm, controllers can do it too)
The sarky, arrogant tone is exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about at BY.........thank you for demonstrating my point perfectly.
Yes I did give that knob a quick blast because he was stepping on high priority calls (as previously stated), which was affecting the safe, orderly and expeditious flow of traffic through the sector. You would obviously prefer to have an airprox then with another aircraft in order to allow your collegue to tell me he was level for the fourth time and wanted higher?
I'm just grateful that 99% of the aircrews who regularly trawl the skies over Blighty are extremely courteous and on the ball and were a pleasure to work with. And yes that did include BY crews as well before any more of you jump on me for sharing my experience..........obviously it doesn't count as I don't have a pilots license.
To conclude with a quote:
"T*ssers everywhere, that s for sure........"
Agree with that, there's a couple here.
"Big deal! Surely with your vast experience you must also remember at least in one occasion when a BA,AF,LF,SR,AA,..... was rude to you"
and
"I bet you drive a big red car!
Why dont you just go and get your pilots licence, then you could stop having to tell us how big it is.
A "tongue lashing", get a grip man!"
To think you people are in charge of people's lives is frightening.
I wish I could be as grown up as you pilots and be able to dish out insults like you. I guess being a lowly controller with nothing better to do than stop you doing what you want all day long, I'll just have to hope I can be as wonderful as you both think you are one day.(See sarcasm, controllers can do it too)
The sarky, arrogant tone is exactly the kind of attitude I'm talking about at BY.........thank you for demonstrating my point perfectly.
Yes I did give that knob a quick blast because he was stepping on high priority calls (as previously stated), which was affecting the safe, orderly and expeditious flow of traffic through the sector. You would obviously prefer to have an airprox then with another aircraft in order to allow your collegue to tell me he was level for the fourth time and wanted higher?
I'm just grateful that 99% of the aircrews who regularly trawl the skies over Blighty are extremely courteous and on the ball and were a pleasure to work with. And yes that did include BY crews as well before any more of you jump on me for sharing my experience..........obviously it doesn't count as I don't have a pilots license.
To conclude with a quote:
"T*ssers everywhere, that s for sure........"
Agree with that, there's a couple here.
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Toulouse,
This is sarcasm! The point being that the fool in question might be an even bigger fool because he is dealing with people that HE considers to be inferior to HIM.
No actual insult in there, apart from to the original offender.
This is sarcasm! The point being that the fool in question might be an even bigger fool because he is dealing with people that HE considers to be inferior to HIM.
No actual insult in there, apart from to the original offender.
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Expeditedescent,
Don't get rattled by a couple of provacateurs on here. There will always be a percentage of morons in any business. English ATCOs are the best in the world without doubt and knowing a few of them I know what a stressful job it can be and pilots do not think it is a "lowly job."
There would be uproar if you guys treated the spanish airline operators in the same way as we are often treated in Spain, the Balearics or the Canaries. They look after their own first to the detriment of others. I am not defending the gentleman involved here but he is not here to defend himself. All I can say is that I have raged with anger at Spanish ATC before. At least you can pride yourselves with the proper impartiality you display in this country.
Don't get rattled by a couple of provacateurs on here. There will always be a percentage of morons in any business. English ATCOs are the best in the world without doubt and knowing a few of them I know what a stressful job it can be and pilots do not think it is a "lowly job."
There would be uproar if you guys treated the spanish airline operators in the same way as we are often treated in Spain, the Balearics or the Canaries. They look after their own first to the detriment of others. I am not defending the gentleman involved here but he is not here to defend himself. All I can say is that I have raged with anger at Spanish ATC before. At least you can pride yourselves with the proper impartiality you display in this country.
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Orion Man,
Quite right, however in this case it seems there was no reason for any of that, as the Iberia appears to have been behind the Author's aircraft, not as it were - squeezed in, as they often do. For this reason the BY was out of order, if indeed he sounded as out of order, as alleged.
Quite right, however in this case it seems there was no reason for any of that, as the Iberia appears to have been behind the Author's aircraft, not as it were - squeezed in, as they often do. For this reason the BY was out of order, if indeed he sounded as out of order, as alleged.
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Hotel Tango
The simple answer to your point about lack of flight deck awareness is that controllers are deemed a security risk and fam flights are no longer available. Until this stupid restriction is lifted you can expect to be asked to do things which do not fit in with your operational requirments. Therefore get this ban lifted so that inexperienced atcos can see from the sharp end what you require to operate your aircraft safely .
The simple answer to your point about lack of flight deck awareness is that controllers are deemed a security risk and fam flights are no longer available. Until this stupid restriction is lifted you can expect to be asked to do things which do not fit in with your operational requirments. Therefore get this ban lifted so that inexperienced atcos can see from the sharp end what you require to operate your aircraft safely .
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opnot
Not strictly true. UK carriers are permitted to carry ATCOs subject to various conditions being met. Several airlines have agreements with NATS for fam flights, including BA, though there are then other issues which come in to play and probably put people off (such as doing it in your own time and at own expense).
If you work at a NATS unit then there is no reason why your management shouldn't have made you aware of what is on offer.
If you don't, then why not suggest to someone in a position of authority at your unit/organisation that they approach some local operators to see what might be available ??
Not strictly true. UK carriers are permitted to carry ATCOs subject to various conditions being met. Several airlines have agreements with NATS for fam flights, including BA, though there are then other issues which come in to play and probably put people off (such as doing it in your own time and at own expense).
If you work at a NATS unit then there is no reason why your management shouldn't have made you aware of what is on offer.
If you don't, then why not suggest to someone in a position of authority at your unit/organisation that they approach some local operators to see what might be available ??
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Stu Bigzorst...
As I did say, I hoped I had got the wrong end of the stick, and obviously I did, so my sincerest apologies.
It's just I spent many happy years living and working in Spain, and I'm married to a Spaniard, and I too often hear certain nationalities picking on the Spaniards for being some sort of inferior nationality...
As I did say, I hoped I had got the wrong end of the stick, and obviously I did, so my sincerest apologies.
It's just I spent many happy years living and working in Spain, and I'm married to a Spaniard, and I too often hear certain nationalities picking on the Spaniards for being some sort of inferior nationality...
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You get a lot of pompous English voices on the RT worldwide and also a lot of stupid yanks bleating on about the ninth innings in a Yankees game on the pond.
However as annoying as our American bretheran can be there is nothing worse than athat plummy superior tw*t who thinks he knows it all.
Brittania pilots have long held themselves in very high esteem. They are just soo much better at flying all night to Greece and back.
Don't they employ mostly ex airforce people? Does Lord Flash actually work for them?
I rest my case
NN
However as annoying as our American bretheran can be there is nothing worse than athat plummy superior tw*t who thinks he knows it all.
Brittania pilots have long held themselves in very high esteem. They are just soo much better at flying all night to Greece and back.
Don't they employ mostly ex airforce people? Does Lord Flash actually work for them?
I rest my case
NN
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Actually no...
Sorry NN but I work for the same company as you! Toodle Pip.
You and me both know its darn rude to ask for direct to's and bleat on about rounders when we should clearly be talking about that jolly exciting game football and kid ourselves how well England are going to go this year.
Its a jolly good thing Britannia dont employ any of those darn colonials and Johnny foreigners to drag down their RT. Dont you think?
Type faster you lot!
Have a good look at this thread and realise how much you guys are kidding yourselves. There are much more serious things to be worried about.
The Lord Flash.
You and me both know its darn rude to ask for direct to's and bleat on about rounders when we should clearly be talking about that jolly exciting game football and kid ourselves how well England are going to go this year.
Its a jolly good thing Britannia dont employ any of those darn colonials and Johnny foreigners to drag down their RT. Dont you think?
Type faster you lot!
Have a good look at this thread and realise how much you guys are kidding yourselves. There are much more serious things to be worried about.
The Lord Flash.