Ryanair Jeppesen's Out of Date

[FreeSpeed]

A and C this is definitely not FR bashing, just a simple statement of facts.
If, as you say the Ryanair Jep distribution system is 'no better or no worse than any other airline' then you don't know what you are talking about. Take a look at my first post, nav. bags were found with over 20 updates out of date, you tell me all other airlines operate to this low standard, I think not.

[Faire d'income]

The IAA and jep have given the ok for the new system so i doubt there is anything wrong with it.

I take it the IAA gave approval for the old system as well. You and others have admitted here you frequently flew with out of date plates. That is crazy and probably illegal. It's a bit like using last week's TAFs for today.

Taking offline plates at the commander's discretion seems a bizarre interpretation of any sensible ops manual.

The new system you propose as being great and liked by the crews is the same systems most operators around the world use. Nothing new there. That is how the Jeppesen system is supposed to work.

My criticism is of what went before and your dismissal of it as FR bashing is somewhat indicative of FR. There is a lot of FR bashing here and elsewhere but sometimes it's justified.

[johnpilot]

I never took off or landed knowing that the Jeppesen Nav bag was out of date not 20 revisions, but even one. That would be illegal. The old system worked on the assumption that the NAV bag was checked and up to date and therefore the NAV bag sealed with all of its contents checked by the relevant department. I am sure quality control would be responsible for random checks. If the NAV bag was opened, thus unsealed by flight crew,it went back tothe Crew room for reasiling by ops. The system obviously did not work properly, we therefore changed to this new system. I believe that this system is much better and will ensure all plates not used will be up todate for the following reasons: We now open the nav bag and check that the brick on board is sealed and current. The last FCI states that all airports in Europe are in the brick so there you have it we can use all of them. The system of taking our own plates for the destination flight plan and commercial alternates is also a good one because we are responsible to make sure that they are up to date.
I would also prefer to have a system like they have in other airlines, maybe each pilot his own, maybe two sets of NAV bags onboard, but between the two options we have a surely prefer the new one
JP

[bacardi walla]

johnpilot somehow I don't believe a word you state.

I never took off or landed knowing that the Jeppesen Nav bag was out of date not 20 revisions, but even one

If you fly for FR, you obviously didn't even look in the bag on your aircraft. Most, if not all aircraft, had out of date bags not to mention bags labelled up with the wrong registration on it.

I am sure quality control would be responsible for random checks.

And who carries out such quality control? The overworked crew controller who is trying to do 4 jobs at once?

We now open the nav bag and check that the brick on board is sealed and current. The last FCI states that all airports in Europe are in the brick so there you have it we can use all of them

And you can honestly tell me that one "brick" the size of a household brick, contains all relevant data for all airports in Europe? Mmmm 4 A5 manuals into the size of 1..... My guess SIDS/STARS have been ommited from every airport in order to reduce the size and weight.

It's my guess also that there is a financial benefit for NOT opening the "brick"....

i.e.
return sealed = no charge
return opened = invoice in the post

As for each pilot having his own nav bag, well, I've heard it all now. Why not invest in laptops for each aircraft, hardwired to the systems and link them to ACARS so as to upload data as and when it's required. Oh, sorry, that costs money.

The whole set up is geared around money and not safety. I would however, like to be proved wrong.

I for one am not impressed or happy with this new system. I am always open to new methods, but this one does not ring true....

[SNNEI]

Bacardi walla,

I'm not a Ryanair insider, so i'll reserve comment on them. They part I found slanderous was the implication that the IAA (A government agency) are taking kick backs from FR.

Sorry mate, but I don't find a comment like that acceptable without some kind of proof at least. In any case, the fact that the IAA has taken some action kind of disproves that theory in the first place does it not?

[lod]

Maybe johnpilot is on the 200 as they were not out of date at all as they were updated every week by ops in DUB. It was only STN that were way behind due to the fact that they were told not to update them as i have already said. In fact the worst part about the nav bags even when they were up to date was down to the crews. You would open a bag to look for plates but they werent there as they had been used before and not returned to the correct part of the book and if they were there is coffee and tea stains all over them ( NO WONDER MOL IS GETTING RID OF TEA AND COFFEE ). So far everything is going ok with it so we may wait and see. We can all go over what has happened time and time again but there is nothing anybody can do about it now. Lets hope it works well and if there is any problems with it, it sorted out asap.

[Only A Few More Seasons]

Who is this Iod plonker?

[bacardi walla]

SNNEI yes the fact that action is being taken is maybe proof. I'll retract the statement, for now.

lod the -200's were out of date as some nightstop at STN and don't always get an upto bag sent to them. That, my dear fella, I know for a fact. The CAA chap went onboard a -200 during his visit and found a bag from another aircraft, and that bag was out of date.

Anyway, the new system is in place so we will see what happens over the next few weeks.

One thing nobody will explain, or own up to knowing, is EXACTLY what is in the "brick". Lets face it - contents of 4 x A5 manuals into 1 A5 size "brick" just doesn't seem to add up. There are a great deal of European airports with runways 6000ft or longer, so some data surely is missing

I am not convinced this will work or more importantly, be safe. Especially during the winter. Maybe the trip kit will grow

[johnpilot]

Guys, I am not trying to protect the new system, nor do I agree with everything they come up with. I know for a fact that I am way down the food chain. If things are wrong and are not going they way they should, other people´s names are on the list to have a go out by the relevant authorities. All I care about is my legality on a day to day operation and "my" licence. The NAV bag issue being out of date, I agree that it has been proven that it did not work and revisions were out of date. The point I was making was that I as a pilot was unaware in legal terms that it was out of date because I was not authorized to open the NAV bag and check its contents. All I care about is being safe, efficient and legal on the day. The rest is way beyond my control and my responsibility. The FCI´s that come out are sent to the IAA so they know exactly how we should operate. The new FCI that came out, states that the brick is not complete and in the next revision it will be ammended accordingly. In the mean time we are to supplement our trip kits with additional charts. Needless to say how many more I take every day.
I am hoping as they have numerous times said that all these issues will be resolved when we get the electronic flight bag by this fall.
JP