bmi mass exodus
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bmi mass exodus
It would appear there is going to be a mass exodus of F.Os and even some Captains. Company is rudderless and seems to have less of a standing in the industry than it did years ago. No good nightstops, longer days, shrinking network, no command prospects.
I think the F.Os are realising that they cannot cling on to rumours any longer and have go elsewhere for better lifestyle and prospects.
Of 20 F.O's I questioned, over half admitted to having contacted virgin.
The management seem to think the mention of longhaul to the carribean will keep folks, oh how wrong they are - virgin already go there....
Also with D.O and R.M moving to Easy more F.Os are looking at that for an easy command.
Never seen morale this bad in 10 years I've been there.
Can the last one out please switch the lights out...........
I think the F.Os are realising that they cannot cling on to rumours any longer and have go elsewhere for better lifestyle and prospects.
Of 20 F.O's I questioned, over half admitted to having contacted virgin.
The management seem to think the mention of longhaul to the carribean will keep folks, oh how wrong they are - virgin already go there....
Also with D.O and R.M moving to Easy more F.Os are looking at that for an easy command.
Never seen morale this bad in 10 years I've been there.
Can the last one out please switch the lights out...........
The shrinking network is certainly true. A friend uses the Jersey/Cardiff flight regularly for work. He tried to book his tickets for March and was told they would no longer be flying into Cardiff.
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Hmmmm,
When you leave, don't let the door smack you on the backside on the way out...
Heard it all before...to be followed by the guys left having accelerated advancement.
Some never learn...
When you leave, don't let the door smack you on the backside on the way out...
Heard it all before...to be followed by the guys left having accelerated advancement.
Some never learn...
Uncle Pete
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Many moons ago there was a mass exodus off the Viscount fleet and a lot of very good people were lost, mainly to BA.
Two major problems:-
1. Flights were cancelled due lack of crew.
2. There wasn't enough Fridays and Saturdays for individual
leaving parties so we had to double up.
The main outstanding issues were resolved, a pay rise of 29 per cent was imposed and we recruited some more pilots.
MP
Two major problems:-
1. Flights were cancelled due lack of crew.
2. There wasn't enough Fridays and Saturdays for individual
leaving parties so we had to double up.
The main outstanding issues were resolved, a pay rise of 29 per cent was imposed and we recruited some more pilots.
MP
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411a,
You seem to be suggesting that these people should stay somewhere they don't want to be any longer. You have to remember that it is not just about money or promotion.
The airline simply isnt the same as it used to be. so when you've tasted the honey the current Sh*t tastes that much worse.
Driving in and out of LHR every day, six days a week to do palma then hannover, when you do happen to be lucky enough to have min rest nightstop in manchester you are rewarded with five sectors.
I remember nightstopping in:
AMS,BRU,DUB,CPH,HAM,FRA,CDG,MAD,BCN,FCO,LIN,MUC,WAW,DUS,CGN
Now
AMS,BRU,DUB
I remember being told that as a pilot were considered to be employed at management level!!
Now
We have to go and see the head teacher if we are sick. And unless you are lucky enough to be a captain or a cleaner you have to wait outside in the rain until someone with a pass can let you in.
As for thanks -
We are told that there are definitely no discussions with virgin. We then find out that merger talks fell apart at the last minute.
No pay talks entertained.
No christmas card or even sentiment on a memo!!!
I found out about the toronto route from my sister who isn't in the industry, 2 weeks before the company told me.
411a, If you rented a house and it started falling down, would you renew the contract on the basis someone will have to fix it in the future??
You seem to be suggesting that these people should stay somewhere they don't want to be any longer. You have to remember that it is not just about money or promotion.
The airline simply isnt the same as it used to be. so when you've tasted the honey the current Sh*t tastes that much worse.
Driving in and out of LHR every day, six days a week to do palma then hannover, when you do happen to be lucky enough to have min rest nightstop in manchester you are rewarded with five sectors.
I remember nightstopping in:
AMS,BRU,DUB,CPH,HAM,FRA,CDG,MAD,BCN,FCO,LIN,MUC,WAW,DUS,CGN
Now
AMS,BRU,DUB
I remember being told that as a pilot were considered to be employed at management level!!
Now
We have to go and see the head teacher if we are sick. And unless you are lucky enough to be a captain or a cleaner you have to wait outside in the rain until someone with a pass can let you in.
As for thanks -
We are told that there are definitely no discussions with virgin. We then find out that merger talks fell apart at the last minute.
No pay talks entertained.
No christmas card or even sentiment on a memo!!!
I found out about the toronto route from my sister who isn't in the industry, 2 weeks before the company told me.
411a, If you rented a house and it started falling down, would you renew the contract on the basis someone will have to fix it in the future??
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The last place they should be looking is easyJet - they're the market leaders in unfulfilled promises, lies and rhetoric. The duty hours are worse, the disruption incredible and the politics laughable (once you're outside). It's only saving grace was a higher than average pay packet, but that appears to be becoming less pronounced, lots of new (if dirty) ac, and generally good trg.
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And for us poor Hall monkeys, they're downsizing the canteen !!!
Have it on good authority that a rise is in the offing.....
Any guesses as to what they may offer?
Will it be enough for us to pay off Olive?...
Have it on good authority that a rise is in the offing.....
Any guesses as to what they may offer?
Will it be enough for us to pay off Olive?...
they're downsizing the canteen !!!
It is a shame really, the company really seemed to be going places about 3-4 years ago, the managment seem to have lost their nerve completely now and we seem to be going backwards. How much longer before we are just a domestic carrier again I wonder. Come on Sir Mike (and the rest of the board IMHO) it's time to sell up and move aside.
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BA will be recruiting in the next few months. 4 321's to arrive in November and then one per month until ten delivered. These will need crews, especially with a type rating.
Plenty of night-stops and variation but they work hard as well!
Plenty of night-stops and variation but they work hard as well!
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Shafted -
Sounds just like BM alright! Back in 98 we BusinessAir employees found out we had been bought by BM 3 or 4 months after it had happened. I saw it all going down the ****ter at that point and broke out before they could take the p*ss any more. Get out boys before the lifeboats full.....
I found out about the toronto route from my sister who isn't in the industry, 2 weeks before the company told me.
Instead of moaning have you tried talking to the ones that matter. The pilot management started off at the same level as you so have they completely forgotten what it is like. Did they not moan about how things were?
You are some of the highest earners in the company, have allowances, etc. thrust at you at every turn and you still gripe. There are others who do their level best to ease problems for you guys and we are shown no appreciation at all not even a decent wage.
If you want things to change it has to start with someone, why not you.
moan over
You are some of the highest earners in the company, have allowances, etc. thrust at you at every turn and you still gripe. There are others who do their level best to ease problems for you guys and we are shown no appreciation at all not even a decent wage.
If you want things to change it has to start with someone, why not you.
moan over
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I don't normally get involved in these discussions but 'keyboard flyer' has finally persuaded me ..... your attitude typifies the problem:
- If pilots are highly-paid, it's because that's the going rate. The company (any company) is not a charity. If it's an issue for you, go out, spend 10's of thousands of your own money, live on bread and water for at least a year, sit a barrage of exams and then go and get a job as a pilot.
- The fact that pilots 'still moan' shows that it's everything but the pay that makes the difference to their lives: endless ******ing about by crewing (who are themselves working in unsatisfactory conditions), rosters late, reneging on agreements hard-won....the list goes on. Even overpaid pilots are entitled to a home life, old cock.
- Yes, those managers probably did whinge themselves, but the personal benefits that accrue from toeing the line once they are in senior positions, coupled with fear of what will happen if they don't turn all but the most principled (I haven't met one yet) into self-serving yes-men. The proof is all around you.
bmi 'management' has shown itself largely impervious to reasoned argument, so folk have only one vote left; their feet.
Good luck,all.
Rant ends.
- If pilots are highly-paid, it's because that's the going rate. The company (any company) is not a charity. If it's an issue for you, go out, spend 10's of thousands of your own money, live on bread and water for at least a year, sit a barrage of exams and then go and get a job as a pilot.
- The fact that pilots 'still moan' shows that it's everything but the pay that makes the difference to their lives: endless ******ing about by crewing (who are themselves working in unsatisfactory conditions), rosters late, reneging on agreements hard-won....the list goes on. Even overpaid pilots are entitled to a home life, old cock.
- Yes, those managers probably did whinge themselves, but the personal benefits that accrue from toeing the line once they are in senior positions, coupled with fear of what will happen if they don't turn all but the most principled (I haven't met one yet) into self-serving yes-men. The proof is all around you.
bmi 'management' has shown itself largely impervious to reasoned argument, so folk have only one vote left; their feet.
Good luck,all.
Rant ends.
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I was made redundant by bmi post 9/11. Up until that time I was very happy and looking forward to command. the terms and conditions were good and the salary slightly above average for an FO.
However the complete lack of information, the double talking and lack of coheseive, joined up thought regarding the business structure of the company was a disgrace. OK so it was a tough time but the true colours came out (thats if the true colours had been decided!).
Some very charming and professional people became managers with the good intention of making a difference and maintaining a happy and motivated workforce. Sadly the reality of being in an environment where the maltese breaststroke is king and a void of strategic information from SMB allied to cynical deal busting by AR has turned well meaning people into line toeing survivors.
No, I am not bitter but I do feel violated that bmi has made me cynical. I now work for another airline who communicate and act - how refreshing!
However the complete lack of information, the double talking and lack of coheseive, joined up thought regarding the business structure of the company was a disgrace. OK so it was a tough time but the true colours came out (thats if the true colours had been decided!).
Some very charming and professional people became managers with the good intention of making a difference and maintaining a happy and motivated workforce. Sadly the reality of being in an environment where the maltese breaststroke is king and a void of strategic information from SMB allied to cynical deal busting by AR has turned well meaning people into line toeing survivors.
No, I am not bitter but I do feel violated that bmi has made me cynical. I now work for another airline who communicate and act - how refreshing!
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Keyboard Flyer
1. Try talking to management or anyone at Donington Hall before you say such things.
2. I studied and trained to become a pilot at my own expence and became a professional. Doctors, Lawyers, Civil Servants, etc get trained at University which we all pay for (Mostly) in taxation. Why shouldn't I earn more than a cleaner? I have an extreme amount of responsibility compared to them. I also get tested in my ability every 6 months, do Lawyers, Doctors, etc?
Please don't belittle my profession.
1. Try talking to management or anyone at Donington Hall before you say such things.
2. I studied and trained to become a pilot at my own expence and became a professional. Doctors, Lawyers, Civil Servants, etc get trained at University which we all pay for (Mostly) in taxation. Why shouldn't I earn more than a cleaner? I have an extreme amount of responsibility compared to them. I also get tested in my ability every 6 months, do Lawyers, Doctors, etc?
Please don't belittle my profession.
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And as for Regional??
Last one out turn out the lights,Morale all time low,waste of time baby transfer agreement after years of carrot dangling,forced base moves looming and wet leased aircraft thats just for starters.
Last one out turn out the lights,Morale all time low,waste of time baby transfer agreement after years of carrot dangling,forced base moves looming and wet leased aircraft thats just for starters.
I am entitled to my opinion as is my right. I never compared anyone to a cleaner let alone belittle the profession, some professions are high earning but are they any more important than others. For example would anyone miss the binmen? not until the rubbish piles up then they would.
I have dealings with all levels of the company I work for and as with most companies there are ones who have the attitude of "look at me and take heed, I am management and am more important than you", or "I am a pilot and you are not."
I do feel that talking with management is a waste of time as the ones that would know and can do something sit in their air conned office and care little for the minnions.
I do deal with pilots and some are great, some are ok and some are full of their own importance, it is their attitude which gets my back up and it is mainly the one described as pilot management, senior pilots that look down on the rest. And yet when something goes wrong it is to others they turn to sort things out.
As I said at the start it is my opinion.
I have dealings with all levels of the company I work for and as with most companies there are ones who have the attitude of "look at me and take heed, I am management and am more important than you", or "I am a pilot and you are not."
I do feel that talking with management is a waste of time as the ones that would know and can do something sit in their air conned office and care little for the minnions.
I do deal with pilots and some are great, some are ok and some are full of their own importance, it is their attitude which gets my back up and it is mainly the one described as pilot management, senior pilots that look down on the rest. And yet when something goes wrong it is to others they turn to sort things out.
As I said at the start it is my opinion.