BA Restructuring Plans
This just in!
Have heard just now that the BACC have cancelled the General members meetings at BHX/LGW/LHR scheduled for next week pending the "big" announcement by BA on the 23rd of January.
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Whatever announcements are due the sharks in the "City" have obviously got wind of some news they like.
BA shares up 18p just this morning to 260p, highest they have been for a couple of years I would suggest.
BA shares up 18p just this morning to 260p, highest they have been for a couple of years I would suggest.
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Still if the unions keep blocking everything at some stage or another the entire empire will collaspe and well all be out of a job!!!!!
hmmmm i know what id rather,
So lets crack on sort this
out and then we can get on with our lives and do what we are paid to do....
Providing a service to the public!!!!
'Cause with out them our pockets dont get lined and we all form an orderley que at the employment offices!!!!
need i say more
nah didnt think so
WX
hmmmm i know what id rather,
So lets crack on sort this
out and then we can get on with our lives and do what we are paid to do.... Providing a service to the public!!!!
'Cause with out them our pockets dont get lined and we all form an orderley que at the employment offices!!!!
need i say more
nah didnt think so
WX
Last edited by GOBWX; 8th Jan 2004 at 06:43.
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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
This has to be the best unsubstantiated, totally implausible tosh I've seen on pprune in ages!
Yet still the 'usual suspects' of anti-BA propagandists emerge to denounce the so-called strategy. Apart from the fact that there's virtually nothing in that plan which benefits BA pilots and the BACC would have to be stark raving bonkers to even countenance agreeing to it, lets examine some of the better reasons why this 'plan' is garbage:
All LH flying to be done by mainline pilots
Great idea, but as BMed have a legally binding contract protecting their operation this can't be done.
All SH flying to be reorganised with SH pilots maintaining their current seats*.
*All SH captains above pay point 16 required to bid for LH.
Any LH captains displaced .......
Reorganised how precisely? If all pp16 SH Capts bid for LH there wouldn't be enough vacancies to go round. Plus we'd lose most trainers and all our fleet management (maybe thats not so bad). Besides, you can't 'displace' a LH Capt from his position by bidding, so thats a non-starter.
LHR and LGW work to be 'combined'.
Well BACC would love this, but LHR work to Bidline and LGW work to Carmen and you can't cross-roster. Also LGW is exclusively 737, LHR is predominantly Airbus. Dual basing aircraft would be extremely complex and costly.
All SH eastern European work to be transferred to BMed
BMed only have a handful of aircraft. Whilst they're carrying on with their legally contracted long haul work, where will they find the aircraft to operate a daily St. Petersburg, Kiev, Bucharest, Sofia, Belgrade, double-daily Moscow and quadruple daily Warsaw and Budapest? Not to mention Riga.
All remaining European work to be transferred to GB Airways
And where will GB get fifty Airbusses in a hurry?
All domestic work to be done by BACX
What, on their 16 RJ100s? How will those cope with an hourly shuttle to MAN, EDI and GLA, not to mention the NCL and ABZ services?
This whole plan is absolute, unspeakable nonsense! It seems to revolve around the fact that somehow BA can 'give away' their entire fleet of shorthaul aircraft divvying it up between BACX, GB and BMed, and that those operators can rapidly absorb a vast quantity of aircraft and crew them whilst relying on a shell of BA ground staff to run the operation at LHR T1. There is also the implicit assumption that BA pilots will follow the aircraft and willingly sign a contract which changes their terms and conditions to those of whichever of the three other companies they happen to be randomly assigned to! Fear not franchise colleagues, I've seen some b0ll0cks on this forum recently but this really is in a league of its own!
This has to be the best unsubstantiated, totally implausible tosh I've seen on pprune in ages! Yet still the 'usual suspects' of anti-BA propagandists emerge to denounce the so-called strategy. Apart from the fact that there's virtually nothing in that plan which benefits BA pilots and the BACC would have to be stark raving bonkers to even countenance agreeing to it, lets examine some of the better reasons why this 'plan' is garbage:All LH flying to be done by mainline pilots
Great idea, but as BMed have a legally binding contract protecting their operation this can't be done.
All SH flying to be reorganised with SH pilots maintaining their current seats*.
*All SH captains above pay point 16 required to bid for LH.
Any LH captains displaced .......
Reorganised how precisely? If all pp16 SH Capts bid for LH there wouldn't be enough vacancies to go round. Plus we'd lose most trainers and all our fleet management (maybe thats not so bad). Besides, you can't 'displace' a LH Capt from his position by bidding, so thats a non-starter.
LHR and LGW work to be 'combined'.
Well BACC would love this, but LHR work to Bidline and LGW work to Carmen and you can't cross-roster. Also LGW is exclusively 737, LHR is predominantly Airbus. Dual basing aircraft would be extremely complex and costly.
All SH eastern European work to be transferred to BMed
BMed only have a handful of aircraft. Whilst they're carrying on with their legally contracted long haul work, where will they find the aircraft to operate a daily St. Petersburg, Kiev, Bucharest, Sofia, Belgrade, double-daily Moscow and quadruple daily Warsaw and Budapest? Not to mention Riga.
All remaining European work to be transferred to GB Airways
And where will GB get fifty Airbusses in a hurry?
All domestic work to be done by BACX
What, on their 16 RJ100s? How will those cope with an hourly shuttle to MAN, EDI and GLA, not to mention the NCL and ABZ services?
This whole plan is absolute, unspeakable nonsense! It seems to revolve around the fact that somehow BA can 'give away' their entire fleet of shorthaul aircraft divvying it up between BACX, GB and BMed, and that those operators can rapidly absorb a vast quantity of aircraft and crew them whilst relying on a shell of BA ground staff to run the operation at LHR T1. There is also the implicit assumption that BA pilots will follow the aircraft and willingly sign a contract which changes their terms and conditions to those of whichever of the three other companies they happen to be randomly assigned to! Fear not franchise colleagues, I've seen some b0ll0cks on this forum recently but this really is in a league of its own!
Thread Starter
All LH flying to be done by mainline pilots
Great idea, but as BMed have a legally binding contract protecting their operation this can't be done.
***I believe that what was referred to was 'long' LH, not the BMed op.
All SH flying to be reorganised with SH pilots maintaining their current seats*.
*All SH captains above pay point 16 required to bid for LH.
Any LH captains displaced .......
Reorganised how precisely? If all pp16 SH Capts bid for LH there wouldn't be enough vacancies to go round. Plus we'd lose most trainers and all our fleet management (maybe thats not so bad). Besides, you can't 'displace' a LH Capt from his position by bidding, so thats a non-starter.
***At the moment P1s cannot be displaced but it will be a requirement as pasrt of the cost savings demanded of the pilots.
LHR and LGW work to be 'combined'.
***Combining meant combining all, I say again, ALL, SH work . BA SH, GB, BMed and BACX.
There will be a transition period whilst BMed GB and BACX set up their processes to enable them to integrate the soon to be ex BA a/c and the crews who will be transferred with them. Lots of BA pilots wish to keep their jobs and will be quite happy with the plans.
Great idea, but as BMed have a legally binding contract protecting their operation this can't be done.
***I believe that what was referred to was 'long' LH, not the BMed op.
All SH flying to be reorganised with SH pilots maintaining their current seats*.
*All SH captains above pay point 16 required to bid for LH.
Any LH captains displaced .......
Reorganised how precisely? If all pp16 SH Capts bid for LH there wouldn't be enough vacancies to go round. Plus we'd lose most trainers and all our fleet management (maybe thats not so bad). Besides, you can't 'displace' a LH Capt from his position by bidding, so thats a non-starter.
***At the moment P1s cannot be displaced but it will be a requirement as pasrt of the cost savings demanded of the pilots.
LHR and LGW work to be 'combined'.
***Combining meant combining all, I say again, ALL, SH work . BA SH, GB, BMed and BACX.
There will be a transition period whilst BMed GB and BACX set up their processes to enable them to integrate the soon to be ex BA a/c and the crews who will be transferred with them. Lots of BA pilots wish to keep their jobs and will be quite happy with the plans.
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Sorry Shaman but its still a load of garbage. BMed work is 'long' long haul. Its further to Ethiopia than it is to Nigeria or the Middle East. BMed is not a short haul operation in any sense. Even their shortest routes match the length of some of our long haul routes. Which leads nicely to your next suggestion that short haul work for BA, BACX, GB and BMed is to be combined. Well as I just explained, BMed aren't short haul in any sense. Furthermore, like BMed, GB have a legally binding contract which BA cannot overturn in order to combine the businesses. GB have made it quite clear they wish to carry on as a franchise and do not wish to be subsumed into BA and there's nothing BA can do about that other than to buy them out of their contract at huge expense. Quite how do you define 'combining' the work when what you're actually suggesting is splitting the work between three seperate and distinct compannies. The plan actually contradicts itself!
***At the moment P1s cannot be displaced but it will be a requirement as pasrt of the cost savings demanded of the pilots
There will be a transition period whilst BMed GB and BACX set up their processes to enable them to integrate the soon to be ex BA a/c and the crews who will be transferred with them. Lots of BA pilots wish to keep their jobs and will be quite happy with the plans.
Now these two points represent nothing less than wholesale, unnegotiated, massive changes to each pilots contract of employment. Notwithstanding the fact that BA cannot implement this without the agreement of individual contract holders, do you for one moment believe that BA pilots would vote for a scheme which robs LH pilots of their commands, forces senior SH Captains to go to LH against their wishes then divides the entire shorthaul operation (737,757,767,Airbus) into three seperate companies (BACX, GB and BMed) with differing pay and conditions? Dream on. No BA pilot would be happy with those plans. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Even if this whole thread wasn't ludicrous enough, what you fail to point out is that this grandiose scheme wouldn't actually do anything to reduce the overheads which are the true problem within BA. It still leaves all the Waterworld dead wood, the militant loaders and drivers, and the cabin crew (who sure as hell won't agree to that), but just loads an extra level of administration and management into the smaller companies. I suggest if you want sensible plans you'd more success writing the grafitti on the back of the bog doors in Compass centre.
***At the moment P1s cannot be displaced but it will be a requirement as pasrt of the cost savings demanded of the pilots
There will be a transition period whilst BMed GB and BACX set up their processes to enable them to integrate the soon to be ex BA a/c and the crews who will be transferred with them. Lots of BA pilots wish to keep their jobs and will be quite happy with the plans.
Now these two points represent nothing less than wholesale, unnegotiated, massive changes to each pilots contract of employment. Notwithstanding the fact that BA cannot implement this without the agreement of individual contract holders, do you for one moment believe that BA pilots would vote for a scheme which robs LH pilots of their commands, forces senior SH Captains to go to LH against their wishes then divides the entire shorthaul operation (737,757,767,Airbus) into three seperate companies (BACX, GB and BMed) with differing pay and conditions? Dream on. No BA pilot would be happy with those plans. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Even if this whole thread wasn't ludicrous enough, what you fail to point out is that this grandiose scheme wouldn't actually do anything to reduce the overheads which are the true problem within BA. It still leaves all the Waterworld dead wood, the militant loaders and drivers, and the cabin crew (who sure as hell won't agree to that), but just loads an extra level of administration and management into the smaller companies. I suggest if you want sensible plans you'd more success writing the grafitti on the back of the bog doors in Compass centre.
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BA - What Is Rod Up To?
According to www.crewcom.co.uk , Rod Eddington's dog and his children were recently despatched to Perth, Western Australia.
Coupled with the fact the share price has suddenly risen dramatically, this is causing all sorts of speculation.
Can anyone elaborate?
Coupled with the fact the share price has suddenly risen dramatically, this is causing all sorts of speculation.
Can anyone elaborate?
Perth, WA, as well as sharing its name with a well-known Scottish city, is a bonza place with hardly ever a cloud in the sky, an affable population, was the venue for an America's cup defence, is one of the most isolated capital cities in the world and home to some fair dinkum brill micro-breweries.
Rod's got the right idea.
Elaborate enuff?
Rod's got the right idea.
Elaborate enuff?
Carnage Matey.
So the rumours of bidding for A319 routes out of LGW and that 737s are to be sent back to the regions is cobblers as well then?
Well BACC would love this, but LHR work to Bidline and LGW work to Carmen and you can't cross-roster. Also LGW is exclusively 737, LHR is predominantly Airbus. Dual basing aircraft would be extremely complex and costly.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
I thought Rod Eddington's from Perth, WA.? Maybe he's just sent the kids to see their grandma? Perth in January would be very nice.
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Hovis
The A319 is going to LGW as a replacement for the 737s. Even with the most optimistic planning the first three won't start arriving before fourth quarter this year. There's nothing new in that. When the Airbus fleet at LGW becomes sizeable around 2005/2006 then BA will have the opportunity to develop a common base with LHR, but they'll have to grasp the nettle and roster the LGW guys the same way as the LHR guys, something which they are currently unwilling to do. The 737s might end up in the regions eventually (they should never have left), but they'll be being flown by BA mainline crews if they are.
Bealine
I wouldn't attach any credence to the Rod rumour. First it was his dog sent home. Two weeks later everyone thinks his children went too. Next week they'll be saying Rod went with them. This sounds rather like the 'absolute, 100% confirmed fact by groundstaff' rumour that Rod went to Hong Kong when the ground staff walked out, only for it to be revealed he was in Compass centre all along!
The A319 is going to LGW as a replacement for the 737s. Even with the most optimistic planning the first three won't start arriving before fourth quarter this year. There's nothing new in that. When the Airbus fleet at LGW becomes sizeable around 2005/2006 then BA will have the opportunity to develop a common base with LHR, but they'll have to grasp the nettle and roster the LGW guys the same way as the LHR guys, something which they are currently unwilling to do. The 737s might end up in the regions eventually (they should never have left), but they'll be being flown by BA mainline crews if they are.
Bealine
I wouldn't attach any credence to the Rod rumour. First it was his dog sent home. Two weeks later everyone thinks his children went too. Next week they'll be saying Rod went with them. This sounds rather like the 'absolute, 100% confirmed fact by groundstaff' rumour that Rod went to Hong Kong when the ground staff walked out, only for it to be revealed he was in Compass centre all along!
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Text message #1 received earlier this week:
"Due to possible major announcement by BA on 23rd Jan, GMMs postponed. Please see forum for further details. BALPA"
Sender: Mobmsgc.com
Text message #2 received shortly after was words to the effect (I can't remember the exact wording since I deleted the message):
The message you received from BALPA earlier was sent to you by mistake. Please ignore
"Due to possible major announcement by BA on 23rd Jan, GMMs postponed. Please see forum for further details. BALPA"
Sender: Mobmsgc.com
Text message #2 received shortly after was words to the effect (I can't remember the exact wording since I deleted the message):
The message you received from BALPA earlier was sent to you by mistake. Please ignore
Just another number
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I would like to congratulate Shaman on his hearing and memory. To overhear an entire conversation in a Waterside cafe, while two ladies chatter away in French, and then to remember every detail is truly commendable.
Airclues
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I find it very difficult to believe that a major announcement would come on a Friday. Most of the Waterworlders would have left for the weekend on Thursday to avoid the rush. That’s if don’t ‘work’ from home?
