Hellasjet A320 over paris no com for 30min??
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: athens
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hellasjet A320 over paris no com for 30min??
Maybe just a rumour but heard that HellasJet(new operator from LGAV), had A320 flying in French airspace on route to CDG "quiet" for 30 mins and fighters were scrambled to intercept!!
Anyone ??
Anyone ??
Can't tell you anything about this specific case. Not an uncommon occurence. Our unit has been involved in a couple of similar scrambles in the last couple of months. There are a number of reasons why this happens. Some are technical, and others just down to poor airmanship and awareness (such as speakers selected with very low volume - and not noticing that they haven't heard any r/t activity in 30 minutes whilst overflying busy European airspace during peak daytime hours). Has been happening for years. However, this day and age, with the terrorist potential, such "silent" flights have to be visually inspected.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: athens
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AVMAN thks for info , my querry then stands as to if any actions / reports are made against airlines or aviators to prevent more happenings?? Especialy if fighters have to be dispatched!!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Croydon
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not know about that incident, but what I can confirm to you is a level bust coming out of Gatwick. It caused an RA for us, we had to climb to avoid them, and we gave an RA to another a/c. When Gatwick director got hold of them to query the incident the pilots replying were very rude to him. Do not know mate but not a very professional image. I have not seen them since in Gatwick, and I do not know where they come from, but with such clowns upfront they better keep away from UK airspace before they kill someone.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Croydon
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Otrex yes, I do confirm, Hellasjet caused havoc over the congested Gatwick airspace as they did not follow the climb restrictions on their sid. The point I was making was that after Gatwick director called them to let them know of the problem they had caused they were rude on the radio, and completely unaware of the sid climb restrictions. Mistakes can happen, ignorance is undesirable, but arrogance is dangerous especialy on the flight deck of a modern aircraft.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely , can't agree more.
You know what, suprises me sometimes how strict the authorities and training departments can be with the british operators , while the "visitors" get away with murder.
We get all the talk about noise, continuous descents, rate of climb or descent reduction when approaching your assigned level (which are all very nice and correct) and at the same time the visiting operators can bust levels and be rude as well (a minority of them I must add)
Years ago I used to operate to swiss airports regularly and the swiss airport authorities were very keen on sending us plotted charts and reports on even minor sid infringements. Anyone knows whether thats the way british authorities are dealing with foreign airlines?
You know what, suprises me sometimes how strict the authorities and training departments can be with the british operators , while the "visitors" get away with murder.
We get all the talk about noise, continuous descents, rate of climb or descent reduction when approaching your assigned level (which are all very nice and correct) and at the same time the visiting operators can bust levels and be rude as well (a minority of them I must add)
Years ago I used to operate to swiss airports regularly and the swiss airport authorities were very keen on sending us plotted charts and reports on even minor sid infringements. Anyone knows whether thats the way british authorities are dealing with foreign airlines?
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: This is the internet FFS.........
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skyslave,
With all due repect, I'm can't even remotely see what relevance your post has here. And naming an operator like that isn't very professional is it.
I'm there are many people about here that could fill pages and pages of the level busts they have seen, and chances are, your operator (if applicable) may very well be one.
With all due repect, I'm can't even remotely see what relevance your post has here. And naming an operator like that isn't very professional is it.
I'm there are many people about here that could fill pages and pages of the level busts they have seen, and chances are, your operator (if applicable) may very well be one.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Getting a life!
Hey Skyslave,
Have you ever operated out of Thessalonica or Samos in the middle of a Thunderstorm on a cold winters night? NO radar and all procedure!
**** happens and we can't all be perfect. Let it pass you by and move on!
I have had this many times in the London zone as have many of us. Major carriers included!
This is why you are paid to stay on your toes!
Have a good New Year!
Have you ever operated out of Thessalonica or Samos in the middle of a Thunderstorm on a cold winters night? NO radar and all procedure!
**** happens and we can't all be perfect. Let it pass you by and move on!
I have had this many times in the London zone as have many of us. Major carriers included!
This is why you are paid to stay on your toes!
Have a good New Year!
Skyslave,
Given Hellas Jet crews have been trained and flown for a large part of their carrier on a procedural environment. Also Greece has a collission free atc history despite adopting Radar separation some 5 years ago, and having to cope with very heavy traffic between Europe and Middle East and Africa.
I fail to see how Hellas Jet pilot messed a climb clearance particularly flying an A320.
Happy new year with health and money .
Rwy in Sight
Given Hellas Jet crews have been trained and flown for a large part of their carrier on a procedural environment. Also Greece has a collission free atc history despite adopting Radar separation some 5 years ago, and having to cope with very heavy traffic between Europe and Middle East and Africa.
I fail to see how Hellas Jet pilot messed a climb clearance particularly flying an A320.
Happy new year with health and money .
Rwy in Sight
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Croydon
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rwy in Sight, thank you. Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to everyone.
Roxy, I have only operated to and from the previous Athens Airport, not the new one. Never to Thessaloniki, and never to Samos
Jericho, I was not shaming anyone on pprune, I was only stating the facts. Hellasjet pilots shamed themselves with their RT conduct and their behaviour on the radio and they did not need anyones assistance to embarass their company.
My posting was not to question Greek pilot's training, their flying abilities, or the country's ATC standards and safety history.
I did some research on their web site, and they are a new company, they just started over the summer, so they are not an old company with a proven record. They only fly to three destinations and they only have three aircraft.
My point was that they were rude and unapologetic to Gatwick director. They were arrogant and tried to blame Gatwick for their missunderstanding. (The madame on clearance delivery told me to climb 70, so leave me alone it is your fault.) was one of the comments. The RT is not the place to have an open discussion, nor is it proffesional to blame anyone. We can only show our company's ethos by what we say on the RT and other operators can only judge our operation by the way we conduct our RT.
Happy Landings everyone
Roxy, I have only operated to and from the previous Athens Airport, not the new one. Never to Thessaloniki, and never to Samos
Jericho, I was not shaming anyone on pprune, I was only stating the facts. Hellasjet pilots shamed themselves with their RT conduct and their behaviour on the radio and they did not need anyones assistance to embarass their company.
My posting was not to question Greek pilot's training, their flying abilities, or the country's ATC standards and safety history.
I did some research on their web site, and they are a new company, they just started over the summer, so they are not an old company with a proven record. They only fly to three destinations and they only have three aircraft.
My point was that they were rude and unapologetic to Gatwick director. They were arrogant and tried to blame Gatwick for their missunderstanding. (The madame on clearance delivery told me to climb 70, so leave me alone it is your fault.) was one of the comments. The RT is not the place to have an open discussion, nor is it proffesional to blame anyone. We can only show our company's ethos by what we say on the RT and other operators can only judge our operation by the way we conduct our RT.
Happy Landings everyone
Ut Sementem Feeceris
I'm with you on this one Skyslave. It is very unprofessional to argue on the R/T but even more so to not read your SID plate properly and blast off into the London TMA 
.............
If anything this has alerted me to keep an ear open for "Hellasjet". Is that their call sign?
Roxy, I'm not sure I understand your point about operating in Greek airspace, no radar etc. I've done it (at night, in thunderstorms ) and it certainly can be demanding - more so than flying a SID out of LGW in a Bus with radar cover.
Happy New Year everyone.
A4
............. If anything this has alerted me to keep an ear open for "Hellasjet". Is that their call sign?
Roxy, I'm not sure I understand your point about operating in Greek airspace, no radar etc. I've done it (at night, in thunderstorms
) and it certainly can be demanding - more so than flying a SID out of LGW in a Bus with radar cover. Happy New Year everyone.
A4
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: This is the internet FFS.........
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not know about that incident, but what I can confirm to you is a level bust coming out of Gatwick
I'll repeat again:
With all due repect, I'm can't even remotely see what relevance your post has here
Sure, you're stating the facts. I'm not detracting from that. And there is never an excuse for arguing over the R/T. But what does it have to do with a no-com over Paris? Sorry if I'm being a little obstinant.
And I stand by what I said above as well. No need to start a "I had an incident involving XYZ operator" thing. It's not a nice game to play. Also, can I direct you to a little notification at the bottom of the page? You can confirm?! Sounds like something a journo would say!
Last edited by Jerricho; 1st Jan 2004 at 14:10.
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Croydon
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jerricho, Happy New Year to you aswell.
With the audacity you are defending them I would thing you work for them, (especialy when you wake up at 7 in the morning to edit your posting, or maybe it is that you live in Greece and 7 in the morning UK time is 10 Greek time.) Anyway, the title of the posting says "Hellasjet A320 over Paris no com for 30 min" This title to me, means that someone else has noticed, or heard of them having Communications problems. In my small mind it said hey this is a recurring theme in just a couple of days. Communication problems in Paris, RT problems in London. That was the connection I saw.
Why do you think a Journo would care about this particular incident so much, what is it that you know that the rest of us do not know. Every day on PPrune stories come up, others true, others not about one operator or another. I would not have even posted it here had it not been for the existance of Hellajet posting on PPRUNE
I am not going to continue this issue any further, if you want more explanations pm me and we can talk further
With the audacity you are defending them I would thing you work for them, (especialy when you wake up at 7 in the morning to edit your posting, or maybe it is that you live in Greece and 7 in the morning UK time is 10 Greek time.) Anyway, the title of the posting says "Hellasjet A320 over Paris no com for 30 min" This title to me, means that someone else has noticed, or heard of them having Communications problems. In my small mind it said hey this is a recurring theme in just a couple of days. Communication problems in Paris, RT problems in London. That was the connection I saw.
Why do you think a Journo would care about this particular incident so much, what is it that you know that the rest of us do not know. Every day on PPrune stories come up, others true, others not about one operator or another. I would not have even posted it here had it not been for the existance of Hellajet posting on PPRUNE
I am not going to continue this issue any further, if you want more explanations pm me and we can talk further
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: This is the internet FFS.........
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not going to bother with a PM........I'll put it here.
Ummm, stick around for a bit and you'll learn I'm not a pilot, and I'm not Greek either.
If you want to talk facts, there is a scheduled Hellas flight each evening into LHR, and while their English isn't outstanding, it's far better than some operators. Personally, I have never had a problem with them. But this is all beside the point.
As Avman described, there could be various reasons for an extended period of no communication between ATC and a jet. BA had major problems with sleeping recievers, especially into Heathrow in the late downwind position, which wasn't the most favourable of places. To attempt to even draw an inference between this and ONE crew's inability to comply with a SID is folly indeed, especially for a professional pilot.
I'll make a deal with you................I'll not make any inferenced about you sounding like a journo if you stop trying to hijack threads with whatever little crusade you feel you have to achieve.
(BTW -
Very narrow minded. Great thing this thing the Internet. Do you need that explained to you as well?)
Ummm, stick around for a bit and you'll learn I'm not a pilot, and I'm not Greek either.
If you want to talk facts, there is a scheduled Hellas flight each evening into LHR, and while their English isn't outstanding, it's far better than some operators. Personally, I have never had a problem with them. But this is all beside the point.
As Avman described, there could be various reasons for an extended period of no communication between ATC and a jet. BA had major problems with sleeping recievers, especially into Heathrow in the late downwind position, which wasn't the most favourable of places. To attempt to even draw an inference between this and ONE crew's inability to comply with a SID is folly indeed, especially for a professional pilot.
I'll make a deal with you................I'll not make any inferenced about you sounding like a journo if you stop trying to hijack threads with whatever little crusade you feel you have to achieve.
(BTW -
(especialy when you wake up at 7 in the morning to edit your posting, or maybe it is that you live in Greece and 7 in the morning UK time is 10 Greek time.)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greystation
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Joining my London ATC collegue I have never had any problems with HellasJet and also struggle to remember them ever flying into LGW, only the regular flight into LHR every day.
If you want to name and shame airlines that go RTF potential fail for 10 mins or more, get out the A-Z of airlines and start typing EVERY entry you find as they all do it from time to time. As for a TCAS RA - they also happen for many reasons, most not even any error involved, just a climb vs descent rate closure being too quick. If the problem was serious then forms would be filled and the relevent agencies would be dealing with it anyway.
fantastic assumption, cannot wait for you to check in on my frequency 
If you want to name and shame airlines that go RTF potential fail for 10 mins or more, get out the A-Z of airlines and start typing EVERY entry you find as they all do it from time to time. As for a TCAS RA - they also happen for many reasons, most not even any error involved, just a climb vs descent rate closure being too quick. If the problem was serious then forms would be filled and the relevent agencies would be dealing with it anyway.
but with such clowns upfront they better keep away from UK airspace before they kill someone.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny Comments...
I wonder how professional the authors of certain posts, that I read in here, might be, when they refer to unidentified rumors for an airline carrier, with comments such as…clowns and potential killers!
When a comment, post or statement for a specific Air-Carrier is made, should be considered as professional, ONLY if it’s:
1. Dully signed by the author
2. Stating proven facts
3. Describes the incident in details and in full (by the way did the authorities or any airline have filled any incident declaration, so far, for the mentioned airline?)
4. Being precise and obviously polite!
Any other post as such of PPL Mr. Chauvinist Anonymous, should be treated as … at least strange!
Happy New Year!
When a comment, post or statement for a specific Air-Carrier is made, should be considered as professional, ONLY if it’s:
1. Dully signed by the author
2. Stating proven facts
3. Describes the incident in details and in full (by the way did the authorities or any airline have filled any incident declaration, so far, for the mentioned airline?)
4. Being precise and obviously polite!
Any other post as such of PPL Mr. Chauvinist Anonymous, should be treated as … at least strange!
Happy New Year!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skyslave has a good point: rudenes on the r/t flags arrogance in the cockpit, and arrogance in the cockpit has been shown to be a big factor in numerous major disasters.
R/t silence for 30 mins in busy skies sounds more like tiredness/distraction in the cockpit, which can be no less dangerous.
Happy, and safe, New Year!!
R/t silence for 30 mins in busy skies sounds more like tiredness/distraction in the cockpit, which can be no less dangerous.
Happy, and safe, New Year!!