Ba Engineers Reject Pay Offer
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: HEAVEN
Mainfrog 2
"Surely this is a rejection of a pay offer and not a vote for strike action. So it's a bit premature to talk about strikes."
You are so right, Engineers don't have to go out on strike, they have more ways of making a point than just walking out the door.
As has already been stated just the threat is enough to alter adanced sales and we know how important that is to the bottom line. ( scheduling, rostering, supply etc.)
If you are not intending on stopping an Airline there is always the option of slowing the operation down and what group of employees can do that as easily and lawfully as engineers. You see Engineers are very much focussed on Company performance and usually go the extra mile in time and effort to get the A/C on line for an ontime departure, but why bother if the employer can't see the value in it, or you.
You chaps that sit at the pointy end and think that every thing is working O.K. well........................................................ ................... Don't panic I am not implying that you or the passenger are not safe but with every defect that is actioned by Engineers there are many ways to increase the down time for its rectification, and on time departures would be a thing of the past.
Engineering groups all over the world have been cut to the bone to improve company profit, ( we can thank the worlds best practices for that) ( thanks USA). Overtime is an essential part of any Engineering operation, but only a reasonable amount should be allowed for unforeseen peaks not rostered for, and not to con the bean counters into thinking that the same work can be done with fewer staff. Overtime is not mandatory and engineers can refuse to work it, then what happens to ontime departures; a thing of the past.
You may not be aware but all work should be scrutinised and certified by appropriate qualified Engineers. It is the companies intention to reduce the number of these highly trained Engineers and employ trades people with out the appropriate qualification, just another way the company is trying to stretch resources.
I say BRING IT ON!!! Engineers are not as stupid as those collegues of yours in Australia ('89) who walked out and then could never come back.
"Surely this is a rejection of a pay offer and not a vote for strike action. So it's a bit premature to talk about strikes."
You are so right, Engineers don't have to go out on strike, they have more ways of making a point than just walking out the door.
As has already been stated just the threat is enough to alter adanced sales and we know how important that is to the bottom line. ( scheduling, rostering, supply etc.)
If you are not intending on stopping an Airline there is always the option of slowing the operation down and what group of employees can do that as easily and lawfully as engineers. You see Engineers are very much focussed on Company performance and usually go the extra mile in time and effort to get the A/C on line for an ontime departure, but why bother if the employer can't see the value in it, or you.
You chaps that sit at the pointy end and think that every thing is working O.K. well........................................................ ................... Don't panic I am not implying that you or the passenger are not safe but with every defect that is actioned by Engineers there are many ways to increase the down time for its rectification, and on time departures would be a thing of the past.
Engineering groups all over the world have been cut to the bone to improve company profit, ( we can thank the worlds best practices for that) ( thanks USA). Overtime is an essential part of any Engineering operation, but only a reasonable amount should be allowed for unforeseen peaks not rostered for, and not to con the bean counters into thinking that the same work can be done with fewer staff. Overtime is not mandatory and engineers can refuse to work it, then what happens to ontime departures; a thing of the past.
You may not be aware but all work should be scrutinised and certified by appropriate qualified Engineers. It is the companies intention to reduce the number of these highly trained Engineers and employ trades people with out the appropriate qualification, just another way the company is trying to stretch resources.
I say BRING IT ON!!! Engineers are not as stupid as those collegues of yours in Australia ('89) who walked out and then could never come back.
Last edited by Orville; 18th September 2003 at 14:11.
Guest
Posts: n/a
You are so right Orville, in all the industries and all the companies I've ever worked for a 'work to rule' policy was far more effective at bringing the company around to your way of thinking than any strike action. I feel what your stating has to be the way forward.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
From: UK
Hey 411a, fantasy boy, you are like weeds in a garden, you get everywhere if your not careful.
Engineers are critical to the operation and every pilot knows it. BA's have been messed-about by the company to the point where I doubt they care what the outcome of a strike is.
As to your remarks about pilots: do you ever stop? Find something genuinely positive to say, I challenge you.
How's the start-up progressing, by the way? How many down-trodden dolts are you hoping to employ as flight crew for your "outfit"? With your reputation you'll have 'em queueing round the block to get in (not!).
Engineers are critical to the operation and every pilot knows it. BA's have been messed-about by the company to the point where I doubt they care what the outcome of a strike is.
As to your remarks about pilots: do you ever stop? Find something genuinely positive to say, I challenge you.
How's the start-up progressing, by the way? How many down-trodden dolts are you hoping to employ as flight crew for your "outfit"? With your reputation you'll have 'em queueing round the block to get in (not!).
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 262
From: Blighty
According to Airmech, negotiations broke down yesterday 1 day before the end of the 2 week cooling off period. Management are refusing to budge on the 3% plus strings offer. Staff side asked that the strings be removed and discussed seperately. No dice!
Looks like the slippery slope, no wonder the shares dropped this week.
Looks like the slippery slope, no wonder the shares dropped this week.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
From: in the sky with diamonds
striking is not the way foward ,it will only give the engineers a bad press.and ba will use the strike as an excuse for the slide in the share price,blame the engineers and take away any flak from the mis-managers.
KLM engineers went on a wild cat strike last year,which cost KLM 22 million euros for 1 days strike.wild cat strikes in the netherland is against the law,and KLm took the unions and the striking engineers to court,KLM won.
each striking engineer was fined 10,000 euros.after the court hearing the dispute was not resolved,but the engineers made damm sure every defect was done by the book to the letter of the law.no flexiblity at all, no overtime ,no hil items.the delays lasted two weeks and the management gave in.
the engineers got there 16% payrise.
KLM engineers went on a wild cat strike last year,which cost KLM 22 million euros for 1 days strike.wild cat strikes in the netherland is against the law,and KLm took the unions and the striking engineers to court,KLM won.
each striking engineer was fined 10,000 euros.after the court hearing the dispute was not resolved,but the engineers made damm sure every defect was done by the book to the letter of the law.no flexiblity at all, no overtime ,no hil items.the delays lasted two weeks and the management gave in.
the engineers got there 16% payrise.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 613
Likes: 1
From: sussex
Rumour has it the EWS project is now running towards the £100m
mark .
Does this have anything to do with the Engineering director
being a bit short of cash and staff. ?
His name suggests where he should work !
mark .
Does this have anything to do with the Engineering director
being a bit short of cash and staff. ?
His name suggests where he should work !
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
From: The Beautiful South
Actually over 125 MILLION and counting............It doesn't work and SAP (the software designers) have almost washed their hands of it because BA have been messing around with it , in a desperate attempt to salvage something for their money.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: London
Cirrus, do you mean that the SAP software doesn't work, or the implementation of the software hasn't worked: I get the impression it's the latter...
I'd be surprised if it were the former bearing in mind the SAP standards and the amount of time (and money) that was spent on its implementation.
Many firms seem to have difficulty in the migration to a SAP environment - not just BA - so I'm not surprised that we keep reading reports of productivity declining since it went in. The question is what can be done about it - because there's absolutely no way SAP / EWS is going to stop now.
Answers on a postcard?
I'd be surprised if it were the former bearing in mind the SAP standards and the amount of time (and money) that was spent on its implementation.
Many firms seem to have difficulty in the migration to a SAP environment - not just BA - so I'm not surprised that we keep reading reports of productivity declining since it went in. The question is what can be done about it - because there's absolutely no way SAP / EWS is going to stop now.
Answers on a postcard?
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Midlands, UK
<engineering is often the most profitable part of the airline> ??
Lloydm where on earth did you dream that beauty of misinformation from?
Sorry...worse still, I miss quoted you ...'the only profitable part of an airline'...????
Lloydm where on earth did you dream that beauty of misinformation from?
Sorry...worse still, I miss quoted you ...'the only profitable part of an airline'...????
Last edited by Jack The Lad; 29th September 2003 at 03:29.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: An Island sometimes in the sun
Jack the Lad
Well..........Since giving up flying em (sort of), a little bit of fixing em and some shootin em down I became a beancounter
Now I know its all in the reading but if you can interpret a set of books properly which takes......yes seven years to be qualified to do .If you look at the books, and know how to,it will become self and intuitively evident
Question:
What do Air Canada and Virgin USA ( you heard it here first) have in common?
I hope the above question asserts my validity
Well..........Since giving up flying em (sort of), a little bit of fixing em and some shootin em down I became a beancounter
Now I know its all in the reading but if you can interpret a set of books properly which takes......yes seven years to be qualified to do .If you look at the books, and know how to,it will become self and intuitively evident
Question:
What do Air Canada and Virgin USA ( you heard it here first) have in common?
I hope the above question asserts my validity
