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-   -   Bristow S92 down west of Bergen Norway (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/657874-bristow-s92-down-west-bergen-norway.html)

212man 2nd Mar 2024 22:16


Originally Posted by albatross (Post 11607759)
Got it now.Thank you very much.
My BAD ……the P+W PT6 AD is 2024-04-51 not 05-51
Note to self “Drink Morning Coffee and allow it to take desired effect upon brain function before posting!”

Must be getting old - pretty sure you’d have been sharper in the morning in Miri!

NOQ 2nd Mar 2024 22:33

What is that damage in the tail area and what could cause the Floaters to not work?

helimutt 2nd Mar 2024 23:15

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e4cc3ed997.png

SASless 2nd Mar 2024 23:57

Which model of float system was installed on the accident aircraft?

Must it not be activated until entry into the water but would self inflate if "Armed" by means of saltwater immersion switches?

The Cougar 91 Accident Report contains discussion re the various models of float systems and the procedures that pertain but that tragedy occurred some time ago and there might be differences today than noted in that report.

Perhaps someone familiar with the aircraft in question can address the workings of the Float System on this particular model or configuration of the accident aircraft.



malabo 3rd Mar 2024 00:46

Curious not just the workings of the float system but SOP on its use.

The 139 manufacturer SOP always got high marks from me for arming the floats whenever over water, regardless of speed. Some operators refused to follow that, arming only below a reduced speed.

ADSB looks like the power never came back in after the last level-off at 300' (coupled?)

Igor13 3rd Mar 2024 00:49


Originally Posted by SASless (Post 11607858)
Which model of float system was installed on the accident aircraft?

Must it not be activated until entry into the water but would self inflate if "Armed" by means of saltwater immersion switches?

The Cougar 91 Accident Report contains discussion re the various models of float systems and the procedures that pertain but that tragedy occurred some time ago and there might be differences today than noted in that report.

Perhaps someone familiar with the aircraft in question can address the workings of the Float System on this particular model or configuration of the accident aircraft.


If you droop the rotor, below a threshold, during a cushioning into the water, they will not auto deploy as some power requirements are now offline. Even if armed. So either, don't droop too low, or be aware of this and smash the manual deploy button upon entry.

That lights normal! 3rd Mar 2024 02:20

Does that AD mean AW189s also need inspections before further flight?

GE CT7-2E1 engines

albatross 3rd Mar 2024 03:40


Originally Posted by Igor13 (Post 11607875)
If you droop the rotor, below a threshold, during a cushioning into the water, they will not auto deploy as some power requirements are now offline. Even if armed. So either, don't droop too low, or be aware of this and smash the manual deploy button upon entry.

Float PWR is redundant and powered by both the #1 DC Primary Bus AND the Battery bus. So even if the RPM should drop so low (+- 80% Nr ) as to take the generators off line and the APU is not running. the system is still powered by the BATT BUS. The crew could also manually deploy the floats upon water contact, provided the system is armed, if they are unsure that the deployment system will function as advertised or the floats actually do not deploy automatically.

VNE floats armed is 80 Kts IAS. You get a caution light if you exceed 80 Kts with the floats armed followed by a nastygram weeks, if not months later from the FD monitors ( “You were the designated Captain and exceeded the VNE FLOATS Armed by 2 Kts! Do you care to comment????” A reply stating “ NO I do not care to comment. FYI I did, however, have the designated Co-pilot, who is a TRI, flogged upon return to base following quick Rotorhead Court Martial” worked very well. )

As regards “Different float Systems” The initial aircraft was equipped with “Sea State 5” floats which had 2 bags on the nose and one under the tail boom. later there was an upgrade to “Sea State 6” which added an additional float on each sponson. Arming and deployment SOP, Switches and manual deployment remained the same.
Looking at the photos you can see the aircraft had the “ Sea State 6” floats ( Panel aft and slightly below the panel with the word “Rescue”on the Stb. Sponson ) .

[email protected] 3rd Mar 2024 05:56

Other than a catastrophic power loss in the hover, one other possibility is an AFCS malfunction where the rad height didn't capture at the end of a TD. (or possibly finger trouble)

ginty79 3rd Mar 2024 06:20


Originally Posted by albatross (Post 11607899)
Float PWR is redundant and powered by both the #1 DC Primary Bus AND the Battery bus. So even if the RPM should drop so low (+- 80% Nr ) as to take the generators off line and the APU is not running. the system is still powered by the BATT BUS. The crew could also manually deploy the floats upon water contact, provided the system is armed, if they are unsure that the deployment system will function as advertised or the floats actually do not deploy automatically.

VNE floats armed is 80 Kts IAS. You get a caution light if you exceed 80 Kts with the floats armed followed by a nastygram weeks, if not months later from the FD monitors ( “You were the designated Captain and exceeded the VNE FLOATS Armed by 2 Kts! Do you care to comment????” A reply stating “ NO I do not care to comment. FYI I did, however, have the designated Co-pilot, who is a TRI, flogged upon return to base following quick Rotorhead Court Martial” worked very well. )

As regards “Different float Systems” The initial aircraft was equipped with “Sea State 5” floats which had 2 bags on the nose and one under the tail boom. later there was an upgrade to “Sea State 6” which added an additional float on each sponson. Arming and deployment SOP, Switches and manual deployment remained the same.
Looking at the photos you can see the aircraft had the “ Sea State 6” floats ( Panel aft and slightly below the panel with the word “Rescue”on the Stb. Sponson ) .

Mate only manual floats work on BATT power. The immersion switches won’t work only on the BATT.

Igor13 3rd Mar 2024 07:56


Originally Posted by albatross (Post 11607899)
Float PWR is redundant and powered by both the #1 DC Primary Bus AND the Battery bus. So even if the RPM should drop so low (+- 80% Nr ) as to take the generators off line and the APU is not running. the system is still powered by the BATT BUS. The crew could also manually deploy the floats upon water contact, provided the system is armed, if they are unsure that the deployment system will function as advertised or the floats actually do not deploy automatically.

VNE floats armed is 80 Kts IAS. You get a caution light if you exceed 80 Kts with the floats armed followed by a nastygram weeks, if not months later from the FD monitors ( “You were the designated Captain and exceeded the VNE FLOATS Armed by 2 Kts! Do you care to comment????” A reply stating “ NO I do not care to comment. FYI I did, however, have the designated Co-pilot, who is a TRI, flogged upon return to base following quick Rotorhead Court Martial” worked very well. )

As regards “Different float Systems” The initial aircraft was equipped with “Sea State 5” floats which had 2 bags on the nose and one under the tail boom. later there was an upgrade to “Sea State 6” which added an additional float on each sponson. Arming and deployment SOP, Switches and manual deployment remained the same.
Looking at the photos you can see the aircraft had the “ Sea State 6” floats ( Panel aft and slightly below the panel with the word “Rescue”on the Stb. Sponson ) .

Lots of good stuff there except I need to correct the one detail, on battery the floats do not auto deploy via immersion switches, even if armed.

Manual deployment required, which was my point.

malabo 3rd Mar 2024 08:23


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11607916)
...one other possibility is an AFCS malfunction where the rad height didn't capture at the end of a TD. (or possibly finger trouble)

From the ADSB it looks like altitude (rad alt) was captured, some power pulled in which sent the airspeed back to 100, then power back to slow down. What AP modes are coupled here? Who, how is the power controlled?

Reminds me of an Aberdeen 332L flying a scuddy non-precision to a beach airport that ended up in the water 10 years ago. Again curious on the training and SOP for the 92 in this situation, and if Bristow, CHC or even Cougar match up. We've spent over 20 years trying to figure out the best integration of autopilots in helicopters, it should be figured out now.

helicrazi 3rd Mar 2024 09:10


Originally Posted by malabo (Post 11608005)
From the ADSB it looks like altitude (rad alt) was captured, some power pulled in which sent the airspeed back to 100, then power back to slow down. What AP modes are coupled here? Who, how is the power controlled?

Reminds me of an Aberdeen 332L flying a scuddy non-precision to a beach airport that ended up in the water 10 years ago. Again curious on the training and SOP for the 92 in this situation, and if Bristow, CHC or even Cougar match up. We've spent over 20 years trying to figure out the best integration of autopilots in helicopters, it should be figured out now.

Autopilot likely is figured out. Weak point is usually the human interface.

ctscanner 3rd Mar 2024 10:05

What is the normal crew complement on the S92 for this role? It is tragic that anyone lost their life but I am wondering why so many people were onboard a training flight. Previous posts and media reports say that the victim was a nurse employed by Equinor. Is it routine for SAR training flights to carry supernumeraries onboard?

GenuineHoverBug 3rd Mar 2024 14:49


Originally Posted by ShyTorque (Post 11607723)
There’s a big contrast between the major damage to the main rotor blades and little or none to the tail rotor.

Just about the only piece of information from the NSIA so far on what happened, is that impact damage suggests that it came down in a pitch-down attitude.
The recorder has been transported to the UK for download.

helicrazi 3rd Mar 2024 15:08


Originally Posted by GenuineHoverBug (Post 11608219)
Just about the only piece of information from the NSIA so far on what happened, is that impact damage suggests that it came down in a pitch-down attitude.
The recorder has been transported to the UK for download.

Surely pitch down would damage the nose and flir mount? I see more rear damage?

finalchecksplease 3rd Mar 2024 15:09


Originally Posted by ctscanner (Post 11608075)
What is the normal crew complement on the S92 for this role? It is tragic that anyone lost their life but I am wondering why so many people were onboard a training flight. Previous posts and media reports say that the victim was a nurse employed by Equinor. Is it routine for SAR training flights to carry supernumeraries onboard?

AFAIK Pilot/co-pilot/winch op/winch man/flight nurse, 6th person possibly a rear crew trainer, no doubt in due course we will find out what the role of the 6th person was.

albatross 3rd Mar 2024 16:05


Originally Posted by Igor13 (Post 11607978)
Lots of good stuff there except I need to correct the one detail, on battery the floats do not auto deploy via immersion switches, even if armed.

Manual deployment required, which was my point.

I was looking at a old training manual and could not find a warning that the immersion switches are not powered when on Batt. Power only. Do you have a reference I could use? Thanks for the info.
I did find a reference that if you are on the ground, floats armed and below 80% NR you will get a “Floats” warning caption…perhaps that is a warning that the immersion switches are no longer powered.
Interpreting Wiring Diagrams are very far from any of area of my supposed expertise. How a lightbulb works is a mystery to me.

ShyTorque 3rd Mar 2024 18:59


Originally Posted by GenuineHoverBug (Post 11608219)
Just about the only piece of information from the NSIA so far on what happened, is that impact damage suggests that it came down in a pitch-down attitude.
The recorder has been transported to the UK for download.

I'll be interested to learn if the tail rotor was turning at the time of impact.

Mitchaa 3rd Mar 2024 20:00


Originally Posted by ShyTorque (Post 11608351)
I'll be interested to learn if the tail rotor was turning at the time of impact.

I would think the rotor disc has impacted the water and thrown the blades, severing the drive to the tail rotor before aircraft turns upside down and sinks? Explains why there is no MR but still an intact TR?


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