Cumbria - Dauphin in the fog...
There's a video doing the rounds on Facebook.
https://www.facebook-DOT-com/brian.weatherall.7/videos/10156472130493490/UzpfSTYzNTg2ODQ4OToyMTcxMzc3MjAzMTg1NDU4/ Chap driving round a corner to be met by a Dauphin looming out the fog at the end of his bonnet... I can only find it on Facebook, others might have more luck finding it elsewhere... https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...befac304cf.jpg |
Honest Guv.....I retired in '06 and I ain't never flown a Dauphin!
Been there and done that back when I was a dedicated Rudscunner!:uhoh: |
Yes, those who need to know already know who it was.
As someone once said to me after arriving at our refuel airfield during a mission: "What was the vis like when you broke cloud at MDH?" I answered truthfully: "We didn't fly an instrument approach, The vis here was too poor to fly IFR, so we had to maintain VMC". I did have top cover... But these days the (civvy) rules are different and I stick to them. |
IFR - I follow roads ;-)
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Originally Posted by Flying Bull
(Post 10213087)
IFR - I follow roads ;-)
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And no bl&&^y fog lights either...
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wow, been there, done that.....
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I was panicking for a minute there but then I realised there are no GNAAS stickers on it...!!!! Ha. Clearly that dauphin is not a dauphin, it doesn't exist, never has, must be a ghost or something. |
Gents, the subtle glorification of a truly **** bit of airmanship is a risk to our brethren on ROTORHEAD with low skills a high egos. There are no circumstances acceptable EVER to fly in such a manner as to risk the safety of your aircraft or crew. |
Originally Posted by DOUBLE BOGEY
(Post 10213357)
Gents, the subtle glorification of a truly **** bit of airmanship is a risk to our brethren on ROTORHEAD with low skills a high egos. There are no circumstances acceptable EVER to fly in such a manner as to risk the safety of your aircraft or crew. |
Originally Posted by DOUBLE BOGEY
(Post 10213357)
Gents, the subtle glorification of a truly **** bit of airmanship is a risk to our brethren on ROTORHEAD with low skills a high egos. There are no circumstances acceptable EVER to fly in such a manner as to risk the safety of your aircraft or But as always, only having little information, who knows? May be the crew knows the routing, has been there before, is it a bad weather crossing opportunity? May be it’s just the ridge, much better 500 meters before and behind? May be they are on a live saving mission, where somebody will die for sure, if they don’t fly? Seems, the crew is working together, with an open door for better vis. They are going slowly at the side of the road to avoid trucktraffic, gear down. They have a stone wall, which makes good visual reference. I wouldnˋt throw the first stone, cause I have been in an similar situation, just worse. Caught out in a heavy shower at night (NVG), radar telling me, either way around at least 15 miles of ****ty weather.... Hillside, with trees. So I ended up, hovering along a powerline, which I illuminated with the landing light, cause I couldn’t see from mast to mast and would have certainly ended in it, if I had lost sight of it. One eye on the fuel gauge, which seemed to empty far to fast, hoping for a clearing, where I could put the bird down - but didn’t find one. Nowadays I for sure circumnavigate that area if the weather gets bad again - and or terminate the flight. Still, last winter, have been searching for someone on another hillside, where the wind cumulated the clouds along the slope. It was night again and we were around 100 feet ground in some places, but with an escaperoute visiable and a crew, who worked together. Would have been an interesting sight from the ground as well... |
212
But why would you want to hover taxi in that ? Difficult to see wire lines as it is, bearing in mind most follow roads and low level ones arent on a chart ! Not a very good advert for junior pilots, doesnt matter if it is a HEMS heli or not |
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
(Post 10213085)
Yes, those who need to know already know who it was.
As someone once said to me after arriving at our refuel airfield during a mission: "What was the vis like when you broke cloud at MDH?" I answered truthfully: "We didn't fly an instrument approach, The vis here was too poor to fly IFR, so we had to maintain VMC". I did have top cover... But these days the (civvy) rules are different and I stick to them. |
Originally Posted by Flying Bull
(Post 10213394)
May be the crew knows the routing, has been there before, is it a bad weather crossing opportunity? May be it’s just the ridge, much better 500 meters before and behind? May be they are on a live saving mission, where somebody will die for sure, if they don’t fly? |
Originally Posted by Hawkeye0001
(Post 10213422)
None of these points make a particularly good excuse to pull this stunt on purpose. I'm sure we've all got ourselves in a crappy situation like this, but as you said the lesson you should take home (if you get home in one piece) is to either go around ****ty weather next time or land). And: no patient's life is ever important enough to knowingly risk and endanger the lifes of your two or three crew members and innocent bystanders on the ground.
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Originally Posted by Hughes500
(Post 10213395)
212
But why would you want to hover taxi in that ? Difficult to see wire lines as it is, bearing in mind most follow roads and low level ones arent on a chart ! Not a very good advert for junior pilots, doesnt matter if it is a HEMS heli or not If you fly an assigned area, you normally have some bad weather routes, which you know throughout, especially where the wires are and where not. “My area“ is also divided by a long ridgeline, where clouds like to accumulate. Every 20 miles or so I know a gap, where I could try, if need be, without risking to encounter unknown powerlines. Its always a juggle between the mission, the experience of the crew and what you can do without risking too much.... |
Originally Posted by Nige321
(Post 10213426)
It's not a HEMS flight, it's a bunch of miltary types you wouldn't want to meet on a dark night...
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Not sure where the chat about HEMS comes from after I used the terms 'insertion/extraction'? For those that still haven't got it: 658 Squadron Army Air Corps
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@212man so it’s military flying, not civil and risking their lives to protect and serve is part of their job. Sure they won‘t tell us why they were there 😏 |
It's the Kirkstone Pass a couple of miles from Ullswater.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...b44af28524.jpg The view from the car in better visibility https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...41e53e130c.jpg Looking the other way, where the Dauphin was heading... |
All I see is a “weather balloon”................ |
Gents, the subtle glorification of a truly **** bit of airmanship is a risk to our brethren on ROTORHEAD with low skills a high egos. There are no circumstances acceptable EVER to fly in such a manner as to risk the safety of your aircraft or crew |
There is a time and place for everything.....and without knowing the full circumtances....how does one properly judge?
If the route was known to be free of obstructions and it was the Pass that was fogged in and better conditions were at each end...the controlling rules afforded dispensation for the flight in such conditions....then what is the problem? If it was a "special" flight....then don't we want the crew to have the expertise, experience, and proficiency to carry out their Tasking? As we do not know....and are not going to know....then there should not be a very crowded "Outrage" Bus. it's a bunch of miltary types you wouldn't want to meet on a dark night... Certainly not the kind of folk you wish to have any kind of feud with! |
Well said Crab! I want my special forces that protect me to be the best most experienced and capable in the world. |
Crab.....I doubt very much that flying through Cumbria constitutes a viable military response. Even if it did.......never risk the cab and crew. I too have served my time, mil, HEMS ETC. There are rules....even in the military....that expressly prevent such activity and you know that Crab! But hey...let’s all wave our Willy’s about. |
Best to bear in mind that even if "our chaps" didn't train to fly in very poor visibility to get certain missions done, the other side will.
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Shy....there are rules to prevent the young, dumb and full of c*m from self destructing. We are not at war! they are flying in less than 50m vis. Suicide unless Lady Luck holds your hand. |
We are not at war! Some Folks are always prepared at very short notice to confront evil nose to nose! |
SAS I prefer “Train Hard.....Fight Easy” However there has to be limits and common sense! |
Takes me back to Odius in the early eighties. Happy hour on Friday night, thick, thick fog then heard the sound of a Puma. All went quiet. 10 mins later, LB and crew hurtled through the bar window looking for a beer. No one was quite sure how they'd done it, and they didn't say.
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But why would you want to hover taxi in that ? |
We are not at war! Tomorrow, maybe... |
If you want to practice it for real,then close the public roads and f*&k about to satisfy your ego..In this case if a family were driving along there,and had an accident due to the startle effect,lapse in concentration,whatever,then who would be to blame...?HO(OLI)GANS Heroes...?
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Train hard yes. However if this was training being so close to members of the public so as to put them at risk is not acceptable. Go do it in Otterburn. Any dash cam in general use contains a wide angle lens. This is clearly the case therefore the aircraft and rotor blades will be closer than they look.... and being able to hear it pass on the audio backs this up. I wonder how the cyclist who was overtaken at the start of the clip felt a few seconds later. Might downwash have blown him across a greasy wet road into the oncoming car.... just a bit of perspective. Of course if it was for tasking then fair enough. Can’t imagine it is though. Being a twin IFR cab though a high level transit of the lakes might be best. All just food for thought.
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No one hurt, no property damaged, so why all the hurry to get on the Outrage Bus....how were any of you harmed by any of this? The aircraft was clear of the roadway.... no wires close by....after all it wasn’t a Purple Flight or a Charter. |
There are no excuses for flying like this along a public road. When you work in the Military, Police or HEMS you are supposed to add value. In my view this crew will be young and inexperienced. That’s proven by the **** decision they are making and the real hero’s, the boys in the back, are along for the ride whether they agree or otherwise. I have made similar mistakes and also survived. However they are mistakes. My original post is aimed at recognising this incident for what it really is........a bad decision and poor airmanship. It’s a mistake to tar the SAS themselves with this as they are not at the controls. |
In my view this crew will be young and inexperienced. |
So when I pulled an injured bike rider off a mountain in thick fog on the TT races and transported a dying soldier to hospital with my skids on the ground to get over hills, those were mistakes, were they? sometimes you just gotta have a go (within your capabilities).
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Paco you are describing HEMS. There are minimum vis and cloud base rules in the SPA and they do not allow flight in thick fog.....so not only mistakes but blatant disregard for the rules. The number 1 priority in any medical emergency is to not become a casualty yourself. The SPA contains limits to stop the gung-ho from killing themselves and any other poor sap they take with the. IOM TT HEMS.......subject to same EASA rules as everyone else. in the case of IOM TT a road response is a few minutes away. The rider knows and has accepted the risks. Your crew deserve better. They deserve and should expect you to make an effort to follow the rules. NEXT! |
I see professionals going about their business. Legally.
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