Thanks for that dunwinching;) My wife still regales people with that tale.

I took the easier option and just gave up smoking for real:ok:

Glad to hear it. If you want sight of a truly impressive - possibly Intergalactic in scale - cock up / waste of money, try UK MFTS RW which should prevent any trained aircrew being available for SAR or indeed anything else. Luckily it's only twice as expensive as the present system.

Pozidrive - found it, but is that all the SAR action? - my wife looked at all the horrendous TV footage and said 'Where are all the helicopters?'

Dunwinching - yes I keep hearing stories about how Shawbury is being carved up again - not for the better it would seem!

DunWinching: Regurgitating the same old rubbish. MFTS is planning to train what the customer asks for, so if there is no requirement for SAR aircrew then they won't be trained. However, the RN require winching skills as a secondary role for their aircrew so appropriate training will be provided - for them, at least.

I'd be happy to debate that, but the trouble is that we'd have to know how much the present system costs and we don't, do we? That's part of the problem that led to MFTS - the MOD simply has no idea how much it costs to train a RW student. Still, never let a good rumour get in the way of facts...

Without stirring it I thought the same thing, I remember the pictures of the Sea Kings queueing up at Boscastle and Cockermouth a few years ago where a disabled friend of mine got picked out of his top window by Sea King.

So could the new service put a load of airframes in the same place at the same time if needed? or is the 92 just overly big to be in the hover over towns? Saying that a 92 trundled up Wensleydale low last night after dark last night.

The S92 would have to hover very, very high over an urban area to avoid its downwash doing more harm than good. With the delicacy of the situation eg little old ladies in RIBs, poor old Joe Public really doesn't need his day spoiled further by a localised hurricane adding to his woes. It would have to be situation critical to warrant an S92.

"Where are all the helicopters?..."


Looking at the press reports there was no shortage of teams with boats, and apparently nobody who couldn't be reached from the existing roads. So why use expensive helicopters if its all under control at ground level?


At Boscastle, for example, there was no road access, people were trapped on the upper floors of buildings that were collapsing - a very different situation.

No, they were on the roof of a building that wasn't collapsing and would have been quite safe inside - the Fire and Rescue team led them to the roof. The only road issue was the bridge right in the middle of the village. To quote Max Boyce 'I know cos I was there':)

Look at the Gloucester floods to see how many were rescued in situations that boats were wholly unsuitable for - fast flowing water inland is very dangerous.

However, it may be that in recent years, the emergency services have changed the way they approach flooding and personnel recovery, clearly they try to get people out earlier than they did.

A cynic might argue that if they are not tasked by the MCA (maintaining priority for the coastal areas) then it is no wonder we haven't seen any CG helos in the flooded areas.

Total nonsense.

Tasking SAR helicopters, regardless of their livery, remains the responsibility of the RAF ARCC (for now) and any genuine requests for assistance will no doubt be treated in the same way they always have been. Prestwick, Caernarfon and Humberside have all been involved inland in recent flooding incidents in both Cumbria and Yorkshire.

It's more likely the case that the press don't get too excited unless there is something dramatic and large scale a la Boscastle.

Crab, the same old tune is getting a bit repetitive now. Even to those on your side of the fence.

The present flooding is far, far worse and on a much larger scale than Boscastle and Gloucester and Cockermouth - yet only one small press report of a helicopter that might have winched someone from their house....

We had a process for constantly rebriefing Gold and Silver commanders about the capabilities of SAR helicopters and their availability but Regional Liaison officers are a thing of the past, as are the SARLOs that we would send out to directly interface with Gold command.

Do the MCA have such a structure in place now??????? And I mean using people who actually understand helicopters.

If no-one knows there are helos available then no-one will ask for them.

Bristow have done liaison work with the MRTs and RNLI units near their bases but how far inland has that work progressed?

Sorry if you are bored with the tune but until the new service is as capable as the old then you might well have to keep listening to it.

Crab,

Regional Liaison Officers are still alive and well. I refer you to my comment re. Prestwick, Caernarfon and Humberside. The fact that there is little press footage doesn't mean some good work hasn't been happening! The fact that quite a bit has been going on in the dark has probably contributed to the lack of footage.

Obviously the flooding is widespread but the emergency services have had plenty of experience in the last few years and you could argue that they have a greater understanding of what a helicopter can (and can't) offer. You don't always need a hammer to crack a nut.

I guarantee that if a large scale helicopter evacuation had been necessary in the past few days and it had occurred in daylight that there would be plenty of footage of SAR helicopters.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion about the standard of the new service but please don't demean yourself by suggesting that SAR helicopters have not responded to flooding incidents because the MCA wants to prioritise coastal coverage. That is total b*llocks but could well be taken as truth by those less informed/press trolls.

Media
 

Perhaps MCA need to invest in a media ops team - or perhaps they should just carry on the good work and spend our money wisely and not bother the busy reporters.

Here is a link that may delight - some. 🦀

Changing of the Guard | Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry

Llamaman - so where are the press releases, the statements of rescues and assistance given? Surely the MCA are not shy about their new service?

Is what used to be called military assistance to the civil community part of the new SAR service?

Good to see the Chinook helping out taking equipment in to the flood defences in York. Could a S-92 not have done that job?

Do the MCA cabs have a SACRU? The Chinook was 80 ft stropping

Perhaps they heard that if they wanted helicopters, they'd have to deal with you, and thought better of it?

No, MCA S92s do not have a cargo hook.

There was a statement about having an underslung load capability in a MCA-Bristow FAQ in 2014.

"Q. Will the new aircraft have an underslung capability?
A. Yes. All of our aircraft are capable of carrying underslung loads but will not carry the necessary hook at all times. This capability would be used on an ad hoc basis and after consultation with the MCA and CAA."

While that may look llike a good idea, what also looks like a good idea is that SAR guys stick to SAR and SH guys who are doing underslung for their day job do that when needed.

Day job etc granted, but SAR crews are generally rather good at USL serials as accurate hover / response to patter etc tend to be useful most trips. But if the hook is not normally fitted, continuity of practice must be difficult.

be to differ.. UK sar s92s do have cargo hooks.... at least 1 at each base...

In that case, no different to what we had in milsar since the SACRUs were removed for weight saving and only fitted when required - not sure if there is the same USL currency tick required for Bristow crews as there was for milsar.

Still, Boscastle - SAR helos of every colour, Gloucester - yellow helos (at least 2) Cockermouth - yellow helos, Yorkshire 2015..............................

alfred the great - as many have said here, I don't do that job any more so that really shouldn't be an issue should it? I am one person with an opinion but an awful lot of people seem rather afraid of that.................

I think you are getting a bit carried away with your "powers" there.

You are a topic of conversation amongst crews it has to be said but I won't repeat exactly what I've heard but it is to do with bells. Not the whole bell you understand; just the end. :ok:

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I give you the "UK SAR 2013 privatisation ... new thread" quote of the year 2015.


:E


And the runner-up was:

How surprising - back to personal insults when there are no answers:ugh:

Do you really think anyone meaningful from MCA or Bristow is going to pop in here and answer your bitter questions? If you do then you are not as bright as you (sometimes) come across.

You have chipped and chipped away at the new service which remember, you did apply to join, and went silent for a few months while they sifted through the applications and now you are back with the same chip chip attitude.

I'm sure all those people you used to work with in the RAF are proud of you as you keep having a go at them in their new role as civvies.

If you look 90 left and 90 right perhaps you will see where those chips truly are.

P3 - I don't know where you get the idea that I am bitter, or that I have chips on my shoulders.

Yes, I applied for a job - quite natural as an experienced SAR QHI - and I didn't get selected; was I disappointed? yes, but only because I felt I could contribute considerably to the new service.

Do I hold a burning grudge against Bristow? No, in many ways they did me a favour by not letting me take the easy option of continuing in SAR until retirement. I know you won't believe it but I really enjoy what I am doing now - teaching skills and passing on the benefit of my experience was why I became a QHI in the first place.

As to criticising the new service - I am well aware that there are some top lads and lasses who work in it (I even trained some of them) but I wait for the day when what is claimed to be at least an equal SAR service to what we provided actually appears, without aircraft availability issues, fully meeting the contract, with everyone fully trained and competent (not just current) and with full night capability across the fleet.

I and many others worked very hard to maintain and improve the standards of flying ability, knowledge and capability in the military SAR service and I know there will be some within the new service trying to do the same.

Subject change!

Just had my first sight of the new S92 over Helston and Culdrose this morning. Nice looking cab in flight but was surprised at the rotor noise compared to the trusty Seaking and even our Merlins. It was even noiser than the Dutch NH90s that were over here last month. I could understand if it was all 5 bladed heads against the S92 but the NH90 only has 4 also. I know the vibes etc have been discussed previously but just an observation from someone who has been around helicopters a very long time to his first view of the new cab.

cheers now

Yes. Quite noisy, and yes, noise and vibration have had some discussion on here.

Four versus five has been the subject of fairly pointless discussion and rumour in several quarters. It's a modern powerful helicopter. It makes a noise. A solution that moves that amount of air without making a noise will not arrive any time soon. Maybe for our grandchildren.

Way back in 1966 when they were trialling the new Puma there was a lot of sucking of teeth about rotor noise and especially vibration. They tried everything and they were at the point of cutting metal for a five bladed rotor head when some burke dreamt up the barbeque plate.

The four bladed rotor plagued Pumas until the five bladed 225.

Surely everyone can acknowledge that in the past, over many years in fact, military support to the civil power has been utilised. SAR aircraft haven't always been used for under slung loads in the past when military SAR had the watch, SH crews did their bit then just as they are now. Please don't make out that the use of SH in a crisis as we are experiencing now is suddenly new in a civil emergency because SAR is now no longer a military task!

Goodbye "AgustaWestland," hello "Finmeccanica-Helicopters."
 

Finmeccanica launches One Company | Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry


Sent from my iPhone

Buccaneer Bill : They already have a PR Department - but unless the "event" happens on the South Coast they aren't interested.

They don't!!
Their Future Coastguard Project was a "jobs for the boys" exercise and introduced another level of "management". They have also replaced many experienced Coastal Rescue practitioners with displaced Ops Room Staff. Whilst they may be very good in their previous post - they will find life at the coal face a different ball game.Sadly it will be left to the volunteer Coastguard Rescue Officers to "carry" these inexperienced "managers" until they get the required experience to become competent.:ugh:

Future? :confused:

Hansard. 1925. The Lords considering a Bill for the transfer of the Coastguard from the Admiralty to the Board of Trade.

"COASTGUARD BILL
LORD ABERCONWAY
... ... Another point which, perhaps, the noble Viscount will explain is this: On what system will appointments be made to the force if this Bill passes? At present appointments, I believe, are confined to naval ratings—petty officers of the Navy. Under this Bill the President of the Board, of Trade could appoint anybody—a superannuated gardener or chauffeur, or anybody without special training. ..."

:ugh:

Something short and snappy that everyone can pronounce perhaps? :ugh:

I see the S-92 got a public airing on TV today (as did those on the end of the line).

From Crab,

"Llamaman - so where are the press releases, the statements of rescues and assistance given? Surely the MCA are not shy about their new service?

Is what used to be called military assistance to the civil community part of the new SAR service?"

In my opinion the MCA press machine hasn't fully embraced the new aeronautical world, maybe that will come in time? Or maybe they can't afford to employ a full-time media comms team akin to the way the Navy and RAF did business.

In answer to your second question; the military isn't the service provider therefore how can 'new' civilian SAR provide military assistance to the civil community? That particular niche capability available on the back of military SAR has been lost. Questions to your MP as to what has filled the gap (don't hold your breath).

Perhaps it is as simple as the MCA press team has reduced manning over the festive period and their focus is on their primary task of alerting people to the dangers of the stormy weather (e.g. people on cliff paths/seaside watching the stormy conditions at sea) rather than tooting their own horn?

Inland rescues by Prestwick and Inverness(?) helicopters are certainly getting plenty of local press and social media coverage in Scotland at the moment where over the past 24 hours rivers levels have and continue to rise quickly.

On a practical level, has there been a significant requirement for rescues in England recently?

Many of the areas in Cumbria seem to have been hit 3 or 4 times now over the past month so those most likely to be immediate danger have long since been flooded out anyway.

Likewise it seemed to be mainly commercial areas that took brunt of the damage in Leeds while both Leeds and York are large urban areas that likely have more than enough council personnel, emergency services and others on hand to effect timely evacuations or carry out boat rescues in what appear relatively mild flood conditions (at least compared to some of the footage of rivers in spate washing away bridges elsewhere).

This is where it's at.

https://twitter.com/mca_media
https://www.facebook.com/MCA/
re-type - httpCOLON//hmcoastguardDOTblogspotDOTco.uk/
https://www.youtube.com/user/officialCoastguard
Bristow News - bristowgroup.com
https://twitter.com/Bristow_Group
https://twitter.com/sotondamo
https://twitter.com/l7stx
https://twitter.com/Coastie_JM
https://twitter.com/UKSARRescue936
https://twitter.com/lf92

https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...stguard-agency

As the curtain closes, a very emotional thank you to military SAR for everything you have done.

Hear hear. Heartfelt thanks to you all.

And good luck and safe flying to the boys and girls in the new SAR service in the New Year and beyond:ok: