I have no problem in the crew room, the aircraft or anywhere else Crab. Possibly because the selection team did a good job in recruiting crews for UK SAR and we did not inherit any 'SAR Gods'. We all seem to get along just fine thank you.;)

oooohhh so pointed and hurtful :D back to the playground......

You know they say that if you don't know who the d*ck is in the crewroom......it's you;)

Poor Crab. :sad:

He's obviously missing SAR so much.

I spent a very happy and satisfying 22 years flying yellow Wessex and Sea Kings (after two tours of green Wessex). Judging from the 'banter' of late I'm glad I retired when I did - the latest cr@p from certain ex players is pathetic. :=

Not if same again is a typical example of the workforce - fortunately I know he isn't:ok:

Well said. I just think it's all a bit sad really. Probably better to be remembered as a good operator rather than what is portrayed here. :sad:

Albert - perhaps if your posts were constantly met with personal abuse or derogatory comments, you might get a bit bored with it and react in kind since it seems to be the only language some understand here.

I had my say about civilianising SAR and, apart from some reasoned arguments to counter, most of the replies have been unpleasant whether on a personal or professional basis - all from people who don't know me and have never worked with me.

Happy Christmas to all:ok:

Unfortunately you have had your say on numerous occasions which is why you (and not me) are the object of derision in many crew rooms. Anyone who has done the same job for 30+ years needs to be proficient, if not rather good at it, and I have no doubt that you are. But we do not need to hear it time and time again.

You don't fly SAR anymore and it has moved on so you are effectively an armchair expert.

Hope this thread dies after 1st jan when there is only civil sar.
A nostalgia Mil Sar thread might be a good idea perhaps with a better karma..
Give it 6 months and people will have forgot there ever was a Mil Sar.
People are fickle.

The implementation phase is scheduled to be complete on 1st july 2017. :E


Between 1st Jan 2016 and then there are four things due to happen.

- AW189 (aka The Westland Affair Mk XIII) :ugh:

- NVG for Stornoway and Sumburgh :ok: ... ... :suspect:

- GAP to MAIN contract changeover at Lee and Sumburgh (1st Apr 2017) then Stornoway (1st Jul 2017) :ok:

- End of service at Portland (30th Jun 2017) :sad:

thats my point Jim... Its all Civilian...

Perhaps then in the words of the Disney song so people can:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk



Let it go...

There are two contracts split between two contractors in a way that means there are effectively three providers under two regulator regimes. :confused:

Effectively, this is still almost as much of a very British mess as it was ten years ago. :ugh:

In Q3 2017 it will be sorted. The first entirely-planned SAR helicopter service for the UK. :ok:

great..........what could possibly go wrong? :E

(It's sar Jim, but not as we know it! :8)

Everything! Which is why 2495 posts might not be quite enough. :eek:

Watched the link Lowfat not having seen the film. Best thing on this thread!!!!

SAR Wars - episode....?
 

2495 posts might not be quite enough! ;)

When was the incident shown in the clip? I can see it was in the northern Cairngorms but I'm not sure if it's a dig at the RAF not being able to attend because their helicopter was broken, or a pop at Bristow for being unable to do night mountains?

no, it's mostly ex-military which is the only reason it stands a chance of succeeding. But most of those in it agree it will take a couple of years to get to where it needs to be - so much for no lesser service at the point of handover.

Give it up......
 

John,

FFS put the keyboard down and step away from the computer. Give it up, you are not only tarnishing your own reputation but also that of your former RAF and AAC colleagues. I went for a job interview the other day and mentioned that I was taught to fly the Lynx at SAAvn. The interviewer then asked whether I knew Crab@, and had to spend the next 20 mins extolling the virtues and limitations of military aviation and its relevance to the civilian world.

Thanks champ.

:D

Crab, it's not the same. It was never going to be the same no matter what happened. :{

I would say that it is already of equal value overall through the reliability of the aircraft and the raft of excellent modern kit.

Two or three years from now I fully expect that it will have put all that old fogey yellow rivet-bag stuff completely in the shade. What we, who hugely respect the work that has been done by MilSAR across 60+ years, really do not need during that period is to have you forcing us to cast that service in a negative light when it is just not necessary. :=

It's over. It was good. It was heroic. It was yet another British military triumph of skill and determination overcoming idiotic bureaucracy and rubbish kit. "The floppy, carbon-based, ape-descended life-forms in the green onesies" made it happen. :ok:

Tomorrow is another day. A day of powerful engines, glass cockpits, double winches, computer mission systems, satellite comms, huge downwash, short servicing periods and a decent cab heater. :ok:



In 2016, a few things need to happen to ensure that the work of your generation of British military SAR practitioners is not just adequately respected but also competently developed.

• The new incarnation of the Aeronautical Rescue Co-ordination Centre needs to be competent. It won't be the same either. It will have some new fancy kit and new people in a new location. Many of us remain concerned about the change. Of course, like the helicopter service, the old way was good but it wasn't perfect either, and it is only fair that matters related to the new centre are considered in that light.
• The Yeovil/Bristow AW189 needs to get sorted.
• It would be good if the AW189 situation does not distract Bristow from introducing NVG early at the two bases with the most darkness!

In 2017, three bases change contract and one closes.


Beyond 2017, we need to keep making noises about how the next generation of civilian SAR Technical Crew are trained. Should this be a licensed aviation trade?

And the risk of industrial action. Let's not pretend that UK SAR aircrew weren't less than a few days from strike action about 5 years ago.

I think you'll find this has already been raised by a CAA ops inspector.

Jim - all the new kit in the world won't make for a good SAR service if the people aren't well trained and maintain high levels of competency rather than bare-bones currency.

You still don't get the fact that I do want it to be a success, but I want it to be a real success not a smoke and mirrors PR exercise to showcase the MCA and Bristow so they can sell their new SAR model across the world.

Zic, If I am the only thing civvy operators can think of to ask you about on a job interview, it really doesn't say much for them does it? If knowing me is detrimental to your career prospects then just don't tell them - it's no skin off my nose. There is a big fat file on my desk (my old 5000) that has pages of complimentary stuff about my contribution to flying training and SAR over the years, written by people I respect - perhaps if your future employers want to know the real crab@ they could stop believing what they read on here for starters.

I'm not tarnishing anyone else's reputation - you stand on your own 2 feet and if you are not brave enough to put your head above the parapet when you know something isn't right then that isn't my problem.

Apologies for going off-thread a little, but how did you lay hands on your 5000 series? The last entry in mine would have been in 1984 - but it would still be interesting to have a look!!

Dan, you probably need to talk to Air Command at High Wycombe or ask the question on the Mil forum - I asked for and was given mine as I left.

The world is watching. Not just this contract. People are watching NAWSARH and FI-SAR.

At NAWSARH there may be a few hiccups but the concept of buying your military new large modern SAR helicopters will be of interest and something of a contrast to the UK SAR Helicopter Service.

FI-SAR looks ready to stamp the AW189 situation with BRISTOW'S FAULT in large bold letters. There may have to be lots of smoke and mirriors in stock. :ugh:

If FISAR doesn't launch on time how can Bristow be blamed?! AAR have that contract...

That's not where I am going with that.

If AW189 SAR for FI-SAR is another c0ck-up then it looks like it's all about AW.

If AW189 SAR for FI-SAR is spec complete and certified and on time, or even subject to only minor delays, then looks like it's all about Bristow.

So with two AW189 SAR at Newquay ready for service that will be rolled off a ramp at Mount Pleasant in a few weeks how do you think this looks so far? :rolleyes:

I get your angle now Jim 👍.

Very true, but I believe AAR aren't being particularly transparent with their preparations. From what I hear one of their machines won't be flying for a while after a little mishap.

LZ

AAR aren't transparent about much at all, certainly not employee T's & C's....:=
Sad that most of the new pilots at least are straight out of various european militaries with little knowledge of what the norms would be regarding pay, sickness, pension, bonding, tax, employer/employee liability etc. American company bringing their terms to a european government contract. :suspect:

Hedski

That wouldn't surprise me. My gut feeling always told me that the marriage of one of the lowest paying British heavy helicopter companies and US big corporation cost cutting practices, would never mean a particularly happy lot for the employees.

Any specific examples? How does pay compare to, say, Bristow or CHC in the UK? I hope nobody going to the Falklands has been conned into thinking they could get a tax credit from there. FI Gov has never to my knowledge taxed MOD ops, so, while we in O&G a few years ago were able to return home with a healthy tax credit to offset our home taxes, the AAR//BIH guys won't be in the same boat.

So pay would really have to be at, at least, Aberdeen level to make it worthwhile. All academic, maybe, as beggars can hardly be choosers in today's medium/heavy employment market.

T&Cs are nowhere near Aberdeen....

Are T&Cs in line with BIH Falklands MoD support service though? Aren't BIH sub contractors for the SAR operation?

Pay lower than Bristow/CHC/Bond topped up by allowances which can always be changed, company not able to clarify where tax would be paid if at all, minimal notice on their part to change terms, employee liable for costs if sick or missing flight from UK for whatever reason, 5 days full pay 5 half if sick then nothing, the list goes on. That last one is totally outwith european standards. Type rating bond for 3 years but no linear decrease monthly as would be the norm, employee liable for reimbursement if no longer employed regardless of reason (if you are no longer required do you still pay?).

I'm sure there's more but maybe someone else can chime in.

SAR picture
 

Thought some would appreciate this link:


http://fourfiveart.co.uk/gallery/current-work/
There is a SAR dinner on the 29th at which the artist will be present

Is the Falklands SAR 189 to the exact same Spec as the UK SAR 189?
I somehow doubt it, otherwise they should have the same problems as Bristow seems to have with Agusta.
Therefore the Blame goes to Agusta alone for not providing a fully Equiped UK SAR 189 on Time.

I believe they are the same spec, probably to keep things easy. Looking at the supplements list in the RFM there doesn't appear to be any new SAR kits.

I think the only real difference is what each company wants in the cabin.

Merry Christmas

Thanks and happy Christmas
 

Just an 'off thread' post to wish all the duty crews, engineers and support staff working over the festive period, whether SAR, or other emergency service, wherever you are in the world, a very happy Christmas and thank you for your continued professionalism and commitment to saving life.

SW

Indeed - probably quite busy given the awful weather.

Any SAR involvement in the horrendous flooding up North?

Crab,


A quick google should find pictures of CG in action over Calderdale

Apart from the 5000, did you get to keep the Smoking Glove too?