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-   -   UK SAR 2013 privatisation: the new thread (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/511282-uk-sar-2013-privatisation-new-thread.html)

MightyGem 26th Mar 2013 21:36


He was going on about how this is highly dangerous because the quality of training is going to plummet
Obviously been talking to Crab. :E :E

jimf671 26th Mar 2013 21:39


See the BBC is changing it's tune.

Bristow is now an "Aberdeen based company"

That's an improvement but they have also said ARMY and navy helicopters have been doing the job. :yuk:


I think their latest expert is a Buccaneer pilot. Talk of aeroplanes doing the job. :eek:

Macaco Norte 26th Mar 2013 21:48

Just found these on the Company website:


SAR CO-PILOT- BRI00228

Description

Having been successfully awarded UK SAR, we will be seeking to fill positions for the contract.

If you are interested in working with us please submit your application online.


Qualifications

Must have an EASA/CAA CPL(H) or equivalent with twin IR.

Bristow require SAR Co-pilots with previous experience of;

· Total flight time of one thousand (1,000) hours on aircraft of which 500 hours on helicopters;
· Successful completion of the appropriate company approved training course
· All SAR Co-pilots must be instrument rated.
· No criminal record, safe flying record and the right to reside and work in the UK.
Job: Pilots
Primary Location: Europe, Middle East-United Kingdom
Schedule: Full-time
Number of Openings: 50
Job Posting: Mar 26, 2013, 11:42:01 AM
Unposting Date: Ongoing


SAR COMMANDER- EBU00407

Description

Having been successfully awarded UK SAR, we will be seeking to fill positions for the contract.

If you are interested in working with us please submit your application online.


Qualifications

Must have an EASA/CAA ATPL(H) or equivalent with twin IR

Bristow require SAR Aircraft Commanders with previous experience of;

· Two thousand five hundred (2,500) hours as Pilot-In-Command (PIC) of aircraft of which one
thousand (1,000) hours is as PIC on helicopters.
· At least one thousand (1000) flying hours in multi-engine helicopters each.
· At least two hundred and fifty (250) hours on type except where previous glass cockpit experience can be demonstrated in which case this requirement may be reduced but will never be below one hundred (100) flying hours on type.
· At least five hundred (500) flying hours previous military/civilian SAR helicopters experience.
· Successful completion of the appropriate company approved training course.
· All Aircraft commanders must be instrument rated.
· No criminal record, safe flying record and the right to reside and work in the UK.
Job: Pilots
Primary Location: Europe, Middle East-United Kingdom
Schedule: Full-time
Number of Openings: 50
Job Posting: Mar 26, 2013, 10:58:00 AM
Unposting Date: Ongoing

jimf671 26th Mar 2013 23:06


It’s been a bit quiet from Crab so far today. Perhaps he is busy collating his medals and news paper cuttings and writing a CV
Is he in the hanger, talking to the techies about house prices in St Athan?

Thomas coupling 26th Mar 2013 23:56

Jim, try NewQuay for Crab's CV.

How are the mil pilots going to get 250hrs required on type?

[email protected] 27th Mar 2013 07:23

Mostly skiing in France:ok:

We will see what Bristows have to say about hours on type (clearly mil pilots won't have any) once their roadshow comes round the SAR flights and people start applying through the managed transition process.

onesquaremetre 27th Mar 2013 07:35

The Aberdeen heritage matters little. In a land where the dollar is king and the dollar is increasingly hard to come by, any corporation run by oilmen, lawyers and number crunchers is only likely to be interested in one line. The bottom one. Can you really privatise a public service and not expect the profit motive to have an influence on what's output? :confused:

Lioncopter 27th Mar 2013 07:53

Crab it might also be worth seeing if your bosses are now willing to let the Balpa roadshow come round now... As recently they were not keen at all..... :)

jimf671 27th Mar 2013 09:03

The DfT spec for aircrew experience was unchanged across both the February and September versions, though I suppose the unpublished final ITT could have been different. The figures in those documents are similar to what's in the Bristow ad shown above but the type and SAR figures are higher in the ad. Then there is the term in the DfT spec for the Commander that requires 'on each type' which does not appear in the ad.


[See ITT (19 Sep), Schedule 2.1, Specification, Section 2.3.1.]

Daysleeper 27th Mar 2013 09:23

What is a

safe flying record
as required in the advert?

I keep my logbook in a fireproof steel box with a lock on it...:hmm:

Macaco Norte 27th Mar 2013 09:53

So what exactly are the current SAR crews getting from Bristow on transition?
I would immagine a CPL(H) will be required at their own time/expense but with regards to IR & type rating what has been agreed? I presume the usual requirents for interviews/Psychometric testing will be discarded.

jimf671 27th Mar 2013 10:43

There is a whole list of people I would like to still have hovering over me 3 years from now and I hope no unreasonable obstacles will be placed in their way.

Fareastdriver 27th Mar 2013 11:47

If anybody thinks they are going to walk into Bristow as an aircraft commander they are going to be disappointed. With loads of SAR hours they will do your converstion and stick you in the left hand seat until you have the necessary hours on type. Remember there are are already qualified and experienced captains who are at present working for CHC and they will just change over companies. There are also type captains in the company with military and civil SAR experience who would be at the top of the list to go from offshore support to SAR if they put their names down.

Don't pack in you day job until you know you have a better job to go to.

jimf671 27th Mar 2013 12:01

Of course, they only have three bases to roll-out with a current type.

Prsesumably, the glass cockpit clause kicks in for the rest. Not much help for SK drivers.

ericferret 27th Mar 2013 12:50

I'm a little confused by the suggestion that military pilots are just going to move over to Bristow. I thought they all had contracts with H.M the Queen and they will just be posted to suitable new jobs unless they are declared redundant. Having spent a small fortune training these guys why would they be released? There must be through put in SH and surely these pilots (particularly the younger pilots) will become part of the pool for that thereby cutting the cost of recruiting and training ?

stilllearning 27th Mar 2013 13:05

sorry about my lack of knowledge. Then Bond is not in the game??? didn't get any piece of the cake???:confused:

leopold bloom 27th Mar 2013 13:17

ARCC
 
Anyone know what the future holds for ARCC?:confused:

Genie the Greenie 27th Mar 2013 13:19

100 pilots, 100 rear crew and 50 engineers!! these are not the standard oil & gas roundabout people who move around with contract changes, these are new positions. How much money will the oil compnaies throw at the operators to retain the service offshore with qualified staff? If that happens where are these drivers and mechs coming from for 2015??:confused:

snakepit 27th Mar 2013 13:22

The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
 
Jim the S92A is glass cockpit too.
Stilllearning
Learn quicker or read the thread

Happy days :-)

snakepit 27th Mar 2013 13:31

The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H
 
Oh go on Stilllearning I will help you
Lot 1 5 bases of heavies (S92A)
Lot 2 5 bases of mediums (AW189)
Lot 3 all ten bases

Bristow won Lot 3
Simples?

ropedope 27th Mar 2013 13:35

The future of UK SAR post SAR(H)
 
I believe we now all know the future of UK SAR post SAR-H. So can we now close this thread. Possibly open one on where do I send my CV if I have p'@@ed people off over the last few years on this boring thread.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

jonnyloove 27th Mar 2013 13:42

Posts
 
I wonder out the advertised posts i.e. 50 X Winchmen 50 X Winch ops how many of the post will go to the guys and girls currently serving in UK Military SAR..?

Thanks all.

stilllearning 27th Mar 2013 14:56

thanks snakepit. That makes it clear. Have a nice day ...:D

Bap70 27th Mar 2013 14:59

Bristow SAR
 
Hi All,
Does anyone know what type of roster/shift pattern the current UK Civvy SAR
units work, or what pattern Bristow are likely to use??

jimf671 27th Mar 2013 15:42


I believe we now all know the future of UK SAR post SAR-H.
I don't think so.

The future is not clear until we work out a way of helping the customer's agent to understand 70% of the task they will be 'supervising' under their brand.

Rumour_Monger 27th Mar 2013 15:44

As an outsider can I put me two penny's worth in here, the MoD are feeding a line talking about a managed transition and the availability of SAR crews to transition over to Bristow`s, but reading between the lines I do not think it will be as straight forward, obviously the spec are from the DfT tender docs, but do they reflect the introduction of a new helicopter, The S-92 has been around for a while but with the AW 189 which is a new type.

Bristow`s specs are calling for "At least two hundred and fifty (250) hours on type except where previous glass cockpit experience can be demonstrated in which case this requirement may be reduced but will never be below one hundred (100) flying hours on type." isn`t this going to be something hard to achieve?
·

Thomas coupling 27th Mar 2013 16:32

There are still some stupid questions filtering thru, mainly because people can't be bothered to read thru this "boring" thread. I am guilty of that sometimes too:ugh:. So I will 'update' those latecomers and relieve them of the pain of reading so much stuff:

Bond got nought/nada/nuffink.
The ARCC decision is on hold due to the sensitivities surrounding a free Scotland and what might happen after the referendum. Expect to hear nothing until next year. My "personal" take on it:
IF Scotland remains part of Britain, then the ARCC will civilianise and move to Fareham where the MCA lives. MRS won't be far behind.

BALPA on MoD real estate..don't make me laugh. Why would the government allow a bunch of unionists onto mil territory to muddy the already sensitive waters? BALPA - The BA bit stands for British Airways...outside of this they are a waste of your monthly outgoings!:E

Ericferret/Genie the Greenie: You are not serious are you?? What do you think all these months of negotiations have been all about between the MoD and the tender companies? Where do you think Bristow is going to get its manpower if NOT from the mil??? Do you honestly think there are 200 aircrew sitting at home in civvy street waiting for the advert to come out? Of course the majority of ex mil SAR personel will transfer across to the new job (provided they have the relevant quals) and then Bristows will 'top up' with others from within their fraternity or from outsiders like CHC. Common sense appears to have krept in it seems!!! The whole "Managed Transition" process is designed around it.
A reminder too that the mil want rid of mil SAR. They want to reduce their troop numbers as per SDSR. Don't you remember?

And finally - any takers on what will happen to the Falklands. Perhaps the gov will hand it over to the Argentinian Navy:eek::eek:

ropedope 27th Mar 2013 17:59

The future is not clear until we work out a way of helping the customer's agent to understand 70% of the task they will be 'supervising' under their brand.
Jim,




Who are "WE" to be helping someone who has had a five year break in delivering part of the UK SAR for the last thirty years. If you believe they don't understand 70% of the task then WE are all up that creek without the paddle.

jimf671 27th Mar 2013 18:29

I am hoping that most of us here want this to work and work well. Those are the we.

The 70% is the typical level of Land SAR tasking that the MCA wants to believe will somehow go away. Bristow properly understand this stuff.

In the 2001 Provision and Coverage Report there was criticism of record-keeping because neither the MCA nor MoD-DASA reporting gave a full and satisfactory account of the SAR task in the UK.

The MCA did not differentiate between land, coastal and maritime. Why should they? Well, because different bodies have statutory responsibility for land and maritime, with coastal always being a bit of a fudge.

MoD-DASA reported as though the UK, Cyprus and the Falklands were all the same country. Not clever.

That prevents the data being properly compared and prevents it being merged to produce a complete picture of the UK Aero SAR workload.

When the update report was published in 2006, nothing had changed, and again there was criticism in the report.

When I last checked, nothing had changed.

This stuff has been sitting there on the MoD and MCA websites. Are they not embarrassed? Are they too thick to understand?

Hopefully, Bristow will say to the Coastguard, 'We can take care of that' and by 2017/18 we will actually know what we are paying for.

ropedope 27th Mar 2013 18:37

Thank you Jim, I have been enlightened, and it was a pleasurable experience. By which I mean eloquent and no bitchiness. Well done.:D:D

Lioncopter 27th Mar 2013 19:04

I think if you ask a few of the people on the civil SAR bases if Balpa muddy the waters you might get a slightly different take ;)

sightlesseyes 27th Mar 2013 20:01

TC
I think they'd easily get 100 winchmen (not winchwomen?) from current NHS paramedics, it's the 3 months experience in SAR that will be a stumbling block for them meaning that only current rear crew will be qualified to apply.

Surely at some point they will have to recruit ab-initios or their pool of skills will simply dry up?

jimf671 27th Mar 2013 20:14


Surely at some point they will have to recruit ab-initios or their pool of skills will simply dry up?
That's when this gets really interesting.

Macaco Norte 27th Mar 2013 21:48

I suppose once Bristow have redistrbuted its experienced SAR crews from their current bases to more favourable locations in the south, Mil SAR crews, once qualified, will have the pick of the rest, ie. Stornaway, Sumburgh, Inverness, Prestwick & maybe even Humberside.

TorqueOfTheDevil 27th Mar 2013 23:29


I guess the RAF always had a pool of experienced personnel to draw upon to fill their jobs. By this I mean RAF crews were born “ready qualified”

Everyone has to start somewhere otherwise the world would stop. Oh sorry I forgot – the world has stopped as far as old guard is concerned :ugh:
Oh dear. The point is that RAF rearcrew doing their first shift on a SAR flight will have had a year of dedicated SAR training at Valley (SARTU long course then Sea King OCU). This is on top of basic crewman training and most will also have done tours on SH. As a result, even those who are true ab initio have acquitted themselves extremely well in tricky SAROps in their first weeks and months on shift.

Could someone provide an idea of the proportion of civ rearcrew who have no previous mil experience, and what route those individuals took to get onto a civ SAR flight? I don't recall this being mentioned on here previously but I admit I haven't checked all 1400 posts...

Senior Pilot 27th Mar 2013 23:41

I've split the threads so that all discussion on this new thread relates to UK SAR from the award of the contract to Bristow. Previous discussion is still here for reference.

Let's not start the hamster wheel of previous discussions: any such posts will be moved over to the old thread, no need for them here :ok:

jimf671 28th Mar 2013 00:11


I suppose once Bristow have redistrbuted its experienced SAR crews from their current bases to more favourable locations in the south, Mil SAR crews, once qualified, will have the pick of the rest, ie. Stornaway, Sumburgh, Inverness, Prestwick & maybe even Humberside.
You're probably right, if you love posing.

If you love flying, I expect 189 out of Inverness is where it will be at.

farsouth 28th Mar 2013 00:16


once Bristow have redistrbuted its experienced SAR crews from their current bases to more favourable locations in the south
Most of the Bristow crews I knew in Sumburgh and Stornoway were there because they wanted to be - not everyone thinks the South of England is the garden of Eden...........

Bounce Bounce 28th Mar 2013 01:39


Oh dear. The point is that RAF rearcrew doing their first shift on a SAR flight will have had a year of dedicated SAR training at Valley (SARTU long course then Sea King OCU). This is on top of basic crewman training and most will also have done tours on SH. As a result, even those who are true ab initio have acquitted themselves extremely well in tricky SAROps in their first weeks and months on shift.

Could someone provide an idea of the proportion of civ rearcrew who have no previous mil experience, and what route those individuals took to get onto a civ SAR flight? I don't recall this being mentioned on here previously but I admit I haven't checked all 1400 posts...
Open your eyes!!!!!!!!!!

heli1 28th Mar 2013 07:46

Just picking up the earlier post from Rumourmonger It would seem AW139 experience will count for the big brother 189. AW make much of the commonality between the two types and CHC already have SAR crews able to transfer . Bristow is also flying AW139s and so s SARTU .


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