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According to the ADAC website (see ADAC-Hubschrauber-Flotte), the ADAC fleet consists of 21 EC-135s.
I however would tend to agree with the numbers that "skadi" gave above, i.e. 3 T1, 6 P1 and 15 P2. Now it should be noted that one of the mentioned 15 EC-135 P2s (D-HDCL) belongs to a sister company of the ADAC, called Elbe Helicopter and is based in Bautzen as a backup machine for Elbe Helicopter's BK-117. |
Is ADAC still using the Bo105s for HEMS? Is there PC1(Performance Class 1) performance in the 105?
(PS. Sorry for my question not related directly to the topic) |
I know that they still use a BO-105 on a full-time basis as "Christoph 33" in Senftenberg. Other than that, the one or two remaining BO-105s in the ADAC fleet serve more as backup machines.
The BMI (Bundesinnenministerium) and the DRF still have quite a number of BO-105s in use as HEMS machines (see EMS Helicopters in Germany). In general though, the BO-105 is slowly but surely being phased out, due to the more stringent JAR-OPS 3 requirements, which will be implemented in Germany by the end of 2009. |
(Message deleted as it didn't fit in with this no-notice change to another thread)
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Oi, keep me out of this:suspect: ;)
I was going to delete this message due to the deleted message above. Then I decided to delete the idea I had to delete the message and leave it in! Anyway, here it is (or, there it was!) |
As was mentioned in a similar thread about the EC-135 not too long ago (see
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ighlight=ec135), the ADAC Luftrettung GmbH in Germany has a mixed fleet of EC-135Ts and EC-135Ps. Maybe they or possibly Air Lloyd Luftfahrt Technik GmbH, who do most of the maintenance work for the ADAC helicopters, could give you some comparison information on what the pros and cons of the two different engine types are. |
German Army Air Corps School in Bückeburg clocks up 30,000 training hours on the EC135 Marignane/Bückeburg, September 8, 2006 The German Army’s EC135 training helicopter fleet at the German Army Air Corps School in Bückeburg reached the 30,000-hour mark at the end of August 2006. The German Army has been operating 14 EC135 state-of-the-art training helicopters since 2000 and relies on a customer maintenance and service contract with Eurocopter Deutschland GmbH to ensure smooth operation. These helicopters are used for advanced flight training for all parts of the German military. Between six and eight courses for budding pilots in the German Army, Air Force and Navy take place in Bückeburg each year. After completing their initial training in a BO105, the trainee pilots then learn to fly in the most demanding conditions including day and night flight, low-level flight, flying in mountainous regions and under IFR flight conditions. The training the pilots receive using state-of-the-art flight controls and cockpit systems architecture equips them with the skills they subsequently apply when flying the CH53G, UH- 1D, MK41, MK88 helicopters as well as the newest weapons systems, the NH90 and Tiger helicopters. The innovative training concept relies, not least due to capacity and cost constraints, on high-tech EC135 simulators as well as the EC135 itself, with pilots gaining up to 60% of the required flying time in the Bückeburg simulator center. These simulators are also operated under a cooperative agreement. With this training concept, Eurocopter is the first full system support provider in the history of the German Army. This maintenance and support concept offers a combination of a flexible personnel structure, high availability and reduced operating costs, which allow us to react to changes in the customer’s training mission requirements rapidly and reliably. This means that Eurocopter provides full support around the clock for 14 helicopters –including pre-flight checks, refueling, debriefing and all scheduled maintenance, repairs and the full range of support for training flights, such as mountain flight training in Austria and France. The back-to-base support for the helicopters is provided at Eurocopter’s maintenance center in Kassel-Calden, which is distinguished by its wealth of experience in providing maintenance support to international military and civil aviation organizations. "According to our contract, we always have 12 helicopters ready to fly during the day and six at night. This allows us to operate a two-shift system with 13 highly qualified staff, which reliably provides the army with between 5,500 and 6,000 flying hours per year at present", says Ralph Kohlstädt, who is the Maintenance Manager responsible for the Eurocopter Line Station in Bückeburg, about the service provided by the Eurocopter team. "As customers, we are able to concentrate on our core business and expertise, of giving optimum flight training to young pilots, working in a concentrated and cost-effective way by leaving the job of ensuring that our EC135 training fleet is always ready to fly to Eurocopter", explains Lieutenant Colonel Runge, Flight Director at the Army Air Corps School, about the benefits of the Public Private Partnership between the army and the helicopter manufacturer. |
EC135 Main Transmission issues
Have heard a few tales around of EC135 Main Transmission issues :-
Blocked and bypassed filters Strange grainy black material in the filter Water ingress Anybody out there had any of these problems - please feel free to post! Would like to know so I can avoid them! |
Nothing heard here.
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EC 135 2910 MTOW Retrofit
SB EC135-71-033 Retrofit to EC135 T2+ or P2+
Prerequisites - Titanium torque struts L623M1003 109 Mast with Euro 4 or 5 MMI (i.e. the painted one with integral scissor lugs) MGB S/N 0301 or higher Transmax Lube Oil in MGB Modified X-Y fittings ( if AC SN higher than 445 you already have them) Must have ADC Must have correct FADEC Software version - if you already have CAT A your OK Various other smaller mods are required depending on your aircraft and mod status - the ones above are the big ones. The VEMD and CAD software is changed and the CAT A switch is now called HIGH NR. Life limits are reduced on a range of components - Mast now lifed etc. Power increase - AEO MCP - no change AEO TOP - now 2 x 78 was 75 AEO Transient - now 2 x 82 was 80 OEI MCP - now 1 x 89.5 was 86 HIGH NR - Previously CAT A was selected ON below 55 KIAS. With HIGH NR system it is virtually the same except when selected, the data from the ADC will select HIGH NR OFF above 55 KIAS. :D |
EC135 high skid
How is the high skid variant of EC135P/T2 protected against wire strike? The low skid has the protection, as i saw it on OAMTC of austria, but how can the high skid variant have the protection mounted?
Are there only two skid heights or is there more? BTW: The helicopter should be camera and nightsun equiped. Thak you for your time! |
EC135 Wire Strike Protection
To my knowledge, none of the UK McAlpines equipped, high skid, police role 135s (I've flown about half of them) have any wire strike protection. However, my 6 year old son has a Macs poster on his bedroom wall that shows line drawings of low and high skid 135s fitted with wire cutters above and below the cockpit, and the high skid variant had what appear to be extensions on the front of the skids - presumably to deflect wires beneath the aircraft.
Just to give a balanced view: the Police MD902 that I currently fly also has no wire strike protection - although it too could be fitted. I'm sure McAlpines at Oxford would be able to give you a definitive answer for the 135. QOS |
http://eu.airliners.net/photos/middle/4/3/1/0369134.jpg
Thanks for replying! I saw this photo, it has high skid, and the wire protection mounted. It seems to me that low and high skid configuration have no difference in wire cutters. I can't figure out if these skid wire deflectors allow the camera and night sun to be mounted. |
We are currently in the process of getting a similar step mount faa stc'd for both the 135 and 145. when no cameras or searchlights are installed, the skid tube wire strike guards are installed, with the camera or searchlight installed, they are removed
dr |
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Thank you all for the information. BGS or Bundes Polizei (now) are our example, but i couldn't find any photos of combined cutters and equipment, so i guess its either one or the other. We will have to deal with that.
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Originally Posted by Phoinix
(Post 2980593)
Thank you all for the information. BGS or Bundes Polizei (now) are our example, but i couldn't find any photos of combined cutters and equipment, so i guess its either one or the other. We will have to deal with that.
here's a Photo of a EC 135 on High Skids with WSPS , but just the upper part of it. http://www.copterweb.de/ Thats one of the first new EMS-Helicopters flown by the Bundespolizei skadi |
sirs: feel free to send PM, have lots of jpegs of our mounts which have hardpoints forward and rear, also can carry a variety of cameras (FSI,Wescam, Cineflex) as well.
thanks dr |
EC135 P2+ vs. P2i
I noticed there are many versions out there, but i couldn't find the differences. For example, what it the difference between P2+ and P2i? I heard some small talk about P2i being upgraded P2+ from P2. Is that correct?
Thank you for any answers that would clear this out for me. |
I think that the P2i and the P2+ are the same. The correct name being the P2+
The main difference is an increase in MAUM from 2835kg to 2910kg. Also the CAT A (now called High NR) facility is partially automated, that is to say that with the High NR mode on, the NR will decrease when airspeed passes 55Kt on the way up and increase when the airspeed passes 55-50Kt on the way down (up and down in this context meaning accelleration rather than climb!) |
P2i - Helicopter delivered new that way.
P2+ - Eligible aircraft that has been retrofitted via SB EC135-71-033 Effectively they are the same. Same same - T Models. Have a P2 that is eligible and the price of the SB is in line with marketing policy and not costs! All things considered, to us it looks like Euro 150K for a VEMD software upgrade!! I am sure someone has thought about it and you have to consider what the increase is worth to you as a performance upgrade and the increase in value of the aircraft both to the owner and in the market. Be aware of "availability" of the SB. This SB does make the older aircraft compete against new deliveries! |
Not only software upgrade also new MRGB oil and straps. And it's the straps which makes it expensive so I am told. I stand to be corrected.
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The upgraded version and the new option coming off the production line will be called the Ec135T2i/P2i.
MGB oil changed from the synthetic one currently in use, to the old mineral oil which has proven more effective. Compulsory X-Y bracket change to titanium. New Fadec software (IEMD). Mod to the CAT A setup (adjusting Nr by 3% for take off and landing at 55kts. ECD say its to do with noise abatement (thus keeping their title as the quietest light twin in the world) but its actually to give the revs a kick up the backside to lift a greater APS off the deck.:E Other husbandry changes. This gives you an additional 75Kg (2835 - 2910Kg).Payload (or 20 mins endurance). Is it worth £50,000 - £100,000, depending on mod state)??? What bugs me is that the competition have wrung the Light twin (Jar 27) MAUM to the limit. 109S and 429 are up at 3175Kg and even the 902 has crept up to 6500lb (atleast for everyone else in the world except the UK:{). Why haven't ECD stolen the show and done the same? They would blow the competition out of the water if they did this. Perhaps they are going to milk the customer all the way to the limit over the next 5 yrs by charging for it:= |
The upgraded version and the new option coming off the production line will be called the Ec135T2i/P2i. .......cos I'll have to get them to change our Flight Manual!:p |
The change in the MRGB oil is to Castrol Transmax Z Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid. There is also an increase in the quantity by changing the level indicator on the sight glass. (10 minute job). Also the oil needs to be flushed with 2 changes of the new oil at ~10 and ~ 50 hours after the change. Note: You can do this mod to MOST MRGB's in service. Always thought Jet II was average as a gearbox oil anyway.
Also included is some reduction in finite lives of some components. These are not drastic changes. When the 135 emerged it was already a "stretched" version of the 108 and I doubt there is much left in it. They cant make enough of them at the moment so why bother to change the formula? They already outsell the 429 109S and 902 combined!! production is around ~ 60 - 70 per year! Now a little birdie did tell me that IF they got the US military contract for the 145 there would be some tin in the pot for more development. Imagine a 145 with 5 blades!! No need it's already flying. With 5 blades you don't need ARIS mounts - No 4P vibes. The addition of the 5th blade is offset by the removal of the ARIS mounts. http://www.eurocopter.com/publicatio...EN&news_id=390 Main parts of the SB here for those that don't have access and apologies for the long post. Keep in mind that there may be "availability" issues. SERVICE BULLETIN EC135 EC135-71-033 PAGE 1 of 25 2006-10-30 REVISION 01, 2007-01-23 Power Plant – Version EC135 T2 and EC135 P2 – Retrofit to Version EC135 T2+ and EC135 P2+ 1. Planning Information A. Effectivity (1) Helicopters affected: EC135 T2 and EC135 P2. (2) Components affected: CAD (Cockpit Advisory Display): Version 2002 NVG and Non VNG or Version 2003 NVG and Non VNG VEMD (Vehicle Engine Management Display): Version 2002 NVG and Non NVG or Version 2003 NVG and Non NVG Rotor hub–shaft, preassy L623M1003 109 Rotor mast hub L623M1003 209 Rotor hub–shaft assy L623M1006 102 Main transmission 4649 010 006 or 4649 010 008 Forked lever, preassembled L671M3012 101 Forked lever L671M3004 205 Hinged support, preassembled L671M7003 103 Hinged support L671M7003 208 Placard 2835 kg L110M1814 205 or L110M1814 206 Placard VNE L110M1814 207 or L110M1814 208 (3) Spare parts affected: Not applicable. B. Concurrent Requirements After accomplishment of the measures given in this Service Bulletin, the pilots must be informed on its content and their attention must be drawn to the fact that they must comply with flight manual EC135 T2+ or EC135 P2+. The subsequently given components are required for accomplishment of this Service Bulletin. If the components are not already installed, they must be retrofitted with accomplishment of this Service Bulletin: – Torque strut assy (titanium) with P/N L633M1001 104 or L633M1001 105. – Rotor hub–shaft (reinforced) L623M1003 109 with Euro 4 or Euro 5 mast moment system. – Main transmission with S/N 0301 or higher. – Lubricating oil Transmax Z for the main transmission, see SB EC135-63-011. – XY–fitting L533M2001103 and L533M2002103, see SB EC135-53-016. – On helicopters without FCDS and without Air Data Computer the ADC2 must be retrofitted, see SB EC135-34-018. The following Service Bulletins must be accomplished with accomplishment of this Service Bulletin only when they are effective for the helicopter to be retrofitted and have not already been accomplished: – On helicopters with Miscellaneous Flight Data Acquisistion Unit MFDAU: SB EC135-31-026. – On helicopters with AFCS up to S/N 0217: SB EC135-22-005 for retrofit of the improved Automatic Flight Control System (AFCS). – On helicopters with FCDS up to S/N 0217: ASB EC135-31A-002 for replacement of the PDF and / or ND. – On EC135 T2 up to S/N 0285: ASB EC135-77A-002 for replacement of the triple RPM indicator. – On helicopters up to S/N 0325 with CPDS before version 2003: SB EC135-31-009 for modification of the wiring routed to the CPDS. – On helicopters EC135 T2: Mandatory–SB 319 73 2090 by Turbomeca ”Electronic Engine Control Unit (EECU) with version 6 software – Incorporation of TU90C”. C. Reason With this Service Bulletin, ECD offers the retrofit of EC135 T2 to version EC135 T2+ and of EC135 P2 to EC135 P2+ . Thus, the maximum permissible gross mass (MTOW) increases from 2835 kg to 2910 kg. The “Hot+High” performance of the helicopter is improved i.a.w. the flight manual. The torque ratings increase as follows: – AEO TOP from 2 x 75% to 2 x 78%. – AEO Transient from 2 x 80% to 2 x 82%. – OEI MCP from 1 x 86% to 1 x 89.5% D. Description Replace VEMD (Vehicle and Engine Management Display) and CAD (Caution and Advisory Display). Retrofit CAT A switch to High NR System. Reidentify components. Have new FADEC software installed. Replace placards. E. Compliance Compliance with this Service Bulletin is optional. F. Approval The information or instructions contained in this document refer to change no. 647 and 664. The technical content of this document is approved under the authority of DOA No. EASA.21J.034. Master Servicing Manual (MSM) EC135 Page 628 2006.12.04 05-62-00, 6-3 F. (10) Perform HIGH NR mode check (only valid for engine type T2+): Rated Value Actual Value n Stabilized hover flight – perform HIGH NR switch in instrument panel – press Increase of NRo – record from VEMD (SYSTEM STATUS) 103.5 % $ 0.2 % HIGH NR switch in instrument panel – ON indicator illuminates Advisory indication HIGH NR – check (if installed) Flight condition: Level flight – perform Airspeed – increase slowly to at least 60 KIAS At 55 KIAS: Decrease of NRo – record from VEMD (SYSTEM STATUS) 100.0 % $0.2 % Advisory indication HIGH NR – check off (if installed) Airspeed – decrease slowly to at least 40 KIAS At 50KIAS: Increase of NRo – record from VEMD (SYSTEM STATUS) 103.5 % $ 0.2 % Advisory indication HIGH NR – check (if installed) Stabilized hover flight – perform HIGH NR switch in instrument panel – press HIGH NR switch in instrument panel – ON indicator extinguished Advisory indication HIGH NR – check off (if installed) Functional Check Flight EC135 T2 / T2+ (CPDS) – Test Report Form 603 (12 of 31) Master Servicing Manual (MSM) EC135 Page 624 2006.12.04 05-62-00, 6-4 F. (9) Perform HIGH NR mode check (only valid for engine type P2+): Rated Value Actual Value n Stabilized hover flight – perform HIGH NR switch in instrument panel – press Increase of NRo – record from VEMD (SYSTEM STATUS) 103.15 % $ 0.35 % HIGH NR switch in instrument panel – ON indicator illuminates Advisory indication HIGH NR – check (if installed) Flight condition: Level flight – perform Airspeed – increase slowly to at least 60 KIAS At 55 KIAS: Decrease of NRo – record from VEMD (SYSTEM STATUS) 100.2 % $0.2 % Advisory indication HIGH NR – check Airspeed – decrease slowly to at least 40 KIAS At 50KIAS: Increase of NRo – record from VEMD (SYSTEM STATUS) 103.15 % $ 0.35 % Advisory indication HIGH NR – check (if installed) Stabilized hover flight – perform HIGH NR switch in instrument panel – press HIGH NR switch in instrument panel – ON indicator extinguished Advisory indication HIGH NR – check off (if installed) Functional Check Flight EC135 P2 / P2+ (CPDS) – Test Report Form 603 (10 of 25) |
A big thank you to all for your replys.
That's odd. We are buying a brand new EC 135, s/n 600, and from what i was told it's a +. The type rating instructors always talked about the + version and thus i thought i is the upgraded version. |
Andy: the marketing literature and advertising is using the "i" logo. The FLM is using the "+". Straight from the engineers at ECD this morning:)
Apologies it is synthetic MGB oil even though they told the PEUG it was old fashioned mineral (checked my notes). |
EC135 P2+ starter limitations
The flight manual states: "When starting engines, the starter energize time is the time which elapses between initiation of the starter and ignition in the turbine."
What is ignition in the turbine suppose to be? We have 40Ah battery installed so the FM limitation is 15 seconds starter energize time. Our EC takes 25 seconds from switching on ENG switch until it reaches 50% N1, when the starter switches to generator mode. |
What is ignition in the turbine suppose to be? thats when the fuel starts burning -> TOT rising. You can also hear it. skadi |
Thank you for clearing that out :ok:
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Is'nt the 902 the Notar machine. If it is I belive the London air ambulance were trying soem time back to get rid of theirs. I heard a whisper that its no comparison to their previous dauphin in terms of reliability??
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London Air Ambulance were trying to get rid of their 902 Notar and at that time it had its issues but they did not have the money to parachute out. Now things are far better [but not quite as perfect as some would like us to believe]. The ancient Dauphin they had, G-HEMS, is back in the UK serving another HEMS service.
But this is an EC135 thread that has been asleep for months ... did you get lost Bolkow? |
DOC's for an EC135T2
Does anybody know where I might source information on the direct operating costs for an EC135?
My gratitude in anticipation. |
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Can someone please enlighten me on this service bulletin EC135-34-023.
I don't completely understand eurocopters description of the problem: "When performing certain flight maneuvers a discrepancy of the vertical display between system I and system II can occur." Vertical display is suppose to be ... (fill in the blank). Replacing AHRU should correct the problem software wise. |
Pitch and Roll being movement relative to the vertical axis. Sound familiar?
What does the SB mean? The original software in the AHRU was crap. You can change it if you have problems - at your expense of course. Don't blame us we told you so and admit no liability. Thinly veiled admission of a c**k-up. Replace AHRU = EUR 65,000.00 EACH!! You can in certain conditions (heat, turbulence, rough touchdown) upset the crosstalk from SYS I and SYS II. You should get a "GYRO" caption and you will lose the AFCS. Reverts to analogue SAS. A/P Upper modes not available. Das ist nicht fertig! Ask your engineer why the SEMA attachment screws are not safe locked on a 135 yet the same item on a 155 is !!!!! Granted they will never fall out, (although you can fit screws that are too long - see SB) it still doesn't comply with type certification requirements. Each removable bolt, screw, nut, pin, or other fastener whose loss could jeopardize the safe operation of the rotorcraft must incorporate two separate locking devices. The fastener and its locking devices may not be adversely affected by the environmental conditions associated with the particular installation. |
Right,... i understand now, thank you.
That vertical display got me wondering. We didn't experience those kind of problems yet, we only get a lot of CPDS FAIL in flight report display and other usual "windows" kind of errors, like att. trim caution at random. One more question while we are at it. We have some airspeed discrepancy. Back up airspeed indicator is showing the same values as CPLT's readings however, PLT's reading is 5 to 10 kts lower than other two (10 kts at speeds lower than 50 kts). At what point will the discrepancy become evident (arrow marking) on PFD due to SYS I and SYS II indication differences? |
Phoinix,
Can't remember when the discrepancy warning will pop up. If it does and upsets things like the autopilot just switch to I or II ADC. If you physically swap ADC's is probably an easy way to troubleshoot things if you don't have pitot/static test gear close by. If the fault doesn't follow the ADC you have a leaky pitot, not as uncommon as you think on a 135! ;) |
Thanks for the info RVDT. A couple of more questions have popped up during this time:
EC135P2+ The shut down check list states: ENG I/II main switches - IDLE Clock - Start Why should i start the clock if there is no limitation regarding coolong down of the engines on IDLE. Or did i miss something regarding cooling down? I know the 10 seconds for FADEC off. In practice, how much time do you let your engines to cool? Other question; the FLM is very sparse on the count down timer explanation for AEO MCP. The FLM states: "For 5 min. limit, the counter is invisible." Training manual: Count down timer AEO above MCP (unclear about time limit and why does it state "above MCP". Is this the time limit for the MCP range or above?) 5' countdown timer Five seconds before the time limit is reached the red flashing box, the limit symbol and the counter appear. When the time limit is expired, the red box is fixed. What will the red box contain? "LIMIT"? Thank you for any answer! Regards, Jure |
Phoinix,
There is no cool down for sure on the P2. Cant comment on the P2+ but I would assume it is a typo. Contact your friendly ECD Tech Rep. The P2 actually has PW207 engines in it rebadged as 206B2 to ease type certification issues and largely avoiding lots of paperwork. This engine is quite different from a 206B internally. The P1 DOES have a cool down but of only 30 seconds. The reason you don't turn the FADEC off prematurely is that the EECU "writes" the last flights data to the DCU at or below a certain N1 speed. This data is then sent to the EECU on the next flight. Turning off the FADEC before the data was transferred created all sorts of corrupt data. Later EECU's write the data at a higher N1 speed to avoid this. The AEO MCP "limit" is invisible. Correct you will get a red "LIMIT" in a red box on the FLI. (This limit is for the MGB not the engines, but the engines record the data) For the OEI 30sec./2.0 min limit the counter IS visible and 5 seconds before the counter reaches zero a flashing red box appears around the word "LIMIT". When the countdown has expired, the red box is fixed and ENG EXCEED caution comes on. (this limit IS for the engines). Every time the engines are started the 30 sec limit is the default setting. If you press the TOPPING switch on the collective you can "Lock out" the 30 second OEI HI rating from being available and you will be only able to use the 2.0 min OEI limits. If you push the TOPPING switch again it will toggle back to OEI HI 30 sec. availability. The engine will show ENG EXCEED when you have only enough "life" left in the engine for one 30 sec or 2.0 min excursion. This is to allow for the fact you may need this power to land OEI. See RFM 2.12 Engine Transmission Power Limitations - ZF FS 108 RFM ~ 7.38 and 2.17 |
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