TCAS
Sheepskin seats in the front
Big, scalable moving map for finding those out of the way posh hotel helipads

135 needs
 

Chopper spotter, dolly, trolly or movable pad as the ground handling wheels were designed by the Germans to get back at the French for loosing WW2 (the big one) and the 135 is a real "pig dog" to move in and out of the hangar with literally any fuel on board. Oh, and maybe a pilot seat that goes up and down a little bit as after about 2 hours ones legs tend to go to sleep.

gmbH - you are right about the ground handling wheels. They are awful because they take all the shiny paint off, they're too heavy to handle and moving the heli on them is difficult. The G/H wheels of the A119/Bell are great.
We land on a platform on rails and pull/push with a little quad bike - works just fine except when it's icy which is not that often.

tigerfish
 

gmbh,
Ive said this before I know, but in relation to ground handling of the 135 you cant do better than to use a TLC helilift. All of the 16 UK police users of the 135 use them & as far as I know love em. I have no connection with the company but just love the bullet proof engineering of it.
check with any of the units.

VH,

Jammies for cuddling?

The TLC handling machine is the cat's meow....and some darn nice folks who make it too. Best ground handling machine I have ever seen.

Fascinating thread - amazed to read that people have problems with aft CofG! Our sort-of-police-role aircraft are restricted to something like an hour's fuel if the 2 heavy pilots are on shift - we'd do anything within reason to get the CofG back a bit. APFS is 1951kg for our heavier aircraft before role equipment is strapped-on.

Agree that air-con is a must, although the ones fitted to our (2) aircraft are often unserviceable at the end of a long supply chain. You may also find that the sand-filter is needed, although our engines have had significant erosion problems. Take a look at the performance penalties for both in Sect 9.2 first, though.

If you're getting Eurocopter's engineer to fit the sunshades in the cockpit, make sure you check the intercom leads BEFORE he leaves the site. Stanley knives can take a big bite out of those things; not very pleasant when you discover it after the man has gone back to Germany.

Our big ongoing difficulty is blade erosion - stay away from sandy landing areas, OK?!

...and finally, that TLC Helilift is one of the few pieces of kit which does everything you would want it to. The customers here have 3!

How about an onboard engineer so the pilot doesn't get oily hands and the all the beer gets drunk!!

Radio's which store some radio frequency's and then can be selecting by a switch on the cyclic.

Air con
VEMD where the scala only goes up to 13.5 which will be closest to you and is more pronounced, and anything below 5 is compressed that way you can judge better how much power you are pulling without getting a magnifying glass out.

Short Dash.

SASless;

I like my women in their stockings, my helicopter in its' jammies, and my sheep freshly shorn!!:E

VH

me!
 

your (new) co-pilot! ;)

Hi All,

Seems like the weight is bit of a problem for the EC135 and with an endurance of only 2h 20'! What about if you operate it(P2/T2) CAT A with lets say 4 persons on board, what kind of endurance do you get??

Oh, and the TLC Helilift has an adapter lead which can be used as ground power when someone leaves the aircraft battery on after a refuel too.......:E

thud and blunder: we are about to introduce our new step mount at HAI. you mentioned fwd c/g issues on your airframe. what is your specific equipment fit
- sx-16
- flir camera (type?)

thanks
dr

chopperdr,

SX16 is on nose-mount, ie forward of the panel where some aircraft have the landing light fitted (ours is moved to the skid crosstube, by the dead-weight PA speakers...). Field of travel limited to just 180 degrees in azimuth, pilot has no controller on the collective - not good.

The camera is the Wescam kit mentioned in the original Eurocopter book - I'm not at work so cannot provide the part number, but it's not the modern (MX15?) turret. Be warned that the weights and arms given for this kit in Sect 6 of the FLM are completely wrong. We wouldn't have been able to fly at all if the book figures (from memory, 207kgs for the entire system) had been correct. However, after reweighing and then getting the figures checked by a Eurocopter engineer we found that the system actually weighed 90.7 kgs. Big difference. However, the customers bought the old-fashioned console (CRT screen, processor, VHS(!) recorder all on a mount IN FRONT OF the rear seats). That's what throws our CofG way forward - make sure you shove all that stuff in the boot where it belongs and get an LCD instead of the heavy tube.

You'd get better info on how the kit should be fitted either from Bond in the UK or the BGS in Germany, who both put the nightsun on the left skid-front mount.

It is noteworthy that this thread has drifted from nose heavy to tail heavy and back again. And all eminating from the same question of what would you fit on a standard EC135 airframe.

All the variety of answers has tended to queer the pitch for the standard question of 'How does type X fly?' ... and underlines that there is no real answer without first clarifying the specification, equipment fit, role and required mission. All tempered with compromise. Yes, fly two pilot but do not forget to slide a few kg of lead down the tail boom.

That neither the 'standard' Eurocopter police fit [everything up front on mounting beams] and the McAlpine role pod solution actually represent a finite answer to the tail heavy bare airframe is noteworthy. The best place for everything might be on a centre line beam... but wait on... here come lateral CoG to mess up the sums!

It all points to a need to be an expert in weight and balance design BEFORE you sign off the final payment!

thud and blunder: our mount is very similar to original multipurpose step which has proved to be very popular. on our design we have:

- shortened the length of our tube from the front cross tube forward, to reduce bending moment
- put identical end bosses to receive our gen II dovetail at front and rear so that, landing lights/p.a. / downlink antenna etc can be mounted on the rear of the tube
- increased wall thickness of tube
- added more height to the fwd goose neck for additional ground clearance
- goose neck is mfg from solid billet aluminum and bolted together, no welds
- delron flat step is attached to top of tube to assist entry/exit

as for c/g of external role equipment, that part is out of our hands. we are always looking for suggestions and comments from experienced operators.
p.m. if you want to see some jpegs
thanks
dr

Captain Hollywood

Look in the brochures for yourself and pick out the nice things that you would like/need.

The one saving grace is that there are companies out there that make fantastic after market products (DART or Aeronautical Accessories). You would get much more bang for your buck if you steer away from Eurocopter products as they are very expensive.

You are on the Gold Coast?? Take a trip up to Archerfield and talk to the QLD Rescue guys.

Chopperdr,

Good for you - have re-read your first post as well, and now see your perspective. Sounds like you're making something genuinely useful. Sadly I have no say in what the customers here actually buy; I think it fair to say that efficiency is way down their list of purchase specifications...

Back to the original poster, I think Oogle has some of the best points made so far. Don't feel you have to buy from Eurocopter - some of the other "completions" people out there, many of whom actually listen to what customers really want, can do a very good deal. Personally I wouldn't have put the 135 as top of my list for VIP work - passenger comfort/vibration/endurance issues mainly - but if that's what you're working with then get onto some of those non-Eurocopter agents.

Appreciate all the info fellas. Oogles suggestion is exactly what I'm doing at the moment, just choosing all the toys I want! :ok:

Cheers,

CH :cool:

Thanks for all the suggestions but it looks like we're just getting another new EC130! Oh well, I'll just have to make do I s'pose! :ok:

Cheers,

CH :cool:

EC135 P2 CAT A Performance
 

Just interested to know what kind of CAT A Performance the EC135 P2 has. Anybody out there who can give me the maximum permissible weight for the following:

- CAT A Helipad Takeoff/Landing
- OAT +20 C
- Pressure Alt. 1000 feet

What is a typical Equipped Empty Weight (EEW) for a 135 in HEMS configuration?

Thanks in advance:cool:

My graph says you can achieve it at 2835kg

I would guess at about 2000kg equipped weight

:ok:

Isn't the EC135 Max. approved gross weight appr. 2850 kg???? Are you sure it will have CAT A approved Helipad performance at these conditions close to max. approved gross weight??:confused:

Vertolot

to be correct and to avoid misunderstandings, the two CAT A procedures are named "Clear Heliport" and "Elevated Heliport".
On "Elevated Heliports" in 1000ft the weight is 2835 up to 28°C.


If you talk about a typical configuration, used in the big EC 135 fleets in Germany, Austria, ... the EET is 1820-1880 kg. The weight of the EMS equipment (hardware) is nearly all the same. The differencies in weight between the producers are small. Therefore the EEW of your EC 135 depends more from the a/c weight. Buy air condition, floats, hoist, hooks, .... use old steel oxygen bottles instead of carbon or LOX... and the EEW is more than 2200kg.

The more than 50 EMS EC 135 in Germany and Austria are mostly only VFR day/night single pilot equipped without any other a/c optionals.

Tecpilot,

Thanks for your reply. I just have seen on some other Eurocopter FM's that they use the the worlds Clear Heliports and Helipads for CAT A operations, but the Elevated Heliport is probably the same as Helipad.

Thanks,

Only a question of the right charts in the FM EC 135. :)

The Cat A on BK 117 terms are "Clear Heliport" and "Elevated or Restricted Helipads". The BO 105 "Special Takeoff and Landing Operations" terms are the same like BK 117 plus a "Short Field" section.

Enhanced EC 135 EASA certified
 

To stay ahead of the competition, Eurocopter has certified an increased take-off weight of 2,910 kg (from formerly 2,835 kg). LBA/EASA certification was granted on February 21, 2006. Deliveries will start as of late September 2006. For customers operating the new variant, which is designated EC 135 T2i or P2i respectively, the benefits are evident: More payload, more performance, more range.

The increase of take-off weight is complemented by a reduction of empty weight to 1,455 kg, giving the EC135 now an exceptional empty weight ratio of 50 percent. Useful load is thereby increased by 80 kg which equals one passenger more, or more fuel allowing for 100 km more range, or 30 minutes more endurance. The weight of the EC 135’s IFR equipment was reduced by 10 kg. Therefore, the useful load for IFR-equipped aircraft is up by even 90 kg. Hot & High performance has also been improved, up to an additional 180 kg hover weight and up to an additional 2,000 ft. hover altitude. Retrofits will be available to customers presently operating the EC 135 T2 or P2.

ECD is continuously working on innovation and optimisation to keep the EC 135 family at the top of its class. The efforts during 2005 concentrated on the complete range of offshore equipment including corrosion protection (with a view to the aircraft’s growing success in the offshore market), increase of CAT A gross weight by 30 kg to 75 kg (depending on outside temperature), qualification of new FADEC software and many other features.

For those interested in a retrofit, this won't be available until an SB is written and approved which could be by year end.

EC135- PW or Turbomeca
 

If you had the choice of engines, which would you choose and why? The choice is the Turbomeca ARRIUS 2B2 or Pratt and Whitney 206B2 engines.

They are pretty close on TO power and the Pratt has more MCP, but there is much more to it than grunt.

Any experiences please?

P&W got the nod.
 

We looked closely at the EC 135. We came to the conclusion that in Asia the P&W was the way to go. I don’t think that a Turbomeca powered machine has been sold in this region yet. Even Eurocopter recommended P&W to us!

Quite a few operators actually choose depending on which service center is closest by or they have best experience with.

One advantage of the Turbomecas is, that You dont have to clean your tailboom so often, it seems they burn the fuel better than the Pratts

Thank you for your inputs. We note in Hong Kong that Turbomeca were quick off the mark with the marketing and had guys in town within weeks of the order. PW perhaps do not need the sale, it is such a small part of their operation.

I have seen on another thread ref the choice in the Squirrel, the Turbomeca units were criticised as being very expensive when they go wrong - especially to replace, whereas the Alison/RR units were much cheaper.

Anyone have any comparisons or stories about maintenance of the PW versus the Turbomeca?

Or any other facts, rumour or scuttlebut gratefully received.

They both do an admirable job, I'm sure. A couple of minor issues but nothing that stands out.
Consequently, by far the biggest decision maker has then got to be:

CUSTOMER CARE:hmm:

Logistics / turnround times/ etc far more important....

Turbomeca need clean de-ionised water for their engine washes and P&W just need tapwater, that is why one of the UK Police ASU's is opting for P&W on their new 135. So I am told.

Thanks for these. Brilliant, that would stangely make a big difference here as in a marine environment we shall need to wash daily. I'll chase it up.

The ADAC Luftrettung GmbH in Germany has a mixed fleet of EC-135T1s and EC-135P2s. Maybe they or possibly Air Lloyd Luftfahrt Technik GmbH, who do most of the maintenance work for the ADAC helicopters, could help you out in ascertaining the pros and cons of the two different engine types.

The TM requirement for daily rinsing specified a minimum standard for the water to be used. There are some places in the UK where the supplied tap water would have met that specification but it needed to be guaranteed, day in, day out. Using de-ionised, demineralized or distilled simply guarantees the quality. As several UK operators have discovered over the last few months, there's a lot more to water than you think!!

PM me if you need more.

Big Bucks Bernie,

Do you know how many 135T1 and 135P2 ADAC have in there fleet, are they all used for HEMS?

Vertolot

@vertolot
all ADAC Helicopters ( EC 135, EC 145, BK 117 and BO 105 ) are used for HEMS. The EC 135 fleet : 3 T1, 15 P2 and 6 P1.