Gazzoks man I won't have anything said against Lord Melchet.

His Lordship knows all he thinks he needs to know about SAR.

332M :cool:

Does he (Lord Melchet) still flog the L2 around at cruise tq + 5-10% while reading the paper?

Chopperman.

I've heard of a couple of crewmen that have had interviews with Bond. I've also heard an unconfirmed rumour that they are not taking crewmen over the age of 35. Anyone care to confirm/deny/enlighten on this?

Seems to have gone very quiet on Jigsaw.

Scuttlebutt in SAR world doesn't seem to know of any experienced SAR pilot being offered a job. In fact several experienced pilot's turned down.:confused:

Anybody know what is going on?

:O Looks like the Senior Pilot from Bond Air Services is joining BOH to run Jigsaw. Expect movement on this subject shortly

I believe that an ex-RAF SAR pilot has been given a contract, but no other details, plus I have also heard of one from CHC-Ireland.

Is the Bond Senior Pilot an ex-SAR man from years back?

Bond Air services senior pilot means SENIOR pilot, chief pilot, whatever you want to call him, if you know who he is, then you know his history, hadn't heard that he was heading it up, just making a move for his last few years.

Anybody heard anything as things seem to have ground to a halt since before Christmas!! Anybody been offered a job yet?

Anyone heard when the first SAR aircraft is due to arrive in ABZ?


Wiz:O

North Sea Jigsaw
 

Calli

You haven't just missed the boat, it's way over the horizon. The advert was in Oct 04 Flight Int mag, nothing like being on the ball eh!! ;)

They still haven't done the interviews as far as I know though, and they were supposed to have been completed by end of November. It's now the end of January!!

Rather you than me............... What happened to Mountainman ?

Mountainman hasn't moved, still in the same position (just like a mountain really :D)

jigsaw recruiting
 

Jigsaw is very much alive and kicking.They have recruited all thier captains and they are in country converting to type. On the subject of rearcrew they have just completed interviews for the training team and have selected a guy called ashley"rob" roy an ex RN SAR crewman from Prestwick who last job was a line winchman at Slygo for CHC as the Chief Aircrewman. If you have not heard from BondOS having submitted your CV you are not one of the "selected few" on the training team but with a "on line" date of Dec 05 they have got to get thier finger out and train the 4 operational crews required.
All the rumours of watch systems are right on the button.Its 2 weeks on the rigs two weeks off, 2 weeks at SCATSA two weeks off and two weeks based at Aberdeen and repeat the cycle. Heres the interesting bit PAY:The top whack for the winch ops is £41K this includes all your bonus's for rig time ect....do the maths and you will see that this contract falls well within what Bristows and CHC are paying for in country SAR crews if you take the given that you do 18 shifts on the rigs a year.
Watch this space for breaking news as Jigsaw goes on line.

PS: They are starting this venture form scratch from the L2 to the toaster..I think that they mean business!!!

If you are on duty for 2 weeks in Aberdeen, can you then go on to do 2 weeks of (I assume) 12 hour shifts offshore without busting Flight Duty limits? Or is there another 2 weeks off between Aberdeen and offshore?

18 shifts per year offshore? I make it you do 5 two weeks stints offshore on the above quoted scheme plus the same in Scatsta.

genesis848

I am not very good at sums, but only "4 operational crews" does not seem enough to cover the shifts you stated at 3 locations.

ri

North Sea Jigsaw
 

genesis848

A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing!!! or is just sour grapes on your part coz you didn't get in??

You can't have been to Bond otherwise you would know the pay is more than 41,000

Perhaps you are just trying to put decent backseaters off so you can get a look in!! Touching any raw nerves yet!!!;)

Looks like the knives are starting to come out......... Maybe because Bristow seem to be on the up at last ? CHC don't appear to have proved much after the inital shock, shame people lost their jobs in the meantime.

Looking at the shift pattern there does seem to be some holes in it.

To cover 24 hours at Scatsta and offshore you need at least 4 crews, assuming the other 4 are on time off then it becomes 8 crews and then 10 if you have 1 two week period in Aberdeen.

In my calculations you will exceed the 2000 duty hour limit under the new european working time directive which comes in to force on the 13th April. Apparently that comes with either a £1000 fine or a prison sentence for anyone who does!!!!! Nice, you go to prison for working too hard, what utter sh....

Bristow are working on this problem at the moment, CHC Ireland units appear to know nothing about it (from my sources) and neither does Bond if the above is what they are proposing.

Meanwhile, it seems the new Bond co-pilots starting in September have already been told they WILL be going on jigsaw after their first year.

RTS.

Could you expand on the European working time directive ( links, info etc)........!?

I'm particular interested in the HEMS/SAR scene regarding this directive

My source tells me that Bond Offshore pilots are being individually interviewed by management and are being told they will be required to sign a waiver to the european working time directive. Is this true?

Joedirt,

Have a look at the links below. It's heavy reading but should give you some answers.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...on_028337.hcsp

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...on_032810.hcsp

Basically, you can not exceed 2000 duty hours a year so it has big implications for any one running on a 24 hour or 12 hour roster.

Doing the maths anyone working a 12 hour roster can only work 13.9 shifts a month.

A 24 hour roster based on the current UK CG FTL works out at 8.5 shifts a month.

In addition to that you have to consider duty travel, HUET training and the other courses/refresher training etc.. you can't do while on shift. All of which must be logged as duty time. So naturally the number of shifts you can do falls.

From the DFT: -
Periods spent working overtime and on standby duty are captured under the definition of "working time" and should therefore be taken into account when calculating an individual's total annual working time.

To add to the employers problems it seems that every employee must take at least 20 days leave a year. That's LEAVE, not time off as a result of a rotating roster.

Roundwego,

I'm not sure that an employee can waiver the working time directive. Otherwise everyone would do it because from my understanding it's the worker NOT the company who pays the penalty for breaking it.

Anyway the fun continues,

RTS.

Roundwego,

As I read the rules, we are classed as mobile airworkers both SAR and commercial type flying. As such we cannot opt out. Therefore, I doubt your friend Mr Payne will be able to do as you suggest.

Happiness is an IFR hover!

genesis848
 

genesis848, you seem to know quite a bit, slightly wrong on pay with all bonuses etc, actual figure closer to£45k for winch op. two weeks on rig, two weeks off, two weeks scatsta, two weeks off. with two weeks leave per year to be taken one week at a time added onto time off, thus giving two 3 week periods per annum. the shifts on the rig will be 12 weeks per year and 12-13 weeks per year at scatsta.....25 weeks per year on shift x 12hr shifts x 7days= 2100 hours duty time per year....if this is a problem(over EU wtd 2000hrs) it is easily solved by classing some of 12 hr shift as standby time where only half is counted towards total duty time ie 10 hrs duty 2 hrs stby(counted as 1 hour) = 1925....bargain!

Angelonawire,
Not quite as cut and dried as that I'm afraid. I believe that the definition of 'Duty Time' has still not been clearly defined and is being discussed/argued about by the legal boys at this moment.
As I understand it the argument is very basically as follows;
By being on standby at the request of the employer the employee is deemed to be working for the employer, which, for the purposes of the Working Time Directive requires the duty time to be counted in full.
I don't know if any ruling has been declared yet, but, as the Danish have just adopted the Working Time Directive perhaps one of our colleagues in Denmark could comment?
Personally, I hope that the argument goes in our favour, i.e. standby duty hours to count in full. My reasons? Simple, the requirement for more pilots and engineers will result in more of them being employed.

Chopperman

angelonawire,

Nice try, but I'm sorry to say you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Standby period is spent is classed as time spent away from the base or in SAR from a state of immediate readiness in suitable accommodation etc. As Jigsaw is a 15 minute response time throughout the 12 hour period you can't be on standby during that period. What you have just suggested is basically cooking the books which not only lands you in trouble but also the company you work for. The CAA would take a very dim view of that. Fiddling duty hours is a well known scam and is checked for on unit audits.

You also haven't taken into account courses and checks away from the unit such as HUET, medical courses and duty travel or were you going to class that as leave?? :confused:

The EU directive is complicated but at the moment any pilot/crewman who works offshore has to claim 14hrs duty per day offshore. This is a CAA FTL mandatory requirement. You can do 9hrs flying duty within this 14hr period.

The EU also states that you have to have a minimum of 28 days leave a year. There are big discussions at the moment between offshore unions and the oil companies as to how leave is defined. The oil companies saying that the 13 days you have off between 15 day cycles can be "accountable leave". This is nonsense so a fight is developing.

If Bond are only offering 2 weeks leave you are being short changed. The industry standard is 42 days which includes public holidays and weekends within the period of leave taken.

332M

332mistress - Complicated is the right word! My understanding of the working time directive view on leave, is that a weeks leave should entitle the worker to one week away from work. Thus a weeks leave for a 5 day/week worker would equate to 5 days while a 3 day/week worker would equate to 3 days leave. The minimum requirement of the directive is 4 weeks leave per year so your 'standard 5 day a week office worker' requires a minimum of 20 days leave per year.

If you work on the basis that someone on an equal time on/off roster works a 3 1/2 day week, this would equate to only 14 days leave per year. However, and it is a big however, an offshore equal time on/off roster is not in reality equal time on/off, due to the change over flights, positioning etc. Additionally, I do not believe any major operator offers the minimum leave required by the directive.

Balancing this, is the fact that a two weeks on/two weeks off roster with two weeks leave is in fact a damned good deal when you look at it and compare with other rosters.

I realise I have sat happily on the fence and argued both sides of the discussion but then as you said, it is complicated!!

Cheers

TeeS

TeeS

Your quote below perhaps shows you have never done this type of roster, or are management!!

"Balancing this, is the fact that a two weeks on/two weeks off roster with two weeks leave is in fact a damned good deal when you look at it and compare with other rosters."

It is in fact a very poor deal compared with the onshore rosters I have worked in the N Sea. On average you are away from home 75% more than an on shore based N Sea Pilot. Your social life is very restricted as your life is totally controlled by the cyclical nature of the roster. No asking for specific days off for family reasons - if you are offshore then tough. Either Xmas or New Year offshore. You have to keep your family relationship going over the phone.

Any regular weekly activity is impossible due to you being away for 15 days at a time. You can not plan holidays starting within 2 days of your due date on shore because often you can not return onshore on time due to the weather being out of limits.

The accommodation is usually poor with the sharing of toilets etc common. Rig life is controlled by legions of rules which include no sunbathing on the helideck!! Although it has been tried but you don’t get much of a tan when wearing overalls, hard hat, safety specs and gloves.

If this roster is so good why are there very few volunteers to do it within my company? Most who do it have very personnel reasons for doing it which out way the very large downside, though even that is not a strong enough reason for some who have left recently for the benefits of an on shore roster.

I think those who have signed up for Jigsaw may be in for a shock. Working regularly on the same rig allows you some stability but constantly changing locations between rig/Scatsta/Aberdeen will not.

The way some companies interpret the CAA Flight Duty scheme may also mean that after you stint at Aberdeen you may only have 3 days off before going away for 15 days.

My wife has suffered me being based both on and offshore and she certainly prefers me being based onshore but is willing to sacrifice a large part of family life for our own specific reasons. I will be interested to see how many original Jigsaw crews are still in post after a couple of years.

Good luck to those on Jigsaw

HF
(who wasn’t headhunted
:ok: )

The standard touring roster with CHC Australia is 2 weeks on, two off, but you still get your entitled 6 weeks annual leave. (Standard annual leave in Oz is 4 weeks, if you do shift work, as our roster is classed as, you get 6 weeks) You earn your two weeks off as you've just spent two weeks away in some crappy location, (usually) so it has nothing to do with your annual leave entitlement.

Question for you North Sea chaps..what or were is "SCATSA" I'm assuming it's the Shetlands?

Also, if you do two weeks on in Aberdeen, what are you actually doing there? There's no Jigsaw SAR aircraft based there is there? If not what are the winchops doing, working in head office photocopying???:confused:

Hummingfrog,

No offence, but you appear to have forgotten the main factor, which is CHOICE.

Yes, Xmas and New Year etc away is a bad routine, (doesn't happen every year) but some people actually exist very well on rosters like that.

As Mountainman would testify (he decided he'd had enough of it years ago), there are some who have lives and relationships (and are ex North Sea with it's "structured" life), who relish the amount of time off a roster like that can give you.

So please, let's not generalise:ok:

Have you been anywhere apart from the North Sea ? As I saId, no offence.

Cheers,

NEO.

Also, if you do two weeks on in Aberdeen, what are you actually doing there? There's no Jigsaw SAR aircraft based there is there? If not what are the winchops doing, working in head office photocopying???

Probably yes they will. They will be washing aircraft, acting as ground staff and god knows what else. It's the new, caring sharing Bond - no job is too small for a winchop! ;-)

By the way if you finish washing the aircraft early can you do my car? :E

RTS

I'll wash your car if you tell me what SCATSA stands for!:}

hey i'll wash your nicks and socks for £45k a year and 26 weeks off, i'm not shy!!!

Winchop; your guess was right, Scatsta is in the Shetland Islands. It's the closest land base for the more northen fields.

Hi Hummingfrog -

I worked the offshore rosters on both the Piper/Claymore and Forties for a fair period. At the time it was Week on/week off which really meant 8 on/6 off by the time you had done your travelling. Two weeks on/off would have been far better for me but was not an option. While based onshore I was bounced between Strubby, Humberside, Beccles, Blackpool and Bournmouth so there was never anything more stable about homelife!

Without doubt the best roster I ever worked was Sumburgh (in the Peter Boor days - Top bloke! Where is he now?) 5 on, 2 off, 5 on, 9 off. Still cracked 900 hrs flying less than half the year!

The option to have 2 blocks of three weeks off would cost me 42 days leave under my current scheme (we only get 36 days/year) and you get two weeks off every month, it sound good to me!!

And no, I am just a line pilot so no hidden agenda.

Cheers

TeeS

Tees said

"And no, I am just a line pilot .......

Come come, such modesty! JUST ??? Get back to work

Ooops! Caught again!

Nigerian Expat.

I agree it is all about choice. I chose to be offshore for my own specific reasons. I was trying to describe that the Bond deal with only 2 weeks leave is a very poor deal compared to the industry standard of 42 days leave

The time off is not the main reason most of us work offshore. We have had 2 pilots leave recently because the demands of family life outweighed the benefits of working offshore.

I admit I have only worked N Sea (Puma/Dauphin) in my civil life but have worked many odd rosters in my RAF days in N Ireland and the Falklands. If I lived near Aberdeen I would not work offshore - it seems idyllic having 13 days off a month but you do pay for them and they soon get used up as you complete all those tasks which you would have done after a normal flying day onshore. Remember an onshore based Puma pilot will get 9-10 days off a month!

TeeS

Unless you are very very old ;) I must know you as we have worked the same platforms and the same rosters with Bond. You must have been unlucky to have been bounced around the Southern bases as most of us had a reasonable stable roster based on Frigg/Tharos/Iolair 40s - ah the joys of single pilot must have a nostalgia break.:ok:

OK back to earth now.

I agree It is all about choice. All I can say is that if the Bond roster of Rig/Scatsta/Abn with 2 weeks leave a year is true then it may suit some people and they have to make their own choices.

HF

Having spoken to 2 Oracles Tim Wilson CAA and David Shepherd DFT in our part of aviation industry (mobile airworkers) we are not allowed to opt out.

Happy hovering!!