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Still very quiet on the rumour front though BALPA Log did have an article on the concept. Is it going to happen?:confused:
Am I going to have to retire my yellow helmet!!:{ HF |
There's a Rotorhead on the Newcastle Crash thread by the name of Jigsaw Jockey, conspicuous by his/her absence from this discussion.
Perhaps due to embarassment at their 100k salary.:O Let's have the story Jockey |
North Sea BP Jigsaw
Anyone got any news on the BP jigsaw SAR contract? Has it died a death yet or is BP still wanting to push on with it?
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Due to BP selling its assets in the N Sea Bond will have a spare Puma on contract to BP so watch this space for Jigsaw in 2005.
332M;) |
Rumour mill has it Bond will supply two aircraft, one based offshore and one onshore in the Shetlands somewhere.
Any one any idea where the crews are going to come from? Lots of military SAR crews with loads of experience who would like to get out of the RN/RAF - hint, hint. Here's hoping :D JKnife |
Seems the rumour wasn't far off according to the following:
http://www.shephard.co.uk/Assets/Ima.../bond332l2.jpg Aberdeen, Scotland: Bond Offshore Helicopters has been awarded a long-term contract by BP Exploration for two new Super Pumas to provide search-and-rescue (SAR) services in support of operations by the oil major in the Central and Northern North Sea and West of the Shetland Islands. Under the 10-year contract, valued at approximately 100 million, Bond will provide two dedicated, state-of-the-art Super Puma AS332L Mark II helicopters, air and ground crews and full back-up for round-the-clock SAR, 365 days a year. The aircraft have been ordered from Eurocopter for delivery in the second half of 2005 when they will go into service in December with onsite immediate response crews and engineers. One aircraft will be based on a production platform in the Central North Sea and the other on Shetland. They will operate in conjunction with advanced Regional Support Ships provided by one of BPs marine contractors The twin-engine Mark II Super Pumas provide improved safety and performance, with a four-axis auto-hover system which significantly enhances the aircrafts ability to operate in severe weather conditions and at night; a dual hoist system, and state-of-the-art avionics and SAR equipment, making the Super Puma one of the most advanced SAR aircraft in the world. Around 40 personnel - pilots, rescue crew and engineers - are being recruited by Bond for the contract. The company has already secured a number of them and they will be employed meantime on other services. Bond began operating services to the offshore industry in the North Sea in the early 1970s, becoming a leader in its field in the UK and internationally. The company and its staff have extensive experience of providing SAR services to the offshore industry, military and government bodies in Europe and Australia. Geoff Williams, Bond Offshore Helicopters Managing Director, said: The contract takes helicopter operations in the offshore industry into a new dimension, with search-and-rescue being significantly enhanced through these dedicated aircraft and crews in their specialist role. The scope and scale of the contract is also a major step forward in the development of our services to the industry and in the creation of further long-term employment. The SAR helicopters will bring to seven the Super Pumas in Bonds fleet. |
Bond-Jigsaw
I'm amazed at the lack of comments regarding Bond being awarded the Jigsaw contract.
I am a Coastguard SAR pilot, and I know the guys that did the Jigsaw trial, and to a man, they all said how difficult it was to work up to and maintain the standard that BP required........and they were almost all current Coastguard aircrew. Where are Bond going to get that kind of experience from ? Ex military pilots are generally very good, but it takes time to get them up to speed (no critisism intended, civvy flying is just different) And I've heard the L2 is not the easiest machine to get to grips with (I'll stick to my 61 thanks) I think it's great to see more work coming up, but I personally don't believe that Bond have the experience to start up this kind of SAR operation. If BP were so keen on safety at any cost, why didn't they give the work to a proven operator? Does anyone care? |
South Africa and Australia silly.......
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Press and Journal Aberdeen
UNION ANGER AS BP REVEALS PLANS TO REPLACE STANDBY SAFETY VESSELS Oil giant BP is poised to reveal plans for a new offshore safety system scrapping standby safety vessels today - a move certain to provoke a furious response from unions representing offshore workers. Details of plans for four giant motherships, each with two high performance lifeboats, combined with more helicopter cover, personal locator devices and better survival equipment were given to union leaders and MPs last night. Under what is known as Operation Jigsaw the central and north North Sea will be divided into three areas with BP installations, each of which will be patrolled by one of the new regional support vessels, with the fourth en route to or from shore with supplies. Their lifeboats - autonomous recovery rescue craft or "arcs" - will each be the equivalent of RNLI sea-going lifeboats and capable of rescuing survivors and completing passage ashore, according to reports. It was not clear if the motherships will be equipped with helicopter platforms and carry their own aircraft. They will be similar, but 50% larger, than existing multi-role vessels used in the southern North Sea It is understood BP have commissioned the craft from Chinese shipyards and that their keels have already been laid. They will replace the existing fleet of largely chartered safety vessels, one of which is on constant patrol round each platform. The company claim that the new safety regime will be more expensive to operate than current arrangements and provide better security and safety cover. Senior executives firmly deny their motive is to save money. Among concerns likely from politicians, some of whom are expected to give the company's plans a very cautious welcome, is the fact that BP have raced ahead without producing a prototype for testing in severe North Sea conditions. There is also worry about the effect on other offshore operators like Marathon and Kerr McGee. But the senior National Union of Marine Aviation and Shipping Transport Officers (Numast) national secretary Alan Graveson said: "Jigsaw has two key pieces missing." He said these include the removal of safety vessels, one of whose tasks is to warn off shipping that come too close, with an increased risk of collision. The other that in the event of a mass abandonment "helicopters with regional support vessels carrying 'daughter' craft will be woefully inadequate". He protested the unions had been given just 24 hours warning of the announcement of proposals which appeared to mean "that all that was learned following the Piper Alpha disaster has been thrown in the bin". He said: "It is a disgrace to the memory of those who lost their lives." BP has made substantial changes to proposals first put forward in 2002 which were roundly denounced by the unions. They were also widely criticised by MPs and standby vessel owners. One of the most telling complaints was that there was an over reliance on helicopters which were said not to be able to cope with a mass abandonment and unable to operate in the worst weather, putting lives at risk. A BP spokeswoman said then their proposals would include a significant marine element and enhance substantially their safety capability. She said: "We are concluding our detailed evaluation of the various components of the project which includes both aviation and marine elements, which have been the subject of intensive consultation with offshore employers and contractors." BP was approached for comment last night. An emergency meeting of the Inter-Union Offshore Oil Committee is being called to discus the proposals. It is understood the Health and Safety Executive have been consulted by BP and may have signalled their approval. |
Mountainman I guess that all this committment to safety is fine until it costs.
Bristows are the number one SAR operator but they must cost more as they have the best equipped civil SAR helicopters in the world. I saw the Jigsaw Mk2 at Helitech and it was superb, they had taken a good Mk2 and improved it out of all recognition - what are Bond going to do? Also the BP press release says that it will create 40 jobs - how are they going to run 2x 24/7 sites and a spare aircraft and crew and trainers with only 40 people? You must hand it to BP though, they sold the concept to the workforce using Bristows and then implement it with a cheap copy. |
Hambling Chaos
If you are who I think you are, your comments are interesting since I would have thought that you would have been involved in the contract award unless the decision was viod of any operational input and made exclusively by bean counters?? These must be interesting times for you. HH:cool: |
Hippolite
I am not sure I know who you think I am! My typing skills are quite poor and shambling chaos didn't come out quite right when I logged on- don't go on the handle listen to the message! However, you comment about bean counters may be quite apposite. Put helicopters offshore, get a tick in the box, save money. |
Has any announcment of the final locations of these aircraft been given? I've heard that BP are planning (or hoping) to base one of these aircraft in Scasta :oh: though I thought the plan was to base one/them offshore..... :confused: and for those who don't know, there is an offshore based emergency heliochopper in East Shetland Basin, Statoil have a 214 based on Statfjord (a few miles from Brent!) to which Shell have a contract with, and use now and again for casevacs and the odd emergency downman, but BP cannot use it and currently have to wait for the Coastguard S-61 from Sumburgh.
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BP and Bond go back a long way with SAR trials. This photo was taken on the Belford Dolphin accommodation rig in the Forties field in 1978.
If my memory serves me right, the BP rep agreed to a trial using a rope ladder. The person climbing up it (he is only about 2 feet above the helideck) was one of the aircraft engineers. This trial was for obvious reasons not a success! The pilot posts on this forum. Does he remember?? Bond went on to provide a very successful SAR service with a Dauphin for many years. http://www.hughmartin.btinternet.co.uk/Fly/Jigsaw.jpg |
The method described above by Hugh, is not a new one.
I clearly recall thr "Batcopter" an all-singing, all dancing variant of the Bell 47 being used in a similar fashion. Unfortunately during the trials, with Robin at the helm, Batman was savagely attacked by a Shark! After some deft work with an aerosol can of shark repellant, the vicious beast let go. Later on they also demonstrated a unique emergency preocedure when they suffered an engine failure but were fortunate enough to perform an emergency landing in a mattress factory! :8 :ok: |
Hi Hugh
Where in the hell did you get that photo???? The person on the ladder was a deck attendant who had never climbed a rope ladder in his life which is why BP chose him. The person in the back is an engineer whose job was to watch and make any safety comments but not to do anything unless for safety. The ladder was rolled up and fitted under the rear seat, the whole idea being that it could be left there and rolled out by the pilot when an emergency rose. The pilot, and I won't say who he was but he left for Oz the nezt week, rolled out the ladder and the climber was in the back in under 30 seconds. BP were suitably impressed as this was done in response to a 61 ditching with only 3 on board and the other helicopters flying by could only watch, although 1 did toss out a life raft which went a few miles downwind. The Forties Kiwi very kindly made the ladder. How time flies!!!:O |
Interesting pictures, I can see from that lifting technique why Bond aren't recruiting that many people!
Despite Bond and BP's 'long history' of SAR trials :confused: I should point out that the Jigsaw trials were slightly more complicated than getting some poor sod to climb up a rope ladder! Nowadays the BP Health and Safety Department would have a f**king fit at the very thought of an untrained man climbing a rope ladder to a helicopter without the aid of safety ropes, trained medics, roped off areas, HSE consultants and a bouncy castle. But it is nice to see that the man in question has one hand on the ladder rail at all times! So no red card there! In fact it's a very different North Sea to the one Bond left, as I believe they are now discovering. So I have no idea where they are going to get their staff from. There aren't that many qualified guys around and as anyone who's been involved in SAR will tell you - SAR training takes time and experience. It's not just a case of putting crew on a 3 month SAR course to get a tick in the box. If BP and Bond are serious about this then they are going to need to get the right guys to run it and man it. SAR is about experience and that's hard to find. There were a lot of lessons learnt during the trial on both the flying and engineering side that will have to be learnt all over again. Anyway, good luck chaps. But the real burning question is what are they going to call their aircraft? Bristow owns the 'jigsaw' callsign so what will Bond use? Answers on a postcard..... |
Night Watchman has hit the nail on the head, things have moved on in recent years and things are hopefully a lot more professional.
If the rumours about Bond pay are true, what self respecting SAR pilot or crewman is going to jump ship to join an outfit with no REAL SAR pedigree, which is clearly being run on a shoe string? The Jigsaw crew at Helitech explained that they had to modify the SAR autohover control in the cabin as the standard Eurocopter system needed a crewman with 3 hands- there are some ugly crewmen around but very few with 3 hands! Where will BP get all that kit from, will Bristows cut their own throat and sell the design? I bet the CAA and HSE are watching BP very carefully. |
But the real burning question is what are they going to call their aircraft? Bristow owns the 'jigsaw' callsign so what will Bond use? Answers on a postcard..... :} |
How about:
Once piece short of a Jigsaw. Or, the Nightsun is on but the 3 armed crewman is not at home. Or, The names Bond, Jig Bond. |
Do you reckon some Bristow SAR folks might be enticed to leave for greener pastures? Afterall...if Bond got the contract...there will be some overstaffing at the outfits that lost the bid. Or am I wrong here? Rumbles from Nigeria seem to suggest that OLOG is intent upon replacing Brits with Local pilots.
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Whoever won this contract would have had a problem finding the crews to man it. I don't believe that any of the contenders has 12 SAR qualified captains, flying non SAR line flights, available to fill this contract. There are also going to need pilots who are willing to live in Scasta!! or spend half their life on one of bp's rigs being constantly b*******d for not holding onto a stair handrail etc.
It will be interesting to see the terms and conditions that Bond are prepared to offer to entice suitabley qualified pilots to join them. As Night Watchman said you can't take an AS332L2 captain who has never night winched over water and turn him into a safe SAR captain in less than 6 months and with a 90 flying hr training bill (Seaking SAR course times). Interesting times ahead for those who are SAR qualified and are willing to spend half the year away from their family!!! AP |
SASless
I don't think Bristow will lose SAR crews just because Bond have won the Jigsaw contract. The Bristow Jigsaw guys are mostly now working on a contract in Holland with the black and yellow Mk 2 that was at Helitech, and the Coastguard units still need to be crewed. Certainly no overstaffing at any of these units. I suppose it is possible that for some of the guys in Holland, they may make a move if they want to go back to UK and Bristow tell them there isn't a job for them at home. No doubt Bond would be interested in them as they were in at the start of BP's pet project. As to OLOG wanting US pilots instead of Brits, I too have heard that, but a lot of the oil companies evidently want pilots with North Sea experience. Wonder how much longer that will happen though with those b*****d accountants in the contract departments of the oil companies who want helicopters out in Nigeria? BHPS |
As someone still in UK military SAR I would like to ask Mountainman why he says "Ex military pilots are generally very good, but it takes time to get them up to speed". Aren't most of the Captains in Bristow SAR ex-military anyway, or are there some purely civil-trained ones now? What about the aircrewmen? If the pilots have trouble, then surely all ex-military must have some problems adopting to civil procedures?
I cannot see what the difference is between the way military SAR crews work and the way Civil do except possibly when it comes to training. I understand that there aren't many hours to train each month in the civil world (and there aren't as many as there were in the military world these days), plus the CAA apply some restrictions which do not apply to the military. That aside, please explain? Don't the procedures that Bristow use originally come from the UK military anyway? As for the new contract with Bond, if Bristow had won it, wouldn't they have needed to get new crews, so they would have been in the same position anyway, despite what Mountainman says about a proven unit? I wonder what the training will be for those that Bond take on? I guess it wont be anywhere near the amount that AllyPally suggests from the military course that he mentions. I agree with him and Night Watchman that it takes time to gain experience and I would suggest that even 6 months is too quick for a SAR Captain. More like a year at least. However, even saying all that, I think there may well be some military crews interested if they can get their "get out of jail free" card arranged in time. JKnife |
JKnife,
The trouble is that there is not a standard military way to do SAR. As an ex military pilot myself, I know that the way the navy crewmen con a deck is different to the RAF way. The civilian way tends to take a bit from each service and tweaks it a bit, so ex military pilots have to adapt to a new(ish) way of doing things. More SAR pilots are being trained in-house as fewer military pilots join the N Sea these days. Also the civilian SAR helicopters tend to be better equipped and the crewman's job involves using the FLIR, also the radar is in the front not the back. Most oil companies impose minimum hours limitations on commanders, often specifying a minimum no of offshore hours as well. It is unusual for a military pilot to get his command in less than a year, even for fast-tracked experienced military SAR pilots. So, if Jigsaw suddenly need a lot of experienced SAR pilots the the choice is to poach current civilian SAR pilots (pay them big bucks) or get ex mil pilots and pay big bucks to train them. |
Thanks Hambling Chaos for your input. You appear to suggest that the military do not have a standard way of doing things. I must strongly disagree. The Navy has its way of doing it and the RAF its way, I agree, but that doesn't mean that we don't have our standards. Surely you must realise this from your service days? Each service does standardise within its own and, by what you are saying, so does Bristow. Is it not that the RN, RAF and Bristow (plus now Bond who will probably have their own procedures), are really just different "companies"?
Are there not differences in procedures if you change between companies in the civil world? It surely doesn't take long to get used to the new procedures? I just get the feeling you and Mountainman are trying to make it sound more difficult than it actually is. As for the equipment, well, it might be better, but you still need the pilots and aircrewmen to do the job at the end, which is winching. Not that difficult to learn new equipment and quicker than trying to get the overall experience of SAR, I would suggest. I guess we'll have to see what Bond will offer for experience at the end of the day as you say. I suspect (hope?) that if they really need SAR experienced crews they may just ask the oil companies to reassess their minimum hours limitations, or does the CAA have a say as well? JKnife |
Hello JKnife,
(s)Hambling Chaos has really answered your question, but let me elaborate slightly. Of course the military have standards, but you make the point yourself that they are not the same standards. If you left the RN (for instance) and joined a unit staffed wholly by ex-RN aircrew, you would have no problem fitting in. However, when you join a civvy outfit like Bristows, you will be working with Ex RN, RAF and civvy aircrew (yes we do have home-grown captains now) How long does it take to convince an ex RAF pilot that it is not the best idea to change from aircraft to boat axis in the middle of a transfer? I fly with ex RAF pilots who have been out of the forces for 10 years and they still revert to type when under pressure. You cannot afford for this to happen on a dark and stormy night. It's equally difficult to stop ex RN crewmen from saying "easy, easy, steady" and although it's not a killer, it does emphasise the point that a good SAR crew MUST know what each other are going to say and do when under pressure. Surely your standards teams would agree? When we do a transfer from a yacht under way, we will get the yacht to go on a port tack,close hauled rather than sails down. This allows us to effect a hi-line transfer whilst the mast is held off to Starboard by the wind, safe in the knowledge that our down draft will not blow the yacht over....why? Because our winching position is just behind the cockpit rather than well aft like the Seaking.So there's your next problem, you also have a differant aircraft to contend with. Once you have got all this sorted out, and feel ready for command, you will then have to convince all the other aircrew on the unit that you are up to scratch and dependable. Your rank will not give you any respect on a civvy SAR unit, it only dictates how much you get paid. Training wise, each unit gets 45 hours a month for training, and this will give you about 15- 20 hours training per man. If this all sounds like civvy "spin", then speak to any of the ex-mil guys on the units and ask them how they found the transition. Finally, yes, the CAA have an enormous input, as I believe Bond are now discovering. Launching off with a hearty "Hi Ho Silver" and returning for tea and medals does not go down well with them (sadly, as I miss those days) |
I have a feeeling that SAR experience was most definately NOT the reason for the contract being awarded to Bond, but more the fact that BP are trying to utilise the aircraft that would be spare in the new contract about to start. Remember, when the contract was awarded to Bond it was for x amount of L2's, then BP subsequently sold off Forties, Thistle, Montrose and one or two others, result- too many helicopters.... No doubting the fact that G-JSAR is a state of the art piece of kit, and very experienced crews along with it, but can bond now lure these guys their way????
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Mountainman
Thanks for your comments. I would question you more on some of them, but this topic is not for that and I think we have taken up enough space. JKnife |
Simfly,
So you are saying that Bond picked up the work because BP had bought them too many L2s? Sounds like the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing! Experienced civil licensed SAR pilots and experienced crewmen are at a premium - what do you think the going rate will be to sit and get bored stupid offshore? The Norwegians pay their offshore based crews something like £200+ a day on top of their normal salary. I think to jump ship from a land based SAR unit to live on a N Sea Platform I would need at least that much encouragement! Anyone know what Bond/BP are paying? Running In |
Running In
I think it will take more than just pay (unless it is lots and lots and lots, in which case I might be interested!) to get people to "jump ship". Conditions of employment, the equipment and training will all come into play. If Jigsaw is to be done on a shoe string then retaining people could be a problem. |
H Chaos
I agree that retention could be a problem, look at the civilian SAR operator across the water! I hope that BP/Bond will appreciate that SAR is more complex than ferrying people to a rig. |
running in,
Across which piece of water are we talking about? If it's Eire, we're having absolutely no problem with retention, in fact, there is a waiting list of people to join. |
Sailor Vee
Which I suppose is why Bristows had a spate of crewmen joining them from Ireland. |
I see that Bond have just accepted their first L2. Does anyone know when the first SAR aircraft is arriving?
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Heard SAR part doesn't start till 2005ish.
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According to an item on Rotorhub at this link http://www.shephard.co.uk/Rotorhub/D...2-4ad0a85df59c it says that the SAR aircraft will not be delivered until August 2005. The other 5 aircraft in passenger configuration will all be delivered by July this year.
Anyone know if Bond Offshore have sorted out their AOC yet? Heard that the CAA weren't happy with some things and haven't issued it yet. BHPS |
JKnife,
I appreciate your restraint. Please feel free to PM me anytime for a chat. Mountainman |
If jigsaw isn't due to start until late 2005 why has the Mk2 been chosen for the job when more capable aircraft will be in service by then.
Both the S92 and Ec225 are more capable than the Mk2, have better safer systems, for example a run-dry gearbox. The S92 has a bigger cabin, always a plus when picking up lots of survivors. The EC 225 is faster than the Mk2 and has better hover performance. It does seem strange that a soon to be obsolescent aircraft has been chosen for a system which is meant to improve safety, when the new types on the N Sea will offer much more. Unless it boils down to cost, or am I being cynical again? |
Running in:
Are you sure of your facts about the run-dry gearboxes? |
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