Mirror exposes deadly helicopter peril! (Merged)
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Helinut
Unless it's unavoidable, the nationals rarely adopt a 'campaign' started by a competitor, any more than they'd give additional publicicity to another paper's 'exclusive' - they'd rather run a 'spoiler' than do that. If a campaign is successful, the orginal paper takes all the credit.
----------------
I wouldn't be surprised if the Mirror's 'campaign' fizzles out, but it would be a big mistake to assume the problem has gone away for ever. The results of Dantruck's enquiries are interesting and helpful, but it would be a mistake to assume the DoT is the only government department/body looking at the security aspects of helicopters and GA in the current climate.
The way forward is to keep our ears to the ground and be ready to advance carefully reasoned, informed arguments if/when the need arises. If the need doesn't arise - all the better!
Mr Keetch's excuse?
I don't know what he'd say, but I suspect the truth is someone from the Mirror called him on Friday inviting him (as LibDem Defence spokesman) to comment on that day's big story for Saturday's edition. Journos always want a comment then, not later, about stories of this sort. The wise course is to take time to consider the issues and think about what you want to say. However, from a politician's point of view, there's a terrible risk they'll find someone else to comment - and he'll get the coverage. Horror!
Result: Ill thought out, uninformed, drivel.
Down-side - people who don't matter much realise it was drivel.
Up-side - 99% of people don't realise it was drivel.
And, it still got his name in the papers!
How many people on this forum had even heard of Paul Keetch MP before this? Or, knew that he was LibDem Defence spokesman?
No publicity is bad publicity etc
Edit
Bold added
Unless it's unavoidable, the nationals rarely adopt a 'campaign' started by a competitor, any more than they'd give additional publicicity to another paper's 'exclusive' - they'd rather run a 'spoiler' than do that. If a campaign is successful, the orginal paper takes all the credit.
----------------
I wouldn't be surprised if the Mirror's 'campaign' fizzles out, but it would be a big mistake to assume the problem has gone away for ever. The results of Dantruck's enquiries are interesting and helpful, but it would be a mistake to assume the DoT is the only government department/body looking at the security aspects of helicopters and GA in the current climate.
The way forward is to keep our ears to the ground and be ready to advance carefully reasoned, informed arguments if/when the need arises. If the need doesn't arise - all the better!
Mr Keetch's excuse?
I don't know what he'd say, but I suspect the truth is someone from the Mirror called him on Friday inviting him (as LibDem Defence spokesman) to comment on that day's big story for Saturday's edition. Journos always want a comment then, not later, about stories of this sort. The wise course is to take time to consider the issues and think about what you want to say. However, from a politician's point of view, there's a terrible risk they'll find someone else to comment - and he'll get the coverage. Horror!
Result: Ill thought out, uninformed, drivel.
Down-side - people who don't matter much realise it was drivel.
Up-side - 99% of people don't realise it was drivel.
And, it still got his name in the papers!
How many people on this forum had even heard of Paul Keetch MP before this? Or, knew that he was LibDem Defence spokesman?
No publicity is bad publicity etc
Edit
Bold added
Last edited by Heliport; 5th Mar 2003 at 05:45.
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Not quite sure if Helinut's "voice of the people" refers only to the print media, but sadly a local councillor has padlocked herself to the railings on this one.
In this story she has written to the airport wanting tighter security checks "because residents living under the flight path are vulnerable". Argh. Sounds like she needs to live on Fairford's flightpath instead.........
Full text of that story to save you looking it up (I've only included the link so you can double check it!)...........
A HELICOPTER company at the centre of a security loophole exposed by a national newspaper says it has nothing to hide.
Biggin Hill Helicopters, which operates out of a hangar at Biggin Hill Airport, was exposed by the Daily Mirror as not carrying out luggage checks before a sight-seeing flight over London .
But Captain Bill Lowry, managing director of Biggin Hill Helicopters, says his company complies with all regulations laid down by the Civil Aviation Authority.
He said: "Helicopter operators are not required to search passengers or their bags and I'm not aware of any operator in the country which does."
He added: "If the Mirror would like to see the rules changed, it would have been much fairer if they'd taken the matter up with the authorities."
Biggin Hill Airport was singled out for allegedly allowing a helicopter to be chartered and flown over Parliament, Buckingham Palace and other city landmarks without rigid security controls.
Orpington councillor Jenny Powell has written to the airport to seek assurances security will be tightened.
She said: "If the airport is lax about safety and security, residents living under the flight path are vulnerable."
Biggin Hill Airport says it operates in accordance with the Department of Transport's National Aviation Security Programme (NASP).
A spokesman said: "The airport is carrying out a full investigation into the helicopter company's operation."
11:48 Tuesday 4th March 2003
In this story she has written to the airport wanting tighter security checks "because residents living under the flight path are vulnerable". Argh. Sounds like she needs to live on Fairford's flightpath instead.........
Full text of that story to save you looking it up (I've only included the link so you can double check it!)...........
A HELICOPTER company at the centre of a security loophole exposed by a national newspaper says it has nothing to hide.
Biggin Hill Helicopters, which operates out of a hangar at Biggin Hill Airport, was exposed by the Daily Mirror as not carrying out luggage checks before a sight-seeing flight over London .
But Captain Bill Lowry, managing director of Biggin Hill Helicopters, says his company complies with all regulations laid down by the Civil Aviation Authority.
He said: "Helicopter operators are not required to search passengers or their bags and I'm not aware of any operator in the country which does."
He added: "If the Mirror would like to see the rules changed, it would have been much fairer if they'd taken the matter up with the authorities."
Biggin Hill Airport was singled out for allegedly allowing a helicopter to be chartered and flown over Parliament, Buckingham Palace and other city landmarks without rigid security controls.
Orpington councillor Jenny Powell has written to the airport to seek assurances security will be tightened.
She said: "If the airport is lax about safety and security, residents living under the flight path are vulnerable."
Biggin Hill Airport says it operates in accordance with the Department of Transport's National Aviation Security Programme (NASP).
A spokesman said: "The airport is carrying out a full investigation into the helicopter company's operation."
11:48 Tuesday 4th March 2003
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ppheli,
My "voice of the people" was intended to refer to any additional media reporting of the event.
You don't say where it comes from, but this article appears to be from a local rag near Biggin. I don't suppose that the Cabinet form their policy by reading such a paper, but it is a shame that the article has appeared.
This poor lady is obviously on completely the wrong track, but she no doubt thinks she is looking after her constituents. She is one of those sad misguided people that believes what she reads in the newspapers!
It will probably die a death, but at some point someone who actually knows something about helicopters and their ability/inability to be used for terrorist activity needs to intervene with some information.
I had hoped that the BHAB were going to be generating some sort of response that could be wheeled out on behalf of the industry - a simple enquiry there today suggest they are not planning to do anything at all at the moment - my feeling is that it would be useful for something to prepared at relative leisure - otherwise we will be behind the curve if the S**T starts to impact on the rotating air pump..
My "voice of the people" was intended to refer to any additional media reporting of the event.
You don't say where it comes from, but this article appears to be from a local rag near Biggin. I don't suppose that the Cabinet form their policy by reading such a paper, but it is a shame that the article has appeared.
This poor lady is obviously on completely the wrong track, but she no doubt thinks she is looking after her constituents. She is one of those sad misguided people that believes what she reads in the newspapers!
It will probably die a death, but at some point someone who actually knows something about helicopters and their ability/inability to be used for terrorist activity needs to intervene with some information.
I had hoped that the BHAB were going to be generating some sort of response that could be wheeled out on behalf of the industry - a simple enquiry there today suggest they are not planning to do anything at all at the moment - my feeling is that it would be useful for something to prepared at relative leisure - otherwise we will be behind the curve if the S**T starts to impact on the rotating air pump..
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Helinut
I agree.
I suspect/hope the BHAB is doing that, but it's important that we all do.
Burying our heads in the sand/assuming the problem's gone away would be a very big mistake.
Quote from FL post further up the page
Heliport
I agree.
I suspect/hope the BHAB is doing that, but it's important that we all do.
Burying our heads in the sand/assuming the problem's gone away would be a very big mistake.
Quote from FL post further up the page
The way forward is to keep our ears to the ground and be ready to advance carefully reasoned, informed arguments if/when the need arises. If the need doesn't arise - all the better!
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In my humble one, the job of preparing a response rests with the BHAB and the Helicopter Club of Great Britain. The former represents the commercial operators while the second can largely be said to speak for other civil interests. A joint representation would be best.
The trade press has responsibilities here, too. And an opportunity.
Yet the decision to spend time and members' money rests solely with those organisations and their members. Are any of us members? I am not, so I do not feel I have any right to ring them and demand or even suggest they do something. To mirror (sic) a point made in the 'easyJet pilots to strike?' thread about BALPA membership, such bodies are only as strong as the membership support they receive.
This is one of those times when we may be about to find out whether our membership fees were well spent or, worse, that we failed our community by never joining in the first place.
just a thought from afar
The trade press has responsibilities here, too. And an opportunity.
Yet the decision to spend time and members' money rests solely with those organisations and their members. Are any of us members? I am not, so I do not feel I have any right to ring them and demand or even suggest they do something. To mirror (sic) a point made in the 'easyJet pilots to strike?' thread about BALPA membership, such bodies are only as strong as the membership support they receive.
This is one of those times when we may be about to find out whether our membership fees were well spent or, worse, that we failed our community by never joining in the first place.
just a thought from afar
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Helinut
Your reply was as I expected regarding "voice of the people" The link I gave in my previous note goes to www.thisislocallondon.co.uk which appears to represent 28 local newspapers but it does not say which one filed this story. As you say, it seems to be local to Biggin. My reason for including it here was just to ensure that all the available info was brought together, however accurate or otherwise it might be eg. to ensure Flying Lawyer sees it as he is obviously in touch with BHH.
Your reply was as I expected regarding "voice of the people" The link I gave in my previous note goes to www.thisislocallondon.co.uk which appears to represent 28 local newspapers but it does not say which one filed this story. As you say, it seems to be local to Biggin. My reason for including it here was just to ensure that all the available info was brought together, however accurate or otherwise it might be eg. to ensure Flying Lawyer sees it as he is obviously in touch with BHH.
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I have read a few of these posts today.
I can see where this Gary Jones is coming from.
You should not be allowed to hover over parliament for that length of time without some sort of response.
People seem to have forgot 9/11.
I have no problems with choppers flying over London, but getting this close to parliament is a serious situation.
Do you think that a civy helicopter could get that close to the White House? I think not.
A terrorist attack is inevitable if we carry on with these security blunders.
We live in dangerous times. We have to take appropiate actions to minimise any attacks.
If it means that some of our civil libities have to be restricted then so be it.
I suppose I will be savaged now on this forum for speaking this way.
I can see where this Gary Jones is coming from.
You should not be allowed to hover over parliament for that length of time without some sort of response.
People seem to have forgot 9/11.
I have no problems with choppers flying over London, but getting this close to parliament is a serious situation.
Do you think that a civy helicopter could get that close to the White House? I think not.
A terrorist attack is inevitable if we carry on with these security blunders.
We live in dangerous times. We have to take appropiate actions to minimise any attacks.
If it means that some of our civil libities have to be restricted then so be it.
I suppose I will be savaged now on this forum for speaking this way.
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Skywolf...
I won't savage you, although I expect many will do, but...
Although I agree the helicopter industry should take some steps towards tightening security arrangements (or even simply introducing some, in some cases), the remainder of your comments are ill-informed. I suggest you re-read the thread more carefully and check the facts.
Quite clearly the helicopter in question did NOT hover over parliament. This was clearly stated by the pilot, Simon Maynard, and is not the sort of manouever approved on the heliroutes in any case. And to suggest, on a forum for professional civilian, military and private pilots that we have forgotten 9/11 is quite simply an insult.
Your deliberately inflammatory comments are out of place on this thread and more suited to a tabloid newspaper. Wonder if the Mirror would be interested...
DBChopper
I won't savage you, although I expect many will do, but...
Although I agree the helicopter industry should take some steps towards tightening security arrangements (or even simply introducing some, in some cases), the remainder of your comments are ill-informed. I suggest you re-read the thread more carefully and check the facts.
Quite clearly the helicopter in question did NOT hover over parliament. This was clearly stated by the pilot, Simon Maynard, and is not the sort of manouever approved on the heliroutes in any case. And to suggest, on a forum for professional civilian, military and private pilots that we have forgotten 9/11 is quite simply an insult.
Your deliberately inflammatory comments are out of place on this thread and more suited to a tabloid newspaper. Wonder if the Mirror would be interested...
DBChopper
This post needs to be read in conjunction with the initial report on page one of the thread!
WE COULD HAVE BOMBED ANY TARGET IN LONDON
Mar 07 2003
EXCLUSIVE
By A. Pilot
A fu<kin unbelievably, incredibly, heart stoppingly, mortifyingly, ball tearingly, TERRIFYING security loophole was exposed by a sight-seeing drive around London yesterday!!!
We hired a taxi without identity or luggage checks and drove near many of the capital's landmarks - including the Houses of Parliament, Canary Wharf, and the Putney Pie Shop.
Had we been terrorists (and we certainly looked terrified), it would have been easy to overpower the driver and send the taxi crashing into the House of Commons or Big Ben.
We could have hurled a bomb, hurled a lot, unleashed a deadly poison cloud or the gases from last night’s curry.
Buckingham Palace was within close range. A decent fart could have made it through the lax security at the gate and singed the top of those big furry hats. And at one point, the taxi stopped near Parliament about 1,500ft away!
We passed the Commons three times, and wind about eight times, causing so much noise that guests at a special lunch attended by Lord Tebbit could hardly hear themselves slap each other on the back.
Intelligence sources have warned that al-Qaeda terrorists might attempt a propaganda suicide bombing of Westminster. Intelligent sauces have always been a feature of Westminster cuisine and has therefore increased it’s value as a target, according to intelligent intelligence officers who intellegently leak this kind of important stuff to me when we are on another curry and beer night.
Helicopter sight-seeing tours were banned briefly after the September 11 attacks in America. Flying was banned briefly after the September 11 attacks in America. Crap journalism was supported extensively after the September 11 attacks in America. Incredibly – taxis WERE NOT banned after the September 11 attacks in America, and I for one want to know WHY!
In the US, tough security measures were introduced following the air hijackings - including stringent identity and bag checks for helicopter flights.
But there were no questions asked when some photographer I picked up the night before, (and can’t remember her name), and myself arrived at Putney for yesterday's trip. We didn't even give our full names. I think I told him my name was Brian, or Ali Akbar, or Roderick of Putney, or something (in case the tart tried to track me down in the future).
I had phoned the taxi company at about 10.30am saying I wanted to hire a taxi for a sight-seeing tour so I could confuse my “girlfriend” about her current location before dropping her off near Paddington.
At first I was told one wasn't available because of a training lesson but I was called back shortly afterwards on a mobile phone to be told: "If you can get out of bed by 1.15pm you'll be OK."
After jumping into the cab, I was met by a man called Will, who said: "You must be an animal. She is as ugly as half sucked mango".
I had a black bag with strap slung over my shoulder and my colleague a large handbag containing a digital camera (which we had used to great effect in the bedroom earlier). At no stage were the bags, or the bag, checked for their contents. They were not even given a cursory glance.
I was asked by the driver called Simon, in his early teens, what it contained. I replied: “About 20 pounds worth of curry, 5000 champagnes, and the fruit of my loins”. I was told to put the bag in the back because she could become entangled in the pedals.
No check had been made on either of our identities before we boarded the cab. Apart from the credit card details which I had given over the phone earlier, the cab company had no information about us, nor thankfully, did we have any information about each other.
It was only after we had toured and were driving back to Paddington Station that an address was asked for so a receipt could be given for the cost of the night. (And I had thought she just loved me!)
The taxi emblazoned with the company sign - drove directly towards Canary Wharf before following the path of the River Thames.
The spectacular journey passed the City of London and was supposed to end at Battersea power station when the slapper began to feel sick.
But our trip was interrupted by a Ministry of Defence taxi taking special services personnel to the Duke of York's barracks at Chelsea.
The distinctive dark green of her bile was given priority, and it flew out of her window a couple of feet away as we parked near the Commons.
Taxi’s apparently follow a pre-determined path into the capital, twisting and turning along the roads.
But with the Houses of Parliament directly on the road, a terrorist would not need to manoeuvre the taxi any great distance to hit the target. Security services and anti- terrorist police have warned of the threat of attack (and have been doing so over the past thirty years or so!!). MR SKYWOLF repeatedly screamed at passers by: “doesn’t anyone remember Oklahoma?”
Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens says: "It is not a question of if, but when." His aide then clapped him on the back and said “Well done sir, very profound sir, love ya quote there sir, wished I’d thought of it sir, that’s why you’re the bleedin’ commissioner sir”. All of the journalists present were so overcome by the profundity (I think I am too) that they forgot that the “when” has occurred already and the commissioner was taking the pi55 out of them. All then retired to the Putney Pie Shop to hear my lastest security concern about the amount of explosives that could be hidden under those furry hats at the Palace gates, and the increasing amount of champagne I need to apply as leg-opener these days.
A. Pilot wishes to acknowledge and thank Gary Jones for the structure of this report.
WE COULD HAVE BOMBED ANY TARGET IN LONDON
Mar 07 2003
EXCLUSIVE
By A. Pilot
A fu<kin unbelievably, incredibly, heart stoppingly, mortifyingly, ball tearingly, TERRIFYING security loophole was exposed by a sight-seeing drive around London yesterday!!!
We hired a taxi without identity or luggage checks and drove near many of the capital's landmarks - including the Houses of Parliament, Canary Wharf, and the Putney Pie Shop.
Had we been terrorists (and we certainly looked terrified), it would have been easy to overpower the driver and send the taxi crashing into the House of Commons or Big Ben.
We could have hurled a bomb, hurled a lot, unleashed a deadly poison cloud or the gases from last night’s curry.
Buckingham Palace was within close range. A decent fart could have made it through the lax security at the gate and singed the top of those big furry hats. And at one point, the taxi stopped near Parliament about 1,500ft away!
We passed the Commons three times, and wind about eight times, causing so much noise that guests at a special lunch attended by Lord Tebbit could hardly hear themselves slap each other on the back.
Intelligence sources have warned that al-Qaeda terrorists might attempt a propaganda suicide bombing of Westminster. Intelligent sauces have always been a feature of Westminster cuisine and has therefore increased it’s value as a target, according to intelligent intelligence officers who intellegently leak this kind of important stuff to me when we are on another curry and beer night.
Helicopter sight-seeing tours were banned briefly after the September 11 attacks in America. Flying was banned briefly after the September 11 attacks in America. Crap journalism was supported extensively after the September 11 attacks in America. Incredibly – taxis WERE NOT banned after the September 11 attacks in America, and I for one want to know WHY!
In the US, tough security measures were introduced following the air hijackings - including stringent identity and bag checks for helicopter flights.
But there were no questions asked when some photographer I picked up the night before, (and can’t remember her name), and myself arrived at Putney for yesterday's trip. We didn't even give our full names. I think I told him my name was Brian, or Ali Akbar, or Roderick of Putney, or something (in case the tart tried to track me down in the future).
I had phoned the taxi company at about 10.30am saying I wanted to hire a taxi for a sight-seeing tour so I could confuse my “girlfriend” about her current location before dropping her off near Paddington.
At first I was told one wasn't available because of a training lesson but I was called back shortly afterwards on a mobile phone to be told: "If you can get out of bed by 1.15pm you'll be OK."
After jumping into the cab, I was met by a man called Will, who said: "You must be an animal. She is as ugly as half sucked mango".
I had a black bag with strap slung over my shoulder and my colleague a large handbag containing a digital camera (which we had used to great effect in the bedroom earlier). At no stage were the bags, or the bag, checked for their contents. They were not even given a cursory glance.
I was asked by the driver called Simon, in his early teens, what it contained. I replied: “About 20 pounds worth of curry, 5000 champagnes, and the fruit of my loins”. I was told to put the bag in the back because she could become entangled in the pedals.
No check had been made on either of our identities before we boarded the cab. Apart from the credit card details which I had given over the phone earlier, the cab company had no information about us, nor thankfully, did we have any information about each other.
It was only after we had toured and were driving back to Paddington Station that an address was asked for so a receipt could be given for the cost of the night.
(And I had thought she just loved me!)The taxi emblazoned with the company sign - drove directly towards Canary Wharf before following the path of the River Thames.
The spectacular journey passed the City of London and was supposed to end at Battersea power station when the slapper began to feel sick.
But our trip was interrupted by a Ministry of Defence taxi taking special services personnel to the Duke of York's barracks at Chelsea.
The distinctive dark green of her bile was given priority, and it flew out of her window a couple of feet away as we parked near the Commons.
Taxi’s apparently follow a pre-determined path into the capital, twisting and turning along the roads.
But with the Houses of Parliament directly on the road, a terrorist would not need to manoeuvre the taxi any great distance to hit the target. Security services and anti- terrorist police have warned of the threat of attack (and have been doing so over the past thirty years or so!!). MR SKYWOLF repeatedly screamed at passers by: “doesn’t anyone remember Oklahoma?”
Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir John Stevens says: "It is not a question of if, but when." His aide then clapped him on the back and said “Well done sir, very profound sir, love ya quote there sir, wished I’d thought of it sir, that’s why you’re the bleedin’ commissioner sir”. All of the journalists present were so overcome by the profundity (I think I am too) that they forgot that the “when” has occurred already and the commissioner was taking the pi55 out of them. All then retired to the Putney Pie Shop to hear my lastest security concern about the amount of explosives that could be hidden under those furry hats at the Palace gates, and the increasing amount of champagne I need to apply as leg-opener these days.
A. Pilot wishes to acknowledge and thank Gary Jones for the structure of this report.
Last edited by helmet fire; 7th Mar 2003 at 03:00.
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Mr SKYWOLF;
I take it that you are not fully knowledgeable about the procedures the helicopter industry observes when flying over London or anywhere else for that matter. I suggest you research this further thus allowing you to make an informed judgement in the future. Consider yourself only mildly savaged!
If you would like to pose any questions, I, or Im sure any helicopter operator would be happy to help in the interests of reassuring the public about our industry. Send me a PM if you have any questions.
HELMET FIRE;
I take it that you also are not a professional in the helicopter industry as nobody that I know of in this game could produce something that creative and amusing! OUTSTANDING!!!
And of course, well done for countering this paranoia about flying over London, with a scenario that we are far more likely to experience.
I take it that you are not fully knowledgeable about the procedures the helicopter industry observes when flying over London or anywhere else for that matter. I suggest you research this further thus allowing you to make an informed judgement in the future. Consider yourself only mildly savaged!
If you would like to pose any questions, I, or Im sure any helicopter operator would be happy to help in the interests of reassuring the public about our industry. Send me a PM if you have any questions.
HELMET FIRE;
I take it that you also are not a professional in the helicopter industry as nobody that I know of in this game could produce something that creative and amusing! OUTSTANDING!!!
And of course, well done for countering this paranoia about flying over London, with a scenario that we are far more likely to experience.
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Interesting that the Mirror quoted the Commissioner of the Mteropolitan Police, speaking in a different context. This month's AOPA General Aviation mag has a feature on the Commissioner, He's an enthusiastic high hour PPL with, amongst other things, a share in a Jet Provost.
BTW, the AOPA mag is now excellent.
SKYWOLF
I assume you don't fly helicopters.
Clue: Single-engine helicopters flying over London have to fly along the river.
BTW, the AOPA mag is now excellent.
SKYWOLF
I assume you don't fly helicopters.
Clue: Single-engine helicopters flying over London have to fly along the river.
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Train ride to hell
This is amazing, I got on the train to London and a bloke asked to see if I had paid my fare, no checks of my bags, not even a question about if I packed them myself, and not only that, he looked not at all interested. Now Simon, being the mid twenties guy that he is, asked whats in the bag? do not endanger my aircraft, ( put it in the back ) and is a proffesional pilot, perhaps the Mirror should concentrate on tits and arse which is the only reason why I might sneak a look at a raggy old copy.
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In reply to Skywolfs post in my opinion the difference between flying a helicopter over London and a helicopter over Washington is one city has hysteria and paranoia created by the media to contend with, and its not London.
The UK has lived with terrorism for many years, read IRA etc etc, whereas the US recently began to experience what the UK public has been experiencing for years. Rather than be practical and open minded, organisations such as the TSA have just shut everything down, with some ridiculous rules that are amazing to say the least. I have spoken to numerous ENG pilots who when they get a notam closing off some area, they call the number on there and are transferred to 10 different departments, yet no one will make a decision and say yes you can or no you cant. These Government flunkies dont even have to justify closing off airspace, they just do it. Talking to the EMS pilots and if they have to do a medevac job which even remotely looks like its going towards the White House, they have a list of numbers they need to call which could double as the Los Angeles telephone book.
However in the UK its a different story where they have realistic rules and regs and in most cases trust the local helicopter operators to uphold them.
Anyway thats my opinion.
Oh and by the way you will probably find that Helmet Fire was sitting down, feet up somewhere, penning his memoirs while the TV crews were off doing the real work.
All Blacks
The UK has lived with terrorism for many years, read IRA etc etc, whereas the US recently began to experience what the UK public has been experiencing for years. Rather than be practical and open minded, organisations such as the TSA have just shut everything down, with some ridiculous rules that are amazing to say the least. I have spoken to numerous ENG pilots who when they get a notam closing off some area, they call the number on there and are transferred to 10 different departments, yet no one will make a decision and say yes you can or no you cant. These Government flunkies dont even have to justify closing off airspace, they just do it. Talking to the EMS pilots and if they have to do a medevac job which even remotely looks like its going towards the White House, they have a list of numbers they need to call which could double as the Los Angeles telephone book.
However in the UK its a different story where they have realistic rules and regs and in most cases trust the local helicopter operators to uphold them.
Anyway thats my opinion.
Oh and by the way you will probably find that Helmet Fire was sitting down, feet up somewhere, penning his memoirs while the TV crews were off doing the real work.
All Blacks
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Flying Over London
Dear PPrune UK Members
I was talking with Mark Ogden earlier who is going to be writing a story about the recent "tabloid journalism" article about the security scare of flying over London, which has been often referred to in this forum. The angle of the story is to counter all the stupid comments this Mirror reporter has made and highlight the need to have helicopter corridors, access to London metro areas etc. The story will also highlight the valuable roles that helicopters play in and around London from EMS to ENG to Police to general charter and moving VIPS.
If any of you would consider adding your input to the story please drop me a PM as it would all be very helpful. All those who give their two cents worth can remain anonymous and will just be quoted as an industry source.
Thought it might give the industry there an opportunity to have their say.
AB
I was talking with Mark Ogden earlier who is going to be writing a story about the recent "tabloid journalism" article about the security scare of flying over London, which has been often referred to in this forum. The angle of the story is to counter all the stupid comments this Mirror reporter has made and highlight the need to have helicopter corridors, access to London metro areas etc. The story will also highlight the valuable roles that helicopters play in and around London from EMS to ENG to Police to general charter and moving VIPS.
If any of you would consider adding your input to the story please drop me a PM as it would all be very helpful. All those who give their two cents worth can remain anonymous and will just be quoted as an industry source.
Thought it might give the industry there an opportunity to have their say.
AB
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
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The Mirror and their Journo's should stick to Queer MPs or MSPs Samantha's boobbies, and Kylies arse!
Most Journo's are morons , most of them are Tw**s and they believe they have a God given right to write the " Truth" spelt CRAP!
Sorry, spleen vented, hypertension now gone, time for work.
PR-B
Most Journo's are morons , most of them are Tw**s and they believe they have a God given right to write the " Truth" spelt CRAP!
Sorry, spleen vented, hypertension now gone, time for work.
PR-B
Join Date: Feb 2003
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All-Blacks
It's a great idea - in principle. However (and I don't speak as an industry insider - I'm a computer programmer who's written an aviation-specific database product), I notice from your profile that you only joined PPRuNe on the same day as you posted this. I don't know who Mark Ogden is (bound to be somebody famous as everyone will now point out). There are large warnings at the bottom of lots of the pages saying 'people may not be who they purport to be'.
How do we know you aren't the Daily Mirror, planning some vicious follow-up? ("Extensive checks revealed that NONE of BHH's JetRangers are RVSM-compliant!").
I apologise profusely if you're genuine - but you take my point?
It's a great idea - in principle. However (and I don't speak as an industry insider - I'm a computer programmer who's written an aviation-specific database product), I notice from your profile that you only joined PPRuNe on the same day as you posted this. I don't know who Mark Ogden is (bound to be somebody famous as everyone will now point out). There are large warnings at the bottom of lots of the pages saying 'people may not be who they purport to be'.
How do we know you aren't the Daily Mirror, planning some vicious follow-up? ("Extensive checks revealed that NONE of BHH's JetRangers are RVSM-compliant!").
I apologise profusely if you're genuine - but you take my point?
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Hilico
Actually I have been a member here off an on for quite a white but always get myself kicked out for some reason or another. I had another login that I had trouble finding my password for so decided to use the same login with a hyphen in the middle.
I publish a helicopter trade magazine, that I am not allowed to mention here, because I will again get kicked off, even though others freely talk about various other mags, but they who own the board make the rules as they go so no point in arguing.
The story was an idea to help promote the helo industry side of the viewpoint but to date havent had any feedback from anyone so probably not going to go forward with it anyway.
Can see your point about knowing who people are by their login and agree with you. Dont worry not with the Express or mirror etc.
AB
Actually I have been a member here off an on for quite a white but always get myself kicked out for some reason or another. I had another login that I had trouble finding my password for so decided to use the same login with a hyphen in the middle.
I publish a helicopter trade magazine, that I am not allowed to mention here, because I will again get kicked off, even though others freely talk about various other mags, but they who own the board make the rules as they go so no point in arguing.
The story was an idea to help promote the helo industry side of the viewpoint but to date havent had any feedback from anyone so probably not going to go forward with it anyway.
Can see your point about knowing who people are by their login and agree with you. Dont worry not with the Express or mirror etc.
AB
If Mark Ogden is the bloke who did Discovery channel's ' A Chopper is Born', I can think of no-one less suitable to put forward a meaningful and coherant argument on the benefits of operating helicopters over London. On the other hand, if I've got the wrong guy; please accept my apologies and ignore this post. J
All-Blacks, there is a press liaison officer at RAF St Mawgan who can give you statistics as to how often the UK SAR force fly critically ill patients into London Hospitals to get the expert care without which they would not survive.
The Daily Mirror should run a scare story by sitting under the Heathrow approach path and counting the number of aircraft landing there in a day - will they campaign to shut Heathrow? course not. The story was a space filler on a slow news day written by a hack (probably in a pub somewhere) under pressure from his editor - I am surprised that anyone has taken it seriously. Now if they could just get someone from Corrie to crash an R22 into the Eastenders set, then we might have a story
The Daily Mirror should run a scare story by sitting under the Heathrow approach path and counting the number of aircraft landing there in a day - will they campaign to shut Heathrow? course not. The story was a space filler on a slow news day written by a hack (probably in a pub somewhere) under pressure from his editor - I am surprised that anyone has taken it seriously. Now if they could just get someone from Corrie to crash an R22 into the Eastenders set, then we might have a story