New Zealand - Training Schools and Job Prospects
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Im like you turkey, and i find myself asking the same question, where are all these new pilots going?, you go into any student loan funded flight school and they are getting churned out, not saying the training is bad, just saying the student loan scheme has provided easy access to funds and enabled a lot of pilots to get trained up. If the loan scheme was not around the number of new pilots would fall of dramatically, which in turn would lead to fewer pilots and greater opportunity of jobs for the pilots paying their own way as it was before the loan scheme.
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Sorry Peely, I thought I had answered the question.
So that the customer (trainee pilot) can choose a school who provide the best service and product. That is assuming that the customers number one aim is to get a job in the industry.
I wholeheartedly agree that employment decisions are most often based on a persons attitude, professionalism and ability to get on with people rather than hands and feet piloting ability. However this has no relevance to the customers selection of training provider.
As to the indication that the proposed change to part 141 will provide any measures that will help in this regard, I have yet to see evidence of that. What measures will it provide that will give a prospective customer an informed decision on who to train with?
Part 141 will, as I understand it, demand a minimum standard that the training provider must meet in order to be able to provide the training. This will at least set a minimum standard for all training providers, which may or may not be a good thing, however it will still provide no more distinction between the below average, the average and the above average training providers. No different from Part 135 now...
Just my thoughts....
So that the customer (trainee pilot) can choose a school who provide the best service and product. That is assuming that the customers number one aim is to get a job in the industry.
I wholeheartedly agree that employment decisions are most often based on a persons attitude, professionalism and ability to get on with people rather than hands and feet piloting ability. However this has no relevance to the customers selection of training provider.
As to the indication that the proposed change to part 141 will provide any measures that will help in this regard, I have yet to see evidence of that. What measures will it provide that will give a prospective customer an informed decision on who to train with?
Part 141 will, as I understand it, demand a minimum standard that the training provider must meet in order to be able to provide the training. This will at least set a minimum standard for all training providers, which may or may not be a good thing, however it will still provide no more distinction between the below average, the average and the above average training providers. No different from Part 135 now...
Just my thoughts....
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Helikiwi
You were doing well until this point: "greater opportunity of jobs for the pilots paying their own way as it was before the loan scheme.
It is a loan, not a grant. The money still has to be paid back. I grant you that the interest rate and repayment commitments are favourable - even in these times of low interest rates. However, it is not the free ride that you seem to be implying.
Yes indeed there are some who lack the aptitude to make a decent, or safe, career out of being a helicopter pilot who have got student loans to train.
However, let me assure I have met some who have been able to "pay their own way" without batting an eyelid who fit into the very same catergory.
Perhaps the issue is one of revising the number of fully funded training places n these hard times.
TK
You were doing well until this point: "greater opportunity of jobs for the pilots paying their own way as it was before the loan scheme.
It is a loan, not a grant. The money still has to be paid back. I grant you that the interest rate and repayment commitments are favourable - even in these times of low interest rates. However, it is not the free ride that you seem to be implying.
Yes indeed there are some who lack the aptitude to make a decent, or safe, career out of being a helicopter pilot who have got student loans to train.
However, let me assure I have met some who have been able to "pay their own way" without batting an eyelid who fit into the very same catergory.
Perhaps the issue is one of revising the number of fully funded training places n these hard times.
TK
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Well it doesn't matter which way you look at it. The industry is flooded with helicopter pilots. Try explaining it to these guys that are in training now. Half of them have got other trades they can drop back to and go and do but how does this help the debt?? The rest draw an even bigger loan and go do either instructor, agriculture or more type ratings. Theres thousands of dollars being spent!! and to be no further ahead. These guys that have recently completed their training are frustrated and ripped off. Whilst in the meantime some training establishments have turned into sausage factories to help pay their way through these tough financial times. Thus, worsening the situation for everyone concerned. Regardless of the induction checks that have to be carried out prior to their training, it all boils down to the dollars and cents for the private training establishments and the polytechs with the funding. Money was always the reason. Its got nothing to do with the individuals themselves.
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TK
I understand it;s a loan, im still paying off mine which i took out prior 12 years ago which was nothing to do with heli flying. The point is if you stay in NZ the interest cost is written off thanks to the last labour govt. That in effect is an interest free loan of $80k to do your training. Once you go overseas you forfiet the interest free benefit.
Heck if it was around when i started heli training i would most probably used it too. The point is it is very easy access and the interest free portion if you stay in NZ is a great incentive for students to not head off overseas.
Having said that i agree you can get plonkers wether they pay for it themselves or get a SL.
I understand it;s a loan, im still paying off mine which i took out prior 12 years ago which was nothing to do with heli flying. The point is if you stay in NZ the interest cost is written off thanks to the last labour govt. That in effect is an interest free loan of $80k to do your training. Once you go overseas you forfiet the interest free benefit.
Heck if it was around when i started heli training i would most probably used it too. The point is it is very easy access and the interest free portion if you stay in NZ is a great incentive for students to not head off overseas.
Having said that i agree you can get plonkers wether they pay for it themselves or get a SL.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The thing about student loans, or any loan for that matter, is that the borrower has to make a conscious choice to take out the loan in the first place. Either way, everybody pays.
For some, it's an enabler to a career in an industry in which they will serve long and contribute much. For others, it's merely going to be a big debt they begrudgingly repay feeling foolish for themselves that they should have known better than to start in the first place.
Regardless of the source of funding, those that should move forward in the industry probably will while those that have wasted their time and money will be 'weeded' out eventually... some early on in their 'careers' and others a little later.
It's about attitude, preparedness, work ethic and people skills. Everybody's heard that all before, I know. It's also absolutely true.
GP
For some, it's an enabler to a career in an industry in which they will serve long and contribute much. For others, it's merely going to be a big debt they begrudgingly repay feeling foolish for themselves that they should have known better than to start in the first place.
Regardless of the source of funding, those that should move forward in the industry probably will while those that have wasted their time and money will be 'weeded' out eventually... some early on in their 'careers' and others a little later.
It's about attitude, preparedness, work ethic and people skills. Everybody's heard that all before, I know. It's also absolutely true.
GP
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Originally Posted by dragman
It's not just Italian pilots that don't look further than their back-yard for jobs
I pay my CPL with my money, I work hard every day.
I am not searching the best work, with the best salary, in the best place.
I am only searching a work to get started, because I know the effort and passion that you need to become a pilot, and I yes I love it.
I read all this posts, and I'm realizing, that probably there like in Italy and in europe and probably all over the word, there are many pilots who complain about work, but they never really try to find one.
Probably I am not right, I do not want to offend any of you, but It seemed so to me.
NZ is your home so nobody can know the situation better than you.
This is the reason why I asked my questions here.
By Matteo
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Matello, Pilots ARE trying very hard to get jobs all over the world. The jobs just simply aint out there for them. Some companies over the last few years invented jobs within their organisations to help these guys but with the economic times now,theres nothing. In New Zealand the situation is exploding as all training is paid for by the governament. There are literally hundreds of guys out there now that are trained up with no jobs. They were told prior to commencing their training that there are a demand for pilots in the industry. But they for got to say that the demand was for experienced pilots. In the meantime they continue on. This country cannot afford such a huge debt!. The young pilots themselves are going door knocking from company to company looking for work, not just within New Zealand but overseas as well. Other countries prefer to take on their own pilots before they take on foreigners and so the story goes on. The argument is, the student loan system in New Zealand needs to STOP.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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matteolo, read my post again, I'm on your side!
sorry, didn't mean to revive the thread.....
From Matteolo....Also here in Italy there are many Pilots that have 1000 h and no work because they don't want to move from their home, they want to earn lots money, they don't want to work during sunday....................
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Slab-wing to fling-wing
Guys (& girls?)
I'm a fixed wing pilot & like most have(am) entertained(ing) the idea of a period of heli-flying for which I have a few questions for the high timers relating to future job opportunities -
How beneficial is prior fixed wing industry experience?, (couple of thousand turbine hours, instrument rating/time, remote experience etc?)
How detrimental would it be for job prospects buying into & training with a syndicate as apposed to the Harveys/Bowlers/Wakelins etc (in an effort to keep the costs down).
Any/all info would be greatly appreciated
lineboy
p.s - first one to pm me with a job offer gets a box of speights
I'm a fixed wing pilot & like most have(am) entertained(ing) the idea of a period of heli-flying for which I have a few questions for the high timers relating to future job opportunities -
How beneficial is prior fixed wing industry experience?, (couple of thousand turbine hours, instrument rating/time, remote experience etc?)
How detrimental would it be for job prospects buying into & training with a syndicate as apposed to the Harveys/Bowlers/Wakelins etc (in an effort to keep the costs down).
Any/all info would be greatly appreciated
lineboy
p.s - first one to pm me with a job offer gets a box of speights
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Regarding your fixed-wing experience, it depends on what area of the helicopter industry you want to head into. If you've a reasonable amount of IF time, it's possible that some two-crew operators would look favourably at you. As for the rest, you'll get some pretty varied responses, especially if you're only offering speights. Confines in a chopper are a whole different kettle of fish to strip work in a fixed wing.
Last edited by dragman; 27th Jul 2009 at 10:25. Reason: bad english!!
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Where are the jobs??
gained my CPL H last year ....the quanity of jobs was talked up by instructors I talked to at the school before I joined, Now I have a $100000 student loan and will have to go overseas to find work. If I had been told straight up on how many jobs there are out there I would have gone direct to fixed wing. I admit flying helicopters is the best thing I have found and really enjoy it, now I am self funding a CPL A and hopefully gain ATPL papers. An earlier thread said people arn't looking past thier backyard however I looked at going to Australia and the amount of negative atitude I got fro pilots there made it real uncomfortable to look that way. Some of us want to work off our loan here.
I would love to work in the states and do the field I love there but even there jobs are hard to come by
I would love to work in the states and do the field I love there but even there jobs are hard to come by
Perhaps a lot of this could have been avoided if those seeking loans had to self fund themselves to PPL standard first.
This would have weeded out the "that would be cool" crowd before tax payers money was handed out...
A student loan is not a bad thing, but handing huge sums of money to those who can't be bothered saving to at least fund the first 40-50 hours is just crazy.
This would have weeded out the "that would be cool" crowd before tax payers money was handed out...
A student loan is not a bad thing, but handing huge sums of money to those who can't be bothered saving to at least fund the first 40-50 hours is just crazy.
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Don't discount the possibility that your first job in aviation may not be as a line pilot. Mine wasn't, and neither was a number of other pilots I know. If you're not prepared to load, work in the front office, make the coffee or whatever needs to be done, rest assured somebody else will be.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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I'm just wondering how hard new CPL's in NZ have looked for a job before stating "theres no jobs here I'm off overseas" there are jobs out there for new licences in NZ to get a start they may not be flying ones straight away and they may "only" be in 44s but remember most of the people that are flying in NZ started here....things at the moment are like they were when I started my licence in 1999 meaning you had to travel the country and knock on doors and chase every whisper of a job I worked on the ground for a couple of years and made the most of the time building contacts then was in the right place at the right time and got a job offer from another company so what Im trying to say is its not an impossible task with a little work and new guys shouldnt give up on NZ so quickly
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I have been looking for anything, from ferry flights to ground work, even cleaning the helicopters part time. I have had answers from we have just hired, we are downsizing to sorry don't hire girls. Most of the people I trained with have family in the industry and will workwith them, others are heading overseas straight away as they put it " so they don't have to pay back the loan" I however am aiming at paying off my loan asap them go overseas. Well that is the plan, so yes I have travelled alot and door knocked. Gone up and down the country at least twice. Pretty much everyone I talked to say they arn't ken on taking on low hour pilots.
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Many of the positions - be it flying or ground staff - may only be required for the start of the summer season, so it won't be long before companies start hiring. I would suggest calling again, and again, and probably again, between now and Oct/Nov. Concentrate on places like Fox and Franz that have high tourist numbers (and helicopters of course). Now is the time to be racking up your phone bill.
Think about where you live. If you really want to get a job. Live in a place where there are beaucoup de helicopters, and get an intrim job whilst you start building contacts.
I'd think again before funding a CPL(A) - what makes you think you'll be in a better position than you are now? That cash could come in handy if you need to travel, buy a rating (last resort on principle if you ask me) etc..
As for others going overseas to escape paying their loan - well we've touched that subject before, but Mr English will find them one day!
Good luck, but don't fall in to the trap of feeling like the world and the industry are against you. Many of us were also told that there were no jobs.
Think about where you live. If you really want to get a job. Live in a place where there are beaucoup de helicopters, and get an intrim job whilst you start building contacts.
I'd think again before funding a CPL(A) - what makes you think you'll be in a better position than you are now? That cash could come in handy if you need to travel, buy a rating (last resort on principle if you ask me) etc..
As for others going overseas to escape paying their loan - well we've touched that subject before, but Mr English will find them one day!
Good luck, but don't fall in to the trap of feeling like the world and the industry are against you. Many of us were also told that there were no jobs.
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When will people learn. There is still no easy way into the pilots seat. Work hard to earn the money to learn. Work harder to impress the boss as a loader. Work even harder when you get an opportunity to fly frost etc. Then When you get into the bloody hot seat you discover that it is hard work most days to be a pilot. There are no short cuts...