Helicopter crash New York City

[helispotter]

Originally Posted by EESDL

Rumour has it that bird remains found in cockpit…..

EESDL: Are you referring to the New York crash subject of this thread, or one of the more recent 206L crashes mentioned in the thread more recently? There had been reports of flock of birds in some of the early media reports about the New York accident. And how 'reliable' is the rumour?

[USAFPAVEHAWKDRIVER]

Has anyone seen or heard a new update on this Hudson River B206-L4 inflight breakup? The silence is deafening after this much time. I tried emailing the lead investigator Leah Read but her NTSB email bounced back undeliverable.

[wrench1]

Originally Posted by USAFPAVEHAWKDRIVER

Has anyone seen or heard a new update on this Hudson River B206-L4 inflight breakup? The silence is deafening after this much time.

Not really. Its only been 9 months and given the complexity of the accident these types of investigations can require additional time to complete. For example, there are fatal accidents from 2024 that only have Preliminary Reports issued. The next step is the release of the Public Docket and Factual Reports.

[helispotter]

With a year passing since the 10 April 2025 loss of LongRanger N216MH with its pilot and five passengers, there has been some news coverage concerning proposals for greater US regulation of helicopter tour operators. I am not quite sure what the intention is for those pushing for this as the various media items are not very clear, for example:

You Tube

Aside from the Preliminary report released on 7 May, no further updates on the NTSB website for this case:

https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket/?NTSBNumber=ERA25MA171

Without an NTSB report, this accident can't so far be attributed to maintenance shortcoming, though some earlier reports the LongRanger was seen to have larger than normal oscillations of its tail boom while on the pad in the leadup to the accident should have prompted some investigation by the then operator.

Also still no further information on the rotor breakup of C-GSHF in Canada on 14 July 2025 other than already previously discussed here. Since then, there are other LongRanger incidents that need to be resolved or the circumstances reported, search ASN Wikibase. For example: ZK-IGD in new Zealand on 27 July 2025, ZK-IWZ also in New Zealand on 13 Dec 2025 and N5017G in the USA on 4 April 2026. That isn't even looking back to cases prior to N216MH, some also discussed in Rotorheads forum.

[PPRuNeUser469990]

I can't imagine any 206 operators are using Van Horn blades now

[wrench1]

Originally Posted by helispotter

Without an NTSB report, this accident can't so far be attributed to maintenance shortcoming, though some earlier reports the LongRanger was seen to have larger than normal oscillations of its tail boom while on the pad in the leadup to the accident should have prompted some investigation by the then operator.

FYI: as noted above, large tailboom "oscillations" on 206L models at idle can be common as it is a function of MR hub trunnion centering and/or chordwise blade static alignment regardless of main rotor blade type.

Originally Posted by hargreaves99

I can't imagine any 206 operators are using Van Horn blades now

There are still a number of operators using both the L model main and tail rotor VH blades.

[SunofAtom]

Originally Posted by hargreaves99

I can't imagine any 206 operators are using Van Horn blades now

That is definitely not correct. I work for what I have to believe is the largest US operator of 206L aircraft, and many if not most have VH main blades. They don’t disassemble in flight just for having VH blades.

My guess (based on conversations with A&Ps much smarter than myself), is fatigue cracks at station 145 that went undetected, likely accelerated by the conditions that tours are typically flown. Lap after lap of taking off at or near mtow, firm plants back at the pad, day after day. Could the VH hop be exacerbating this weakness? Possibly, but the problem is already there.

[The Sultan]

Originally Posted by SunofAtom

They don’t disassemble in flight just for having VH blades.
.

They do when a significant part of said VH blade departs in flight.

[RVDT]

Originally Posted by SunofAtom

That is definitely not correct. I work for what I have to believe is the largest US operator of 206L aircraft, and many if not most have VH main blades. They don’t disassemble in flight just for having VH blades.

My guess (based on conversations with A&Ps much smarter than myself), is fatigue cracks at station 145 that went undetected, likely accelerated by the conditions that tours are typically flown. Lap after lap of taking off at or near mtow, firm plants back at the pad, day after day. Could the VH hop be exacerbating this weakness? Possibly, but the problem is already there.

TC and FAA issued a Safety Bulletin back in 2019 but it is not part of any inspection schedule so...............................results may vary.
SAIB: SW-19-18

[EESDL]

Originally Posted by helispotter

EESDL: Are you referring to the New York crash subject of this thread, or one of the more recent 206L crashes mentioned in the thread more recently? There had been reports of flock of birds in some of the early media reports about the New York accident. And how 'reliable' is the rumour?

206L Hudson
Reliable

[helispotter]

Originally Posted by EESDL

206L Hudson
Reliable

Ok. Looking at past accident summaries on ASN, it was surprising how many examples of helicopters being taken out by bird strikes there were. In some cases birds impacted with pitch links which unsurprisingly creates a massive upset. In at least one 206L case in Australia (VH-ZMF), a bird strike is suggested to have startled the pilot resulting in an in-flight break-up.

Makes a case for polycarbonate windscreens and better protected pitch links. I wonder what protection the rotor head cowling on HX50 might offer against a bird strike?

[wrench1]

Originally Posted by helispotter

Makes a case for polycarbonate windscreens and better protected pitch links. I wonder what protection the rotor head cowling on HX50 might offer against a bird strike?

No extra protection. There are instances of birds penetrating other types of cowling like the servo cowl on a 206 which brought down an Air Evac 206 here. However, there have been other mitigative steps recommended over the years to reduce bird strikes like FAA SAIB AIR-21-17R1. But none involve protecting the flight controls at a higher level.

Originally Posted by SunofAtom

My guess (based on conversations with A&Ps much smarter than myself), is fatigue cracks at station 145 that went undetected, likely accelerated by the conditions that tours are typically flown.

Curious. What specific item are you referencing at STA 145?

[ShyTorque]

A big enough bird has enough mass to bring down almost any helicopter. Some will recall the USAF Pave Hawk tragically brought down after hitting geese in Norfolk, U.K. in Jan 2014, with the loss of its four crew.

[212man]

Originally Posted by ShyTorque

A big enough bird has enough mass to bring down almost any helicopter. Some will recall the USAF Pave Hawk tragically brought down after hitting geese in Norfolk, U.K. in Jan 2014, with the loss of its four crew.

Yes, the certification standard (CS or FAR 29.631) states a 1kg bird (at Vh), so anything above that and all bets are off.

[212man]

Originally Posted by RVDT

TC and FAA issued a Safety Bulletin back in 2019 but it is not part of any inspection schedule so...............................results may vary.
SAIB: SW-19-18

Seems a bit of a red herring:

At this time, the airworthiness concern is not an unsafe condition that would warrant airworthiness directive (AD) action

[SansAnhedral]

Originally Posted by SunofAtom

That is definitely not correct. I work for what I have to believe is the largest US operator of 206L aircraft, and many if not most have VH main blades. They don’t disassemble in flight just for having VH blades.

The blades themselves absolutely have disassembled in flight, and will continue to. The design and (lack of proper) testing approach is wholly uncertifiable historically and the FAA should be ashamed of its approval.