HAA fatal 4-2-23 Alabama EC-130
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HAA fatal 4-2-23 Alabama EC-130
https://www.al.com/news/2023/04/medical-helicopter-crashes-in-shelby-county.html
Last edited by havoc; 3rd Apr 2023 at 14:39.
Not sure how accurate those ADS-B datapoints are but nonetheless looks like an interesting flight path towards the end there. Especially that acceleration in the last few seconds. The initial setup for the recon to the off airport landing site looks normal. Anyone know what the wx was at the time? Given the time of the day there was plenty of daylight left.
Last edited by verticalspin; 3rd Apr 2023 at 20:23.
If you go to street view of that address at google maps and look in the other direction than in the posted photo you will see a power line crossing he Road that is quite low to the ground (normal minimum height for such lines must be 13' 6" by standard requirements) that appears to be the service line to that address.
The main line appears to be on the uphill wooded edge parallel to the roadway with the one line crossing perpendicular to the main line.
With all of the open pasture land adjacent to the roadway and the trees on both sides of the road.....why would a landing LZ have been set up on the road and not in the adjacent field?
I have made many such landings and even. had the Ground Units set one up on the road I would have requested they send one ground vehicle down the driveway into the open area....do a required recon (part of which is looking for the presence of wires and other obstructions) and I would have have them park a vehicle on the driveway opposite the direction from which the Patient would be arriving.
Until we know more about all this then we are merely pontificating upon the cause.
What is interesting is the fact that there was a fire of some significance that very could have a role in the survivability of the crash.
Did this aircraft have crashworthy fuel cell(s)? What caused the fire and how was it fueled....Jet fuel, O2 or some other flammable material?
The main line appears to be on the uphill wooded edge parallel to the roadway with the one line crossing perpendicular to the main line.
With all of the open pasture land adjacent to the roadway and the trees on both sides of the road.....why would a landing LZ have been set up on the road and not in the adjacent field?
I have made many such landings and even. had the Ground Units set one up on the road I would have requested they send one ground vehicle down the driveway into the open area....do a required recon (part of which is looking for the presence of wires and other obstructions) and I would have have them park a vehicle on the driveway opposite the direction from which the Patient would be arriving.
Until we know more about all this then we are merely pontificating upon the cause.
What is interesting is the fact that there was a fire of some significance that very could have a role in the survivability of the crash.
Did this aircraft have crashworthy fuel cell(s)? What caused the fire and how was it fueled....Jet fuel, O2 or some other flammable material?
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"Just a pilot"
If you go to street view of that address at google maps and look in the other direction than in the posted photo you will see a power line crossing he Road that is quite low to the ground (normal minimum height for such lines must be 13' 6" by standard requirements) that appears to be the service line to that address.
The main line appears to be on the uphill wooded edge parallel to the roadway with the one line crossing perpendicular to the main line.
With all of the open pasture land adjacent to the roadway and the trees on both sides of the road.....why would a landing LZ have been set up on the road and not in the adjacent field?
I have made many such landings and even. had the Ground Units set one up on the road I would have requested they send one ground vehicle down the driveway into the open area....do a required recon (part of which is looking for the presence of wires and other obstructions) and I would have have them park a vehicle on the driveway opposite the direction from which the Patient would be arriving.
Until we know more about all this then we are merely pontificating upon the cause.
What is interesting is the fact that there was a fire of some significance that very could have a role in the survivability of the crash.
Did this aircraft have crashworthy fuel cell(s)? What caused the fire and how was it fueled....Jet fuel, O2 or some other flammable material?
The main line appears to be on the uphill wooded edge parallel to the roadway with the one line crossing perpendicular to the main line.
With all of the open pasture land adjacent to the roadway and the trees on both sides of the road.....why would a landing LZ have been set up on the road and not in the adjacent field?
I have made many such landings and even. had the Ground Units set one up on the road I would have requested they send one ground vehicle down the driveway into the open area....do a required recon (part of which is looking for the presence of wires and other obstructions) and I would have have them park a vehicle on the driveway opposite the direction from which the Patient would be arriving.
Until we know more about all this then we are merely pontificating upon the cause.
What is interesting is the fact that there was a fire of some significance that very could have a role in the survivability of the crash.
Did this aircraft have crashworthy fuel cell(s)? What caused the fire and how was it fueled....Jet fuel, O2 or some other flammable material?
To which I add- have a vehicle parked under any wires crossing the road near proposed landing.
The EC130T2 are all fitted with CRFS from the factory. The tanks has self sealing fuelwents and fuellines if ripped, so I recon the fire was not fueled from the tank.
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Another photo of the scene.....not sure of the distance from the crash scene so the perspective might be distorting the view as there is what might be a cross line showing.
It appears the driveway is to the left side of the photo with the main line on the rights side.
It appears the driveway is to the left side of the photo with the main line on the rights side.
Devil 49's post describes what is pretty much a standard practice but as in everything Wires will kill you in an instant and even the very best ground crew can make a mistake in the dark while under stress to get the aircraft down on. the ground.
I used all of the lights on the aircraft including the Night Sun....angled it down like a landing light and widened the beam to be more of a flood light.....and tried to fly down the light in a slow steep approach.
On takeoff I pointed the Night Sun upwards and flew up the light beam again looking for wires.
As dependable as turbine engine are today my primary concern at night landing at Scenes was wires and not an engine failure.
All my EMS flying was done in Twins but before NVG's so White Light...bright white light was welcome.
Also....I required the Med Crew to devote their full attention to looking for obstructions and wires during landing in order to have three sets of eyes looking outside.
It was not unusual to get out and do a ground recon when possible.
I used all of the lights on the aircraft including the Night Sun....angled it down like a landing light and widened the beam to be more of a flood light.....and tried to fly down the light in a slow steep approach.
On takeoff I pointed the Night Sun upwards and flew up the light beam again looking for wires.
As dependable as turbine engine are today my primary concern at night landing at Scenes was wires and not an engine failure.
All my EMS flying was done in Twins but before NVG's so White Light...bright white light was welcome.
Also....I required the Med Crew to devote their full attention to looking for obstructions and wires during landing in order to have three sets of eyes looking outside.
It was not unusual to get out and do a ground recon when possible.
If that wire crossing the road is the one shown on google maps as being at the junction of Bear Creek Rd and Mountain Oak Drive, then something has happened to it - the google picture shows 3 wires, at normal height and with no significant bow in them.
The wire in the media picture looks like it is hanging down.
If they were approaching down the length of Bear Creek Rd they may have missed that wire crossing as it is partly hidden in the trees.
The wire in the media picture looks like it is hanging down.
If they were approaching down the length of Bear Creek Rd they may have missed that wire crossing as it is partly hidden in the trees.
What would you have done.....land on the road or out in the open field next to the road?
My EMS experience would be the open field using the drive way as the landing spot and have the ground EMS unit transport the patient to that spot.
It does appear landing on the road at the junction with the driveway would work if it was the intended landing site.
I have seen fences cut to facilitate that kind of access to a pasture or hay field when necessary.
I have also landed on road ways that had clear flat unobstructed access and afforded a satisfactory landing area.
The investigation will be able to determine the intended landing site and then be able to determine if the aircraft struck wires or not.
My EMS experience would be the open field using the drive way as the landing spot and have the ground EMS unit transport the patient to that spot.
It does appear landing on the road at the junction with the driveway would work if it was the intended landing site.
I have seen fences cut to facilitate that kind of access to a pasture or hay field when necessary.
I have also landed on road ways that had clear flat unobstructed access and afforded a satisfactory landing area.
The investigation will be able to determine the intended landing site and then be able to determine if the aircraft struck wires or not.
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What would you have done.....land on the road or out in the open field next to the road?
In something bigger I would definitely have gone into the field but perhaps there were livestock there - I'm sure we'll find out in due course.
What would you have done.....land on the road or out in the open field next to the road?
My EMS experience would be the open field using the drive way as the landing spot and have the ground EMS unit transport the patient to that spot.
It does appear landing on the road at the junction with the driveway would work if it was the intended landing site.
I have seen fences cut to facilitate that kind of access to a pasture or hay field when necessary.
I have also landed on road ways that had clear flat unobstructed access and afforded a satisfactory landing area.
The investigation will be able to determine the intended landing site and then be able to determine if the aircraft struck wires or not.
My EMS experience would be the open field using the drive way as the landing spot and have the ground EMS unit transport the patient to that spot.
It does appear landing on the road at the junction with the driveway would work if it was the intended landing site.
I have seen fences cut to facilitate that kind of access to a pasture or hay field when necessary.
I have also landed on road ways that had clear flat unobstructed access and afforded a satisfactory landing area.
The investigation will be able to determine the intended landing site and then be able to determine if the aircraft struck wires or not.
Easy from the armchair, but looking at the pictures I would have approached steep and slow to the clear area between the dam and the road and then hover taxied as required for landing on the driveway, even between the dams. There doesn't appear to be too much slope from the imagery. It's great access for a road ambulance to come to you.
If I have any doubts, I'll even pull up in about a 200' hover and have a really good scan before proceeding in steep and slow. If power is an issue I can then fly away. As SASless says, engine failure should not be the prime concern here, wires/obstacles/dust and power margin should be.
Having said all that, who knows what caused the accident, and RIP to those two men.
Even with NVIS these days my mantra regarding supplemental aircraft light is find a reason to turn it OFF, rather than ON. Get plenty of white light out there to illuminate wires, improve general vision and assist if you have an NVIS failure. I turn it off rarely, usually only due to particles such as moisture, smoke or dust in the air.
Judicious use of the steerable landing light and often a white spotlight from the cabin helped spot those sneaky little wires that are often hidden in trees.
Lights not a factor in this case though, they had plenty of daylight left.
From the updated news report it seems one crew member survived so maybe answers will be forthcoming from her.
I note the pilot's age was 63, presumably single pilot commercial ops over the age of 60 is allowed in the USA?
https://www.al.com/news/2023/04/medi...by-county.html
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Yup, 20 years ago I was teaching people to use a mixture of white light and NVIS - there had previously been the mantra that the two should be mutually exclusive but the improvements in goggle technology had not been fully appreciated.
Judicious use of the steerable landing light and often a white spotlight from the cabin helped spot those sneaky little wires that are often hidden in trees.
Lights not a factor in this case though, they had plenty of daylight left.
From the updated news report it seems one crew member survived so maybe answers will be forthcoming from her.
I note the pilot's age was 63, presumably single pilot commercial ops over the age of 60 is allowed in the USA?
https://www.al.com/news/2023/04/medi...by-county.html
Judicious use of the steerable landing light and often a white spotlight from the cabin helped spot those sneaky little wires that are often hidden in trees.
Lights not a factor in this case though, they had plenty of daylight left.
From the updated news report it seems one crew member survived so maybe answers will be forthcoming from her.
I note the pilot's age was 63, presumably single pilot commercial ops over the age of 60 is allowed in the USA?
https://www.al.com/news/2023/04/medi...by-county.html
Indeed...Helicopter EMS Operations fall under US FAA Part 135 Air Taxi Regulations and OpSpecs issued as issued under the Part.
Airman Licensing is covered by US FAA Part 61.
Airmane Medical standards are covered by US FAA Part 61.
Airman Licensing is covered by US FAA Part 61.
Airmane Medical standards are covered by US FAA Part 61.
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I note the pilot's age was 63, presumably single pilot commercial ops over the age of 60 is allowed in the USA?