Two helicopters collide - Gold Coast, Queensland - Sea World 2/1/2023
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In the in flight video the right rear paaseenger tapping the pilot means that the ascending helicopter (VH-XHQ)was just below at starboard moments before impact This is diagonally opposite the pilot. At the beginning of the clip a left sided rear passenger can also be seen videoing indicating nothing untoward was apparent on the portside at level flight at least The damage to the cockpit of VH-XH9 with clean entry on starbord but shreds on portside exit indicate the rotor hit into starboard
The time of day meant that VH-XH9 may have been against the sun to the ascending helicopter just before impact . The fact that the craft were dark blue may have in effect camouflaged VH-XHQ against the water Either way the arriving/departing craft should have been looped in course and seperated in time so that cross over flightpaths would not have been possible .The investigation will focus on whether procedures were in place & if so whether they were followed .CASA seems quite deficient in preventative guidance for airspace regulation in uncontrolled airspace & specifically for helicopters - except with reference to helicopters visa vis fixed wing aircraft By contrast the Grand Canyon has a 150 page special flight rules area procedure manual and can handle 7 takeoffs simultaneously.
The time of day meant that VH-XH9 may have been against the sun to the ascending helicopter just before impact . The fact that the craft were dark blue may have in effect camouflaged VH-XHQ against the water Either way the arriving/departing craft should have been looped in course and seperated in time so that cross over flightpaths would not have been possible .The investigation will focus on whether procedures were in place & if so whether they were followed .CASA seems quite deficient in preventative guidance for airspace regulation in uncontrolled airspace & specifically for helicopters - except with reference to helicopters visa vis fixed wing aircraft By contrast the Grand Canyon has a 150 page special flight rules area procedure manual and can handle 7 takeoffs simultaneously.
...With two of us looking, it can be difficult to impossible to spot the traffic. And trust me, this is with lots of head movement and diligent “scanning”.
Is a phrase that can only be trotted out by someone without sin. (Or perhaps without experience, especially on how much traffic that person might have unknowingly missed.)
Is a phrase that can only be trotted out by someone without sin. (Or perhaps without experience, especially on how much traffic that person might have unknowingly missed.)
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It’s not that uncommon to be taking off into wind wind approaching downwind or vice versa due to the design of the pads or noise avoidance. In high volume movements this type of procedure can cause issues.
More than likely nothing to do with this incident. The point being there’s so many variables involved when finding the holes in the cheese. I have no doubt the investigation will find there will be numerous factors involved.
It’s important to remember we’re all human no one is perfect, every Pilot I know including myself have made mistakes and, if you haven’t you’re either full of **** or you not done much.
RIP to all the departed and my thoughts are with the driver of the aircraft that landed. We’ll done mate you did a good job getting your pax on the ground safe.
More than likely nothing to do with this incident. The point being there’s so many variables involved when finding the holes in the cheese. I have no doubt the investigation will find there will be numerous factors involved.
It’s important to remember we’re all human no one is perfect, every Pilot I know including myself have made mistakes and, if you haven’t you’re either full of **** or you not done much.
RIP to all the departed and my thoughts are with the driver of the aircraft that landed. We’ll done mate you did a good job getting your pax on the ground safe.
Spotting
Had several occasions of being warned that Concorde was going subsonic and descending through our level...did we ever see her? No bl@@dy chance..that's with three pairs of eyes and a weather radar..
It all boils down to what i said initially. What amounts to a busy airline, working on a nod and a wink for ATC.
If a Pilot needs to be tapped on the shoulder by a passenger, the Pilot shouldt be flying.
I wonder, would a Pilot Observer have been of value? Is it worth the loss of $150 a flight to be safer?
I wonder what the dead think.
It all boils down to what i said initially. What amounts to a busy airline, working on a nod and a wink for ATC.
If a Pilot needs to be tapped on the shoulder by a passenger, the Pilot shouldt be flying.
I wonder, would a Pilot Observer have been of value? Is it worth the loss of $150 a flight to be safer?
I wonder what the dead think.
Let the report come out in good time and I couldn't agree more that reducing the number of pax would in effect stuff up the tour industry and that in turn is likely to mean smaller machines to keep the cost down and thus the 130 not being used. Surely that's not in the best interest of all pax and crew?
In the in flight video the right rear paaseenger tapping the pilot means that the ascending helicopter (VH-XHQ)was just below at starboard moments before impact This is diagonally opposite the pilot. At the beginning of the clip a left sided rear passenger can also be seen videoing indicating nothing untoward was apparent on the portside at level flight at least The damage to the cockpit of VH-XH9 with clean entry on starbord but shreds on portside exit indicate the rotor hit into starboard
The time of day meant that VH-XH9 may have been against the sun to the ascending helicopter just before impact . The fact that the craft were dark blue may have in effect camouflaged VH-XHQ against the water Either way the arriving/departing craft should have been looped in course and seperated in time so that cross over flightpaths would not have been possible .The investigation will focus on whether procedures were in place & if so whether they were followed .CASA seems quite deficient in preventative guidance for airspace regulation in uncontrolled airspace & specifically for helicopters - except with reference to helicopters visa vis fixed wing aircraft By contrast the Grand Canyon has a 150 page special flight rules area procedure manual and can handle 7 takeoffs simultaneously.
The time of day meant that VH-XH9 may have been against the sun to the ascending helicopter just before impact . The fact that the craft were dark blue may have in effect camouflaged VH-XHQ against the water Either way the arriving/departing craft should have been looped in course and seperated in time so that cross over flightpaths would not have been possible .The investigation will focus on whether procedures were in place & if so whether they were followed .CASA seems quite deficient in preventative guidance for airspace regulation in uncontrolled airspace & specifically for helicopters - except with reference to helicopters visa vis fixed wing aircraft By contrast the Grand Canyon has a 150 page special flight rules area procedure manual and can handle 7 takeoffs simultaneously.
The ascending helicopter approached from the left (port side).
The ascending helicopter was not diagonally opposite the pilot as it was on the left side, which is also the side the pilot is seated.
I feel like you’ve watched a mirror image of the video.
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Bellringer - regards your earlier post - AS 350 and B412EP that were both ex-mil training contract with TAS Sentinel fitted, plus AS365 with the same but a bigger screen, also on mil contract.
As a basic application of right of way rules, since the aircraft on climbout had the other aircraft on its right, the aircraft in the cruise (preparing for landing) had the right of way.
Full opposite rudder
Your thoughts echo mine. I empathise with that passenger. I suspect for a long time they will ask themselves if they could have done more. They have no responsibility however survivors guilt is a nasty thing. While it might have been possible their reaction was natural and what most people would have done. Hindsight is 20/20
Your thoughts echo mine. I empathise with that passenger. I suspect for a long time they will ask themselves if they could have done more. They have no responsibility however survivors guilt is a nasty thing. While it might have been possible their reaction was natural and what most people would have done. Hindsight is 20/20
Last edited by Chock Puller; 5th Jan 2023 at 11:41. Reason: Stick to the subject at hand.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned for now is the sun position in relation to the two helicopters. Looking at the vision from inside the landing helicopter, it seems the sun is coming in from the pilots right, which would suggest the pilot taking off was flying into the sun.
I’m not a professional pilot, but my thoughts go out to everyone involved in this accident.
I’m not a professional pilot, but my thoughts go out to everyone involved in this accident.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned for now is the sun position in relation to the two helicopters. Looking at the vision from inside the landing helicopter, it seems the sun is coming in from the pilots right, which would suggest the pilot taking off was flying into the sun.
I’m not a professional pilot, but my thoughts go out to everyone involved in this accident.
I’m not a professional pilot, but my thoughts go out to everyone involved in this accident.
Check the shortness of the shadows in photos taken at the accident scene, linked on the first couple of pages here.
"Right, there is one just above me and to my right. Let's find him visually before I lift, or wait for him to pass first." - and reverting to standard eyes outside flying for the actual lift.
Maybe this is what the TAS system provides?
Looking at the onboard video, I'm thinking the relative positions of the two machines maybe keep the departing machine in the arriving pilot's blind spot behind the windscreen pillar pretty much most of the time. If he's not heard or missed a departure call from the other chopper, why would he be looking for one?
At least he'll be able to provide one side of the story.
At least he'll be able to provide one side of the story.
Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 5th Jan 2023 at 10:53.
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If a Pilot needs to be tapped on the shoulder by a passenger, the Pilot shouldt be flying.
I wonder, would a Pilot Observer have been of value? Is it worth the loss of $150 a flight to be safer?
I wonder, would a Pilot Observer have been of value? Is it worth the loss of $150 a flight to be safer?
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
As a basic application of right of way rules, since the aircraft on climbout had the other aircraft on its right, the aircraft in the cruise (preparing for landing) had the right of way.
The pilot did not seem like he was even remotely expecting the second helicopter from the left.
It is also possible that he was expecting the departing helicopter to have departed from one of the landing pads that the pilot of the landing helicopter was tracking to. This would place the helicopters on diverging tracks.
If that is what he was expecting, he would be looking to the right side or the South side of his machine for the departing helicopter which would track South. From the video, this appears to be the case.
The fact is that the departing helicopter departed from a helipad to the North of the intending landing pads for the landing helicopter put both helicopters on crossing tracks.
It’s all about angle of the dangle..
Along with route offsets,making unofficial pilot to pilot position points on vhf2 it was a way of supplementing safety especially when working ATC of HF…
Along with route offsets,making unofficial pilot to pilot position points on vhf2 it was a way of supplementing safety especially when working ATC of HF…
Well that it explains it then 🙂
I did dabble with the angle of the dangle, and zinging the ping, but couldn’t see a thing.
Fortunately, I’m blessed to have TCAS
I did dabble with the angle of the dangle, and zinging the ping, but couldn’t see a thing.
Fortunately, I’m blessed to have TCAS
Last edited by Torquetalk; 5th Jan 2023 at 15:10.