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Two helicopters collide - Gold Coast, Queensland - Sea World 2/1/2023

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Two helicopters collide - Gold Coast, Queensland - Sea World 2/1/2023

Old 6th Jan 2023, 13:32
  #261 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KRviator
I built and fly an RV-9, and to that end wear one of those 'police-style' tactical vests when I fly. It's got a bunch of goodies in various pockets, from my 406 PLB, first aid kit, laser pointer to a small survival kit, etc. It's not about "looking cool", but recognising the fact I do have a somewhat dangerous passion and I want to do all I can to tip the odds in my favour. It does generate an occasional question at the bowser, but so far as I'm concerned, we had 'em in Army Aviation where we had factory-built birds and professional maintainers - not just a plane some bloke put together in his back shed - and If I could get a helmet to fit under the canopy, I'd have no hesitation in wearing one of those too to better my chances of surviving a prang.

Statistically, the take-off and landing are more dangerous than cruise, and Sea World has their frequent operations down to a fine art - and I speak as a passenger on one of their longer joyflights a couple years back. But one must ask when does PPE (a helmet) become unpalatable in an OH&S context just because it's 'a passenger operation' - given there's documented history of birds coming through helicopter canopies including on the Gold Coast and helmets are proven to minimise injuries in even relatively minor accidents.

Given the choice of two identical operators, one with a pilot in a Nomex flying suit, work boots & helmet, the other in shirt sleeves, Rayban's and deck shoes, I'd pick the former every time, for the simple reason they're demonstrating not just saying they take safety seriously and 'at any cost' and go that little bit extra to try to make sure they go home to the wife & kids at the end of the day. But then again, the KRviatrix does frequently tell me I'm not right in the head so YMMV....
No one is questioning safety benefits helmet brings. But you are not normal everyday passenger.

Normal passenger would have 2 immediate question:
1. Where is my helmet?
2. Why do I need a helmet?
Those will be closely followed by next 2:
3. Wait a minute, why do a pilot need a helmet?
4. Maybe I should bail out of this?

Last edited by admikar; 6th Jan 2023 at 14:37.
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 13:52
  #262 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 212man
I can't imagine there will be much appetite to return the airframe to service!
Why not? I was involved with an operator where a Jet Ranger`s front was chewed by a Piper Arrow propeller all the way thru instrument panel. (Jet Ranger parked on apron, Piper pilot picking up a dropped ball pen from the floor while taxiing.) This Jet Ranger is still flying happily more than 25 years after the accident.
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 13:59
  #263 (permalink)  
 
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Was that incident world news? How many people died?
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 14:01
  #264 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk
Was that incident world news? How many people died?
Thanks - I thought it was obvious too!
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 14:04
  #265 (permalink)  
 
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Well the answer is
1. You are not flying it
2. You dont as you are not a pilot
3. If i cant see we die
4. Up to you
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 14:16
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gordy
Where do you get that from?

They were 150', one arriving, one departing.
I had read they were at 1500ft but the same principle applies. Unless they were taking off and landing from the same spot in reciprocal directions (no one ever does that - do they?) then how could there possibly not be a couple of hundred metres between them? At 150ft one is 200m from the pad decelerating and the other is 200m away, same direction, accelerating. Seperation should have been increasing!
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 14:38
  #267 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hughes500
Well the answer is
1. You are not flying it
2. You dont as you are not a pilot
3. If i cant see we die
4. Up to you
Isn't the idea to get customers in, not to drive them away?
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 16:09
  #268 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by admikar
Isn't the idea to get customers in, not to drive them away?
Seeing the pilot with a helmet should inspire confidence
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 17:37
  #269 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OvertHawk
In a maritime environment such as this and with a light plexiglass windscreen such as fitted to the 130 (which is not bird-resistant) I would wear a helmet with visor down for bird strike protection alone, never mind crash survivability.
it honestly should be a hard requirement from the authorities. Flying passengers, single pilot, low level in an aircraft without bird strike resistant windscreens and no AFCS should simply mandate a helmet. Just like riding a motorcycle on the street does.
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 17:44
  #270 (permalink)  
 
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I know of a few operators here in the rockies who's drivers wear helmets during tour flights...
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Old 6th Jan 2023, 23:55
  #271 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OvertHawk
In a maritime environment such as this and with a light plexiglass windscreen such as fitted to the 130 (which is not bird-resistant) I would wear a helmet with visor down for bird strike protection alone, never mind crash survivability.
Several good posts here regarding use of helmets by pilots. I have a vague memory of an article about helmet use by pilots of aircraft that also carry passengers. If I find it again I will post a copy or link.

In the meantime, Aviation Safety Digest 131 page 20 has the article "Nut Case" with photos of a mustering Bell 47G where rotors struck a tree before smashing through the top of the bubble and left a scrape on the pilots helmet. Article indicates he may well have been severely injured or dead without the helmet:

https://www.atsb.gov.au/sites/defaul...131_sum_86.pdf

Also ASD 132 Page 21 carried the article "I wouldn't be seen dead without my bone dome" which is also worth a read and is as relevant to some helicopter pilots as the ag aircraft pilot examples in the article:

https://www.atsb.gov.au/sites/defaul...132_aut_87.pdf

The ASD "Special Issue - Visual Flight" has an article "En route mid-air collisions how to avoid them" from page 22 to 25 with plenty of informative advice on scanning for other traffic and how eyes work:

https://www.atsb.gov.au/sites/defaul...cial_vf_86.pdf

ASD 148 article "Let's look at 'See and Avoid..." from page 4 to 6 also has plenty of sensible advice:

https://www.atsb.gov.au/sites/defaul...148_aut_91.pdf

And if that isn't enough, ASD 129 article "looking after your passengers" from page 13 to 15 includes the advice under the sub title "When on board" of: "Make sure your passengers:...Can used the intercom, if fitted, and know how to communicate if there is no intercom":

https://www.atsb.gov.au/sites/defaul...129_win_86.pdf

The positioning of the shoulder harness of the front mid passenger in the screenshot shared by mickjoebill was also an eye-opener. It isn't obvious there is any ability to lower the connection point at the top of the seat for people who are not as tall as, say, the pilot. Plenty for ATSB to consider in investigation and subsequent recommendations to improve safety.
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 01:00
  #272 (permalink)  
 
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who was doing your 412 maintenance if this was a genuine concern in house to wear a helmet for?
Not my outfit, the event occurred in Alaska and was written up in the aviation media, vibration caused by something breaking in the swashplate as I recall. We started wearing helmets in offshore, a 76 with plastic windscreens in the USA took a bird into the cockpit and all died. One of our 76 took a bird on the glass windscreen (an option) which threw it up into the rotor which then slammed the carcass down through the roof onto the passengers laps. Lunch is served. Glass windscreens weigh more, but provide a measure of protection. 206 pilot flying over Chicago at night took a bird through the windscreen which knocked him out, subsequently woke up, fortunate that his 206 was fitted with an autopilot system which kept the greasy side pointing down. If you can make a safety case for a helicopter pilot not to wear a helmet I'd love to hear it. A local neuro surgeon stated he wished helmets were mandatory for those in cars, for that's where he got all his business.
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 01:03
  #273 (permalink)  
 
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Blancolirio has put up a vid on this incident.
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 05:22
  #274 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by megan
Not my outfit, the event occurred in Alaska and was written up in the aviation media, vibration caused by something breaking in the swashplate as I recall. We started wearing helmets in offshore, a 76 with plastic windscreens in the USA took a bird into the cockpit and all died. One of our 76 took a bird on the glass windscreen (an option) which threw it up into the rotor which then slammed the carcass down through the roof onto the passengers laps. Lunch is served. Glass windscreens weigh more, but provide a measure of protection. 206 pilot flying over Chicago at night took a bird through the windscreen which knocked him out, subsequently woke up, fortunate that his 206 was fitted with an autopilot system which kept the greasy side pointing down. If you can make a safety case for a helicopter pilot not to wear a helmet I'd love to hear it. A local neuro surgeon stated he wished helmets were mandatory for those in cars, for that's where he got all his business.
Did you read the rest of my post? I said I was a proponent of wearing helmets.
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 05:46
  #275 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chute packer
Blancolirio has put up a vid on this incident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2FBWa_yTtw
It's a shame that Blancolirio references a photo of an AS350 instead of the EC130 B4 in that video.

There is a good internal EC-130B4 360* image available on PHS's website here, go to the EC130 in the main photo and click the 'Eye' symbol under it.

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Old 7th Jan 2023, 06:07
  #276 (permalink)  
 
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In the nit picking category, I wonder if the use of wrap around sunglasses has less effect on interfering with peripheral vision than a regular frame?

Some research into the subject is linked here in relation to distortion of peripheral vision due to *prescription* eyeglasses. I'm referring to the vertical rim of sunglasses which, in this case, may have blocked a few degrees of vision in the critical direction?
Do the military give specific advice on the subject?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6497825/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/au/b...ipheral-vision

Mjb
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 06:13
  #277 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SeaRenity
We’re either of these aircraft equipped with ADSB?
ADSB-Out yes, see ADSB track in the blancolirio video.

ADSB-In: not sure, most likely yes.
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 06:33
  #278 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by John Eacott
It's a shame that Blancolirio references a photo of an AS350 instead of the EC130 B4 in that video.

There is a good internal EC-130B4 360* image available on PHS's website here, go to the EC130 in the main photo and click the 'Eye' symbol under it.
Isn’t he using the AS350 to talk about how they have switched their fleet from the AS350 to EC130 less than 2 months ago?
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 09:41
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700
Isn’t he using the AS350 to talk about how they have switched their fleet from the AS350 to EC130 less than 2 months ago?
He uses a picture of the 350 to show the upright pillar in the cockpit but refers to it as a 130.

He pontificates as if he is an expert but made the same basic mistake twice - talking about 130 blindspots while referring to a picture of a 350!
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Old 7th Jan 2023, 11:31
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Originally Posted by John Eacott
It's a shame that Blancolirio references a photo of an AS350 instead of the EC130 B4 in that video...
I agree, and numerous comments in response to his video also point out this issue. Still, the thrust of what he says regarding blind spots for both helicopters probably remains reasonably valid.

Another commenter on YouTube, 'Speed Bird', also mentions the current four southern pads vs only the single one Blancolirio was aware of. But 'Speed Bird' has dug a fair bit deeper, so I will copy his message here:

"Great breakdown of events. The Google map of that area [used by Blancolirio] is from 2017, if you use Google earth and timeline it to the most recent there are 4 concrete helipads south of where the 'island' pads are located. The southern island pad is closed, but the northern one is operational, so you are spot on with the departure point of the ascending heli. However looking back through the timeline on Nearmaps (low altitude photo images) it shows both those island pads closed at the beginning of 2019. By November 2021 they are still closed and remained closed on each snapshot between those dates. The northern pad shows open again on the next snapshot on Jun 7 2022. so there was a lengthy period where those island pads were not in use and the pilots were accustomed to only looking for traffic from the 4 pads (all adjacent) that the descending heli was landing on. Also check 'QLD Globe' for time lines when the pads were closed."

Last edited by helispotter; 7th Jan 2023 at 12:03. Reason: Sort out second quote
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