Training on grass
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
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From: California
You know, there's a video on reddit showing a 300 shaking itself apart. Its the dammedest thing,...I mean its just sitting there for the longest time, until it suddenly starts to shake!
I'm sure someone will figure out a way to blame that on the R22.
I'm sure someone will figure out a way to blame that on the R22.
Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Downeast
You say you have flown an S-55....they were prone to do as did the 300....and a number of other aircraft....which has nothing to do with a Robby.
Your point is....what?
Your point is....what?
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
In the event of a real emergency autorotation and given the choice between grass and hard surface with all other factors equal, I'm going for the more predictable hard surface every time.
Imagine pulling off an awesome EOL only to be rear-ended by an 18-wheeler!
Joined: Mar 2018
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From: Central UK
99% of the world's hard surface is unprepared. The landable bits of it are mostly gravel, sand or - grass!
1% is tarmac, concrete or buildings and most of that is heavily infested with wires, poles and - people!
If you're going to have an eol then the numbers say it is vastly more likely that it will be over countryside, so surely the sensible surface to train on is - countryside. = grass, not tarmac or concrete!
Having trained, as all my countrymen do (and all those in all the countries around me do) on grass I find it really quite amusing that there are people who consider it somehow odd or hazardous. Do they really suppose they are the only ones to have noticed this? (despite never doing it themselves?) I have a vast admiration and respect for the USA but their parochialism and sometimes utterly inflexible belief in their automatic superiority can be extraordinarily odd. And irrational.
1% is tarmac, concrete or buildings and most of that is heavily infested with wires, poles and - people!
If you're going to have an eol then the numbers say it is vastly more likely that it will be over countryside, so surely the sensible surface to train on is - countryside. = grass, not tarmac or concrete!
Having trained, as all my countrymen do (and all those in all the countries around me do) on grass I find it really quite amusing that there are people who consider it somehow odd or hazardous. Do they really suppose they are the only ones to have noticed this? (despite never doing it themselves?) I have a vast admiration and respect for the USA but their parochialism and sometimes utterly inflexible belief in their automatic superiority can be extraordinarily odd. And irrational.
Joined: Sep 2018
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 888
Likes: 65
From: California
99% of the world's hard surface is unprepared. The landable bits of it are mostly gravel, sand or - grass!
1% is tarmac, concrete or buildings and most of that is heavily infested with wires, poles and - people!
If you're going to have an eol then the numbers say it is vastly more likely that it will be over countryside, so surely the sensible surface to train on is - countryside. = grass, not tarmac or concrete!
.
1% is tarmac, concrete or buildings and most of that is heavily infested with wires, poles and - people!
If you're going to have an eol then the numbers say it is vastly more likely that it will be over countryside, so surely the sensible surface to train on is - countryside. = grass, not tarmac or concrete!
.
Now, I'd be more than happy to do some practice crashing to grass. Thing is my only choices for "countryside" are either wild brush on the surrounding hillsides which (even if I could find a flat enough area) would most likely catch fire from my 22's exposed engine, or the wetland areas which (although nice and flat) would most likely envelope at least half of my aircraft as I sink into them.
There is a golf course near by though, maybe they'll let me practice to that?
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 850
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From: USA
99% of the world's hard surface is unprepared. The landable bits of it are mostly gravel, sand or - grass!
1% is tarmac, concrete or buildings and most of that is heavily infested with wires, poles and - people!
If you're going to have an eol then the numbers say it is vastly more likely that it will be over countryside, so surely the sensible surface to train on is - countryside. = grass, not tarmac or concrete!
Having trained, as all my countrymen do (and all those in all the countries around me do) on grass I find it really quite amusing that there are people who consider it somehow odd or hazardous. Do they really suppose they are the only ones to have noticed this? (despite never doing it themselves?) I have a vast admiration and respect for the USA but their parochialism and sometimes utterly inflexible belief in their automatic superiority can be extraordinarily odd. And irrational.
1% is tarmac, concrete or buildings and most of that is heavily infested with wires, poles and - people!
If you're going to have an eol then the numbers say it is vastly more likely that it will be over countryside, so surely the sensible surface to train on is - countryside. = grass, not tarmac or concrete!
Having trained, as all my countrymen do (and all those in all the countries around me do) on grass I find it really quite amusing that there are people who consider it somehow odd or hazardous. Do they really suppose they are the only ones to have noticed this? (despite never doing it themselves?) I have a vast admiration and respect for the USA but their parochialism and sometimes utterly inflexible belief in their automatic superiority can be extraordinarily odd. And irrational.
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
A huge part of flying training is building confidence in your student so they begin to believe they can actually perform whatever manoeuvre you are teaching them.
As the student progresses, you can increase the difficulty incrementally so that confidence continues to grow.
I can see how an easier surface - tarmac - might be OK for early training but building the confidence to make EOLs to grass is important too.
In the Brit Mil we were very lucky to have keen, able, well motivated and generally confident students - something you might not see so much in a civilian student. Hence all our EOLs were conducted to grass.
I believe training to grass is a far better preparation for what you might be faced with in the real world and the ability to reduce groundspeed to a minimum is more likely to lead to a successful outcome if you end up having to do an EOL onto a less forgiving surface.
As the student progresses, you can increase the difficulty incrementally so that confidence continues to grow.
I can see how an easier surface - tarmac - might be OK for early training but building the confidence to make EOLs to grass is important too.
In the Brit Mil we were very lucky to have keen, able, well motivated and generally confident students - something you might not see so much in a civilian student. Hence all our EOLs were conducted to grass.
I believe training to grass is a far better preparation for what you might be faced with in the real world and the ability to reduce groundspeed to a minimum is more likely to lead to a successful outcome if you end up having to do an EOL onto a less forgiving surface.
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: USA
Originally Posted by [email protected]
I believe training to grass is a far better preparation for what you might be faced with in the real world and the ability to reduce groundspeed to a minimum is more likely to lead to a successful outcome if you end up having to do an EOL onto a less forgiving surface.
I've found the ability to hit my spot to FAA commercial standards (+/-50ft) to be very confidence inspiring. But I don't practice EOLs to the local pub parking lot (although if it were for real that might come in handy
).Joined: May 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 18,633
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From: Downeast
My Army EOL training used both pavement and unpaved landing areas....but the standard was the same....one skid length ground slide maximum to receive a passing grade on the maneuver.
Later on in the final stages of our training we did have contests on who could slide the furtherest which made for some good fun and some soiled undies!
But then we did lots...lots....lots. and lots of EOL's and simulated tail rotor failures along with the more mundane things as we were all headed off to where we would get to do them for real with some frequency.
So...pick your poison....asphalt or sod....just avoid the mud and big rocks.
Out in No Where Texas we also had to look out for the Rattlesnakes.
Later on in the final stages of our training we did have contests on who could slide the furtherest which made for some good fun and some soiled undies!
But then we did lots...lots....lots. and lots of EOL's and simulated tail rotor failures along with the more mundane things as we were all headed off to where we would get to do them for real with some frequency.
So...pick your poison....asphalt or sod....just avoid the mud and big rocks.
Out in No Where Texas we also had to look out for the Rattlesnakes.