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Disgusting landing fees

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Disgusting landing fees

Old 11th Oct 2020, 15:28
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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To B2N2: I think that you are presuming an awful lot about the OP. I would even go as far to say that you really don't have a clue.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 15:52
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by md 600 driver View Post
Hi just arranged to book lunch at Grantley hall near Ripon for lunch tomorrow. Managed to get reservation then I was told landing fee is £150
I told them no way that’s scandalous , there’s no charge to park there in a car .

places like this want promoting as HELICOPTER NOT FRIENDLY GO ELSEWHERE
Well said MD600 if they want to rip you off you have the option of going elsewhere. During my time working with Lothian Helicopters we pitched up at many hotels for a meal and overnight stay and not once were we charged for landing, and overnight parking. We did this all over the UK, sometimes we even got things a little cheaper if the boss gave staff a joyride. One of the hotels even sent a porter out to carry our bags in, great service, that was near Warrington. At most of the hotels other guests loved seeing the helicopter parked there.

As for the crazy comment by B2N2... how much were you prepared to pay for the flight there and back ? That cost is already considered when you make the choice to go somewhere ! Just because you have an expensive helicopter, why do you have to pay expensive landing charges ? If I went shopping to my local Sainsburys in a Ferrari would I be asked to pay more for my parking space than someone who went in a Mini for example. It's all about great customer service and if they want your business or not, especially during these Covid times where pepole are crying out for customers. It just does not make sense. Maybe we should make up a list of friendly hotels/eateries and another list to show who are the rip off hotels .
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 16:55
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by helipixman View Post
Maybe we should make up a list of friendly hotels/eateries and another list to show who are the rip off hotels .
Waaaaaay ahead of you: Helipads, hotels and Others: Requests, Recommendations & Rip-offs

(1st post in 2004!)
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 18:13
  #24 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by B2N2 View Post
The entitlement is rampant.
If they provide the fielding and you dig a skid during landing I am 100% certain you will litigate for damages.
Because I show up in a snazzy helicopter and give the punters something to chat about it should be free is ludicrous.
For 150 bp though I would expect a nicely manicured helipad with markings, fire extinguishers and a golf cart if needed.
B2N2, your expectations and certainties simply don’t fit in with the way rotary aviation in UK works. The only times I’ve ever seen fire extinguishers on site is at formal events such as race meetings, where an aviation business is hired in to run the site.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a pilot trying to claim damages from a land owner from digging a skid in! There have however been cases where a pilot was prosecuted by landowners for damage caused by helicopter downwash.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 20:34
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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md600 - Grantley is used to footballers coming up from London and meeting any payment requests.
Quite amused to read some of the posts re HLS expectations in UK - windsock? Don’t make me laugh!
Glad to hear that you took your custom elsewhere
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 01:16
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Bravo73 View Post
To B2N2: I think that you are presuming an awful lot about the OP. I would even go as far to say that you really don't have a clue.
Well he’s a managing director and his current type is a Gazelle 342, a turbine helicopter.
Whats the operating cost an hour?
Purchase price?
That’s like showing up in a Ferrari and complaining about having to pay for valet parking.

Its an open forum and he got a dissenting opinion.
Thats all, we can still be friends
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 05:29
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Aah footballers, the root of all evil in the formerly-United-Kingdom
The silly public can't tell the difference between one helicopter and another, and get the whole caste system completely wrong.
If they knew it was a Gaz and what it costs on the Yugoslavian register to keep it taped together in one piece, then they would probably have sent a hat round to collect a few sheckles to help and sponsored lunch for someone clearly in need.

Last edited by Bell_ringer; 12th Oct 2020 at 08:15.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 07:47
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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I would have thought that if a hotel owner; on receiving a request for a helicopter to land, needed to get someone in to clear and mow the the landing area, put up a rope fence to keep everyone safely distant, (or police the area in person to keep guests clear), and take out an insurance policy for that one helicopter landing and subsequent take-off - then £150 sounds very reasonable.

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Old 12th Oct 2020, 08:45
  #29 (permalink)  

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Uplinker, yes then it would be reasonable....but in general, hotels don’t do that. As I wrote above, the only time preparations such as the ones you mentioned are made would be at special events when a specialist company is brought in. At a hotel? Very little chance, I regret to say.

A hotel taking out an insurance? That responsibility is put squarely on the helicopter operator. That’s why we are required to have insurance coverage for up to many millions of pounds.

I must say, comments here show how little some people know about real world helicopter operations.

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Old 12th Oct 2020, 10:14
  #30 (permalink)  
RMK
 
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MD600Driver, thanks for the note on Grantley Hall, I will avoid them no matter what type of transport I’m using on the day. Also, good to list these locations on the HCGB blacklist and the ongoing thread “Helipads & Hotels: Requests, Recommendations & Rip-offs Helipads, hotels and Others: Requests, Recommendations & Rip-offs as noted above.

B2N2, you exemplify the internet post preamble of “I don’t know anything about X, but here’s what I think about X”. You seem more of a disgruntled salary jockey with condemnation of anyone that flies privately with their family and friends.

In 15yrs of flying in the UK, I’ve never paid a hotel/restaurant/pub a landing fee when I am landing there for either breakfast, lunch, dinner or an overnight stay – no one should, it sets a bad precedent.

For the American posters that don’t understand how this works in Europe (particularly “B2N2” who thinks we should pay a few hundred pounds to land and bring them business by having dinner or booking hotel rooms):

- private flying for pleasure/recreation is far more common in Europe than US and self-fly-hire rental is easily found and available (it’s not all CPL factories; you can actually do this for fun)

- we have a large number of hotels/restaurants/pubs available to land and the vast majority are free, so long as you are eating/staying.

- the comments above regarding “facilities” are laughable; because those of us who actually do this know we’re merely instructed to land on a bit lawn or an adjacent field. Out of around 80-90 private sites I’ve landed in the UK only 1 even has a windsock – and it is situated right next to a tree rendering it useless (it’s really just for show as the hotel appreciates pilots visiting).

- approval procedure is normally just giving them a call; maybe filling out a form and possibly sending a copy of your insurance in some instances. Any mention of a landing fee is met by “no thanks, I’ll book elsewhere” to which they reply they’d welcome a visit in the future, if driving – to which I reply “you just tried to charge me £250 and you think I’m planning a future visit?
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 12:18
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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It's a similar situation over here, fortunately no footballers to ripoff and there isn't a culture of litigation nor health and safety.
Outside of licensed facilities no one charges, little more than the occasional indemnity and request to not overfly a grumpy neighbour.
One resort kindly provides a driver - they figure if you can arrive by helicopter then they should make it easy for you to spend your money.
Maybe here it is still a novelty for the landowner and their patrons.
Inevitably someone will bring their son or daughter for a look and we'll encourage them to sit in the cockpit, headset on for a family pic, though we do warn them that they may be comitting the family to flight-training and bankruptcy when little Johnnie gets bigger.

Funny how different cultures treat aviation, differently.

Perhaps you just have people that want it to be overly exclusive and convince the Robbie's to go elsewhere
I suppose it's their choice to try extract money from you and yours to decline.
It's not like their target market is fly-ins, what have they got to lose? I can understand the mentality.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 12:21
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Work had us stay overnight at the Celtic manor they charged £6 for parking the car.........says it all.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 13:13
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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In order for Grantley Hall to provide you with a helipad (it looks like a nice one they put effort into with well kept ground, concrete permitter and walking path, search google for "grantley hall helipad" and find the facebook video ... and when I look on Google Maps, is that even a waiting room / building they put in as well?), it appears they also spent time, effort and cost on planning application (Harrogate Borough Council 18/04483/FUL, "The use of land for a helipad |Grantley Hall Stephenson Bridge To Grantley Hall And West Lodge Grantley HG4 3ET", 23 consultations ....) only to have their neighbours hate them (39 public comments, 38 objections ...). So by all means, show them up for the money grubbing non-helicopter friendly people they are! How dare they not allow you to land your £300K helicopter for free! It's an outrage against your human rights !

Last edited by matthew_gbr; 12th Oct 2020 at 13:24.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 13:35
  #34 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by matthew_gbr View Post
In order for Grantley Hall to provide you with a helipad (it looks like a nice one they put effort into with well kept ground, concrete permitter and walking path, search google for "grantley hall helipad" and find the facebook video ... and when I look on Google Maps, is that even a waiting room / building they put in as well?), it appears they also spent time, effort and cost on planning application (Harrogate Borough Council 18/04483/FUL, "The use of land for a helipad |Grantley Hall Stephenson Bridge To Grantley Hall And West Lodge Grantley HG4 3ET", 23 consultations ....) only to have their neighbours hate them (39 public comments, 38 objections ...). So by all means, show them up for the money grubbing non-helicopter friendly people they are! How dare they not allow you to land your £300K helicopter for free! It's an outrage against your human rights !
I see you have a PPLA. How much would you be prepared to pay at a minor airfield?
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 13:45
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque View Post
I see you have a PPLA. How much would you be prepared to pay at a minor airfield?
That's disingenuous and not relevant. The genuine and relevant question is: with my PPLA, how much would I be prepared to pay for a landing fee at a minor airfield, or a landing fee at the grass strip at the Hall? For a minor airfield, which is in the business of aviation and has a higher frequency of flights, I would expect them to price carefully: landing fees not too high so as to put off people, and not too low so as to go out of business. £150 would be too high. If the Hall had it's own grass landing strip, so I could fly in and park for lunch, I'd consider £150 a not unexpected price for the nature and quality of the establishment. In the totality of the experience, I'd think £150 not great (don't we all want lower prices!) but reasonable and far under the nature of the circumstances.

If I go to the Lanesborough for lunch, whether with my Fiesta, Beemer or Rolls, I choose either the Lansborough's valet parking (likely to be high), or the parking garage down the street (much lower). I understand why for their facilities and other reasons, the valet parking fee is high. I don't bleat blue murder about it because I kind of expect that it goes with the territory. I don't expect to be given free valet parking. It's a free market and basic economics ...
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 14:04
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rattle View Post
I was booked for an aerial filming mission around South Wales and one of the shots we were asked to get was of the Celtic Manor Hotel. I knew they had a pad so phoned ahead to see if we could book breakfast. They wanted a ridiculous landing fee so we skipped breakfast - and managed to forget to get a shot of the hotel for the programme going out on Channel 4....
Celtic Manor has changed its policy and doesn’t charge for guests (I landed and stayed overnight a couple of weeks ago). Not sure if its definition of ‘guest’ distinguishes between residents and visiting diners.

Last edited by toptobottom; 12th Oct 2020 at 14:30.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 14:17
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by RMK View Post
For the American posters that don’t understand how this works in Europe (particularly “B2N2” who thinks we should pay a few hundred pounds to land and bring them business by having dinner or booking hotel rooms):

- private flying for pleasure/recreation is far more common in Europe than US and self-fly-hire rental is easily found and available (it’s not all CPL factories; you can actually do this for fun)
This is not entirely untrue for the US. For example, there are three folks checked out by the school I lease back to who SFH my R44 quite regularly. However I can't speak to how the US and EU compare in this respect overall. Certainly there's plenty of SFH fixed wing op's, not 100% sure where the US industry stands on this for rotary wing.

- we have a large number of hotels/restaurants/pubs available to land and the vast majority are free, so long as you are eating/staying.
That certainly is true, at least in the northeast. I really do wish there were more commercial properties to land at. Off the top of my head I can think of only a half dozen or so across ME/NH/VT. I'm probably missing a few inns here or there.

- the comments above regarding “facilities” are laughable; because those of us who actually do this know we’re merely instructed to land on a bit lawn or an adjacent field. Out of around 80-90 private sites I’ve landed in the UK only 1 even has a windsock – and it is situated right next to a tree rendering it useless (it’s really just for show as the hotel appreciates pilots visiting).
The US experience is identical in this respect.

- approval procedure is normally just giving them a call; maybe filling out a form and possibly sending a copy of your insurance in some instances. Any mention of a landing fee is met by “no thanks, I’ll book elsewhere” to which they reply they’d welcome a visit in the future, if driving – to which I reply “you just tried to charge me £250 and you think I’m planning a future visit?
Again, the US experience is identical in this respect. Never heard of a landing fee at an off-airport facility in the US, but sometimes unworkable insurance requirements.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 14:26
  #38 (permalink)  

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Matthew gbr,
My question was not at all meant to be disingenuous. It was actually a valid and sincere question.
But as far as what is relevant to the subject, valet parking of a car (irrespective of how much the car is worth) has absolutely nothing to do with landing a helicopter.
The point here is that a landing fee (or any other type of charge) can be expected in most circumstances. The discussion is whether or not a landing charge is reasonable for the level of service provided. As I said before, I've encountered a landing charge on a school field that was five times as much as this hotel wanted. Totally unreasonable in the view of most folk, I suspect.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 14:39
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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150 coins is pretty steep if you'd ask me.
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Old 12th Oct 2020, 14:43
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Shy, how can you quantify what is, ooh I'll risk saying it - reasonable - if you don't know what (if?) costs they incurred?
Looking at the planning application summary, they seem to have had a healthy number of consulting organisations (roads, environment, airspace, yada yada) to support the application.
I doubt it was a zero-cost/zero-effort process, and from the pics, they have at least spent a little bit of wedge on actual facilities.
I don't know market conditions in the area, but what is globally accepted, is anyone that calls themselves a consultant in a specialist area does not come cheap.
All this for what is quite an upmarket location where you're in for 35+ squid for a cocktail and a chicken skewer, so it comes with the territory, I suppose.


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