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Disgusting landing fees

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Disgusting landing fees

Old 10th Oct 2020, 19:00
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Disgusting landing fees

Hi just arranged to book lunch at Grantley hall near Ripon for lunch tomorrow. Managed to get reservation then I was told landing fee is £150
I told them no way that’s scandalous , there’s no charge to park there in a car .

places like this want promoting as HELICOPTER NOT FRIENDLY GO ELSEWHERE
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 19:12
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Originally Posted by md 600 driver View Post
Hi just arranged to book lunch at Grantley hall near Ripon for lunch tomorrow. Managed to get reservation then I was told landing fee is £150
I told them no way that’s scandalous , there’s no charge to park there in a car .

places like this want promoting as HELICOPTER NOT FRIENDLY GO ELSEWHERE
Over the years an airport I (and the occasional HEMS chopper) used to frequent, one by one got rid of the lights that pointed at the helispot. Then one day they decided to repave the ramp, but didn't repaint said helispot. Finally one night I noticed some temporary barriers set up just about where that old helispot used to be (making the approach ridiculously steep) and I took the hint,...they don't want helicopters at that airport anymore.

,...and that's not the only airport in recent years that has become unfriendly to us. Seems to be a growing trend.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 19:37
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Originally Posted by md 600 driver View Post
Hi just arranged to book lunch at Grantley hall near Ripon for lunch tomorrow. Managed to get reservation then I was told landing fee is £150
I told them no way that’s scandalous , there’s no charge to park there in a car .

places like this want promoting as HELICOPTER NOT FRIENDLY GO ELSEWHERE
Seeing as they only just reopened in August and are again under the newer Covid restrictions since September 22nd one would think it prudent to welcome any business rather than employing rip of tactics additional the presence of a helicopter arriving and leaving would possibly help with making people aware the place is open for business
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 20:01
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Are there any costs associated with providing a rotary landing (e.g. AIP) vs. providing a car park. Not defending them, but would be curious to know what the economcis are. If there are no differences, then I agree, landing fees are ridiculous.
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 23:00
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I was booked for an aerial filming mission around South Wales and one of the shots we were asked to get was of the Celtic Manor Hotel. I knew they had a pad so phoned ahead to see if we could book breakfast. They wanted a ridiculous landing fee so we skipped breakfast - and managed to forget to get a shot of the hotel for the programme going out on Channel 4....
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Old 10th Oct 2020, 23:38
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Originally Posted by rattle View Post
I was booked for an aerial filming mission around South Wales and one of the shots we were asked to get was of the Celtic Manor Hotel. I knew they had a pad so phoned ahead to see if we could book breakfast. They wanted a ridiculous landing fee so we skipped breakfast - and managed to forget to get a shot of the hotel for the programme going out on Channel 4....
Yet another example of corporate rules and a GM’s lack of common sense, a missed opportunity that costs nothing yet could be an excellent promotion of their business..... I didn’t learn much at school but did leave with common sense...
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 02:54
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Originally Posted by md 600 driver View Post
Hi just arranged to book lunch at Grantley hall near Ripon for lunch tomorrow. Managed to get reservation then I was told landing fee is £150
I told them no way that’s scandalous , there’s no charge to park there in a car .

places like this want promoting as HELICOPTER NOT FRIENDLY GO ELSEWHERE
How much you planned on paying for the helicopter flight there and back?

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Old 11th Oct 2020, 08:29
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So in the UK you need landowners permission to avoid any issues with trespassing etc. Why not ring up, book lunch and ask them if parking is free? When they say yes - there's your permission to park your helicopter. 👍
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 08:38
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If a landowner is in the business of providing helicopter landing services (by charging a fee, for example), then they have a higher duty of care towards you (than they may realise). The article here suggests that, in a negligence case, the "Duty required" element would probably be satisfied if landing fees are charged. It doesn't address your gripe, though, which is more to do with the high level of fees or the fact that they aren't subsidised by the room charges. I suspect they have found that some charter customers have been happy to pay the fee, especially if it is not itemised in the overall cost.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 09:27
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I guess you have to decide if paying a fee and being able to land is better or worse than not having any option at all.
Anywhere else that provides helistop facilities is going to be billing you anyway.
The question is whether or not a fee that equates to about an hour of fuel is fair or not.
They may well have a loading on their liability policy for your convenience.
Parking a helicopter is not the same as parking a volvo, different risk, different requirements for parking.

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Old 11th Oct 2020, 09:36
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Originally Posted by B2N2 View Post
How much you planned on paying for the helicopter flight there and back?
i am not sure I understand your question
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 09:56
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This thread would benefit from a helipad owner who can articulate any specific time, costs and efforts that are required, e.g. addtiional ground work, insurance, licenses etc. It's entirely up to the owner to decide whether to subsidise those costs across the business or relatively direct charge them through landing fees. They might find that usage is inelastic to fees, or if it is elastic, then the loss of custom due to fees has no or negible business impact. Perhaps it just keeps away people who are penny pinchers and/or come with a sense of entitlement and/or don't understand that a business needs revenue to pay its way and its people. I love going to places where I pay a little bit more for a better class of crowd ...
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 10:02
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Originally Posted by matthew_gbr View Post
This thread would benefit from a helipad owner who can articulate any specific time, costs and efforts that are required, e.g. addtiional ground work, insurance, licenses etc. It's entirely up to the owner to decide whether to subsidise those costs across the business or relatively direct charge them through landing fees. They might find that usage is inelastic to fees, or if it is elastic, then the loss of custom due to fees has no or negible business impact. Perhaps it just keeps away people who are penny pinchers and/or come with a sense of entitlement and/or don't understand that a business needs revenue to pay its way and its people. I love going to places where I pay a little bit more for a better class of crowd ...
i do understand that a business needs to make profit , a helipad/ heliport with the proper safety equiptment ,staff ,insurance radio ,security ,licence ect is one thing.

But a area set aside at a hotel for helicopters to land at with no security I think £150 is out of the question
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 10:13
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How do you know: (1) how many rotaries arrive each year; (2) what it cost them originally to make the ground solid, put fencing around, do the H, put up a windsock, etc ... might have been £10-20K of work; (3) what then costs them each year to maintain that, and to pay for insurance ... maybe it's £2K per year, or more?; (4) when for each landing, they have to prepare and keep paperwork, send staff to go and make sure people are not outside in the area of the helipad? etc. I appreciate you venting your frustration, but lets get some facts next and then decide ... £2K landing fee, yes that would be outrageous .... £30 landing fee, probably not covering yearly/total costs ... £150, hard to tell ...
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 11:01
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I’ve been in the UK corporate heli sector for almost twenty years and come across the full range of landing permission costs, some are free, on a please help yourself basis. One kind owner has even sent me free coffee. Many of the hotels I’ve used in the UK actually do nothing to the ground to show that it’s a designated landing site and unless asked, provide nothing other than someone to collect the fee. Some do have a marked H but some just tell you where they want you to land. The most expensive rip off price I’ve encountered was £750 to land on a school playing field. Their “extra work” consisted of putting down a single dinner plate to mark the landing spot (so the groundsman knew where to look for holes). The school was closed, no staff were on site. To arrange the landing I had to deal with a lady whose official title was “Business generation manager”. Say no more. Obviously, I had to advise the leading passenger of the outrageous cost in advance, which I was surprised to hear was accepted.

One thing that many private pilots fail to do is to gain a written permission from the CAA to land where required at some sites (which obviously costs the operator a hefty fee and the application takes time to process in an office somewhere at Gatwick). Many hotels, by their very nature/location are in what the CAA consider to be a congested area. Gaining permission to breach the 1,000 ft rule prevents the possibility of a conviction for illegal low flying. From personal experience, any complaint to the CAA is likely to be investigated! A complaint against me was made by an ex military pilot who should have known better (he obviously didn’t understand the 500 foot rule doesn’t apply if you are landing or departing, although the 1,000 ft rule does) and although it was investigated it resulted in no action taken because my flight was 100% legal.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 11:48
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Haven't heard of this issue in the US. Have yet to experience a private landing fee at restaurants, hotels and golf courses, etc. But we do suffer from a related issue, which is that certain venues will require two or even four times the amount of liability insurance that you would normally have. These are typically large venues like stadiums or casinos, but sometimes also town fairs and the like. So you've got to go negotiate with your underwriter for a temporary increase. Most of the time not worth the effort or the expense. Sometimes they even ask to be put on the policy by name.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 12:23
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Interesting to read they offer a valet service for cars free of charge but when you eat and drink 12.5% will be added to the bill.
This pilot was possibly booking for 4 poeple and would be arriving in one of his special eyecatching helicopters adding a little out of the ordinary for the hotel guests to observe and chat about.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 14:05
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Originally Posted by md 600 driver View Post
i am not sure I understand your question
You are more then willing to pay for the cost of taking a helicopter for your “$100 hamburger” but you balk at the landing fee.

Have you asked yourself what the requirements and liabilities are for having a helicopter landing area?
You think those costs shouldn’t be passed on to you somehow?

Simple math:
Permitting, licensing, insurance, maintenance pick a number.
1500/year. You accommodate an average of 10 landings/year > 150/landing please.

Or should they just up the price for lunch by 50 for everyone so could can bring a helicopter in for free?


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Old 11th Oct 2020, 14:27
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Originally Posted by B2N2 View Post
You are more then willing to pay for the cost of taking a helicopter for your “$100 hamburger” but you balk at the landing fee.

Have you asked yourself what the requirements and liabilities are for having a helicopter landing area?
You think those costs shouldn’t be passed on to you somehow?

Simple math:
Permitting, licensing, insurance, maintenance pick a number.
1500/year. You accommodate an average of 10 landings/year > 150/landing please.

Or should they just up the price for lunch by 50 for everyone so could can bring a helicopter in for free?
I think you're missing some context; in the UK none of that is necessarily required and it's not unusual to just ring a place and ask if they have an open field nearby to land at so you can pop by for lunch or stay overnight. The uneven ground comes for free and there shouldn't be any associated costs for the business with having the odd helicopter stop in every now and then. By charging a landing fee they are saying 'we want this much extra money from you because you're coming by helicopter and we want more of your money' - you're not paying for any specialised staff or additional facilities that a wouldn't be necessary had you come by car. I've been to places before that simply put a tenner on the bill for the shortly endured noise for the diners (we were landing mighty close to the tables to be fair), but I agree with the OP that £150 is cheeky at best.
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Old 11th Oct 2020, 14:59
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The entitlement is rampant.
If they provide the fielding and you dig a skid during landing I am 100% certain you will litigate for damages.
Because I show up in a snazzy helicopter and give the punters something to chat about it should be free is ludicrous.
For 150 bp though I would expect a nicely manicured helipad with markings, fire extinguishers and a golf cart if needed.

My earlier point.
A R22 self fly hire rate is what 250-275/hr?
Thats 500-600 for the trip.
Nobody bats an eye at that amount.
Now this wasn’t a R22 was it?
Something bigger, maybe a turbine?
How much are those an hour?
You’re perfectly willing to pay that for what is essentially an ego trip to lunch yet you balk at the landing fee?

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