Robinson service and sense of responsibility - or lack of it
If that is the case, Robinson should make an amendment to the POH or Safety Notice or such like.
And its quiet scary you mention you needed 3" more power than normal, due to contaminated blades we can call them. That is a real safety issue, its not that the R22 is overpowered to start with ...
And its quiet scary you mention you needed 3" more power than normal, due to contaminated blades we can call them. That is a real safety issue, its not that the R22 is overpowered to start with ...
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The blades are being shipped to them, they pay for the repair .. as mentioned in my initial posting, first they where sorry and would pay for a local repair in Denmark, but when they got the quote they backtracked plus suddenly no guarantee if they didn't do it themselves ...
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It appears the green undercoat has good adhesion .... looks like a vinyl-wash primer which is excellent over aluminum .... then the whole blade was painted white with the black and yellow over top of the white.
The bond failed between the primer and the white .... and I agree with what others have said .... the paint is most likely waterborne because of California regulations.
They are still sorting out water based paints in the automobile industry and it is the last thing I would use on a rotor blade .... not only that it has been applied way too thick .
IMRON Polyurethane is still the best aircraft paint , true plastic coating , flexible and glossy and shrugs off bugs better than anything else. A sufficient coat of white for coverage and gloss .... paint is heavy .... pick up a quart and consider how much weight it adds to a blade .... so use minimum when possible .... and if erosion protection is desired use extra on the black leading edge only.
I wish I was in Denmark , I would paint them for you
The bond failed between the primer and the white .... and I agree with what others have said .... the paint is most likely waterborne because of California regulations.
They are still sorting out water based paints in the automobile industry and it is the last thing I would use on a rotor blade .... not only that it has been applied way too thick .
IMRON Polyurethane is still the best aircraft paint , true plastic coating , flexible and glossy and shrugs off bugs better than anything else. A sufficient coat of white for coverage and gloss .... paint is heavy .... pick up a quart and consider how much weight it adds to a blade .... so use minimum when possible .... and if erosion protection is desired use extra on the black leading edge only.
I wish I was in Denmark , I would paint them for you
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As a prior owner of two 44's I was fortunate in avoiding the myriad of MRB issues and associated expense. Given all of the ongoing problems and poor customer service, it's difficult to justify continued support of the brand.
As a prior owner of two 44's I was fortunate in avoiding the myriad of MRB issues and associated expense. Given all of the ongoing problems and poor customer service, it's difficult to justify continued support of the brand.
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Don't let the emotional baggage of pre-SFAR R22 and R44 operations cloud your judgement of a modern R44 (or even a modern R22). If you've never flown one go blow a few hundred bucks, get your SFAR 73 sign-off, and put an hour on one. You might be surprised, and I mean that in a good way!
That's actually a pretty narrow view of the subject. The R44 is the only 4 place machine that can operate in the $250-$300/hr range (wholesale). This makes it unique in the industry and marketplace. Its creation opened up the market substantially for all kinds of customers that would never have been previously able to afford helicopter operations. This goes well beyond training and private business/pleasure use. It also includes tours from 6 to 60 minutes, photography, survey, ENG, public safety, etc.. You name it, the R44 can often do it as well and at half the cost of the least expensive turbine powered ship. The R44 lags only the Jetranger in it's popularity, and probably only because the Jetranger has been around longer. Leaving emotion aside, the reasons for this are completely obvious, and the efficiency and utility of the machine undeniable. The only substantially negative thing about the R44 is that, as a lightweight, two-bladed teetering rotor head, low main rotor inertia design, it has, also undeniably, less safety margin with respect to turbulence and autorotation performance. Since people were apparently too stupid to appreciate these things, its appreciation was mandated by SFAR 73. Since SFAR 73 its safety record in the US has become no worse than many other helicopters (although it remains abysmal in certain other countries, which speaks to how those countries approach rotary wing aviation, not the design). Its ubiquity in the marketplace is what causes it to be in the news for accidents more often than other helicopters, not its design or performance.
Don't let the emotional baggage of pre-SFAR R22 and R44 operations cloud your judgement of a modern R44 (or even a modern R22). If you've never flown one go blow a few hundred bucks, get your SFAR 73 sign-off, and put an hour on one. You might be surprised, and I mean that in a good way!
Don't let the emotional baggage of pre-SFAR R22 and R44 operations cloud your judgement of a modern R44 (or even a modern R22). If you've never flown one go blow a few hundred bucks, get your SFAR 73 sign-off, and put an hour on one. You might be surprised, and I mean that in a good way!
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
You would think that a company capable of producing a product which sits in a unique position in the market would be smart enough not to p*ss off it's customers by producing a sub-standard paint job on the blades which is clearly not fit for purpose.
There is also the fact that Robinson has an effective monopoly on the low end of the market. Until we see a putative Cabri G4 or the like, that keeps hourly operating costs within shouting distance of the R44, it's going to stay that way. IMHO, anything over $375/hr is a non-starter and you might as well go turbine if your mission won't cause issues with turbine cycles.
Don't let the emotional baggage of pre-SFAR R22 and R44 operations cloud your judgement of a modern R44 (or even a modern R22). If you've never flown one go blow a few hundred bucks, get your SFAR 73 sign-off, and put an hour on one. You might be surprised, and I mean that in a good way!
Robbie have never managed to master rotor blades, there has been one iteration after the next, each with a new problem as they have tried, and failed, after decades, to produce a safe and reliable component.
I am not disputing that it isn't more challenging to stretch tinfoil over balsa wood
, but they should by now have had enough practice.Their clientele must be less discerning or are just happy with the cost compromise.
I am grateful that they exist, as others have said, they made the entry to civilian pilots much more accessible. My last hour in one was 2015, what a glorious day it was to be rid of that contraption.
In fact, if money were no object there would be one in my garage,...right in between my Lamborghini and Bell 222
Not all of us were forced to fly Robby. In my early days of renting I also had the S300 and Enstrom to chose from in my area, but I loved flying the R22, so I stuck with the little guy.
In fact, if money were no object there would be one in my garage,...right in between my Lamborghini and Bell 222
In fact, if money were no object there would be one in my garage,...right in between my Lamborghini and Bell 222
If money were less of a problem, I’d have an R44.
If money were no object there would be a H500D between my Ferrari and my AW189.
Has anyone had similar problems with other manufacturers? And if so how did they respond to concerns raised, I’m sure every owner/operator has had some bad experiences.
Ah, but would you still buy that 500 if they told you, you had to keep it out of the rain for the first six months?
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An issue with a R44 that Robinson don’t want to know about. I’ve lost 3 friends in those things in 3 separate accidents. That company is one of denial and blame. Haven’t flown one now for over 10 years, would not get in one again.
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The R22 and R44 are probably the most studied helicopter designs ever. It would seem unlikely there is something unknown about them at this point. With all due respect to your friends, certain countries outside the US, in particular NZ and Brasil, are dramatic statistical outliers compared to the US for Robinson accidents. Since the designs are the same worldwide, this can only speak to how they are trained, flown and maintained in those countries.
