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IR 135 / 355

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IR 135 / 355

Old 7th Feb 2020, 23:42
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IR 135 / 355

Hi

New on here.

Looking to do my IR and wondering peoples thoughts on the 135 vs the 355 and whatís the more useful rating to have.

Low hours, 500 currently

From what I read on here the 135 will be the slightly easier aircraft to do it in.( nothing easy about an IR I know )

But with 500ish hours the odds of landing a job in a 135 is next none?

Slim in a 355 too but at least a little more of a chance as there seems more jobs out there.

Offshore it wonít matter? Although 135 may favour that due to glass cockpit experience?

Does anyone have any advice? Any comments welcome.

Cheers

J
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 05:37
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Steam driven instruments in a AS355 would help in the scan for IFR, but in reality a glass cockpit as a co-pilot would more than likely be your path off shore or a co pilot on a H145...So H135.

Also don't discount a AW109 , they are a great machine
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Old 8th Feb 2020, 20:14
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Originally Posted by ersa View Post
Steam driven instruments in a AS355 would help in the scan for IFR, but in reality a glass cockpit as a co-pilot would more than likely be your path off shore or a co pilot on a H145...So H135.

Also don't discount a AW109 , they are a great machine
Thanks for your reply. I would love to do it in a 109 but Iím afraid that is out of my reach.
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Old 9th Feb 2020, 17:48
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An IR is quickly done and money easily spent so I would do some research what type would give you the best change getting a job.
Maybe go see some companies, ask for jobs and say you'll have the required type in a month. It would be a waste of money doing it on 1 type and then have to invest in another typerating to get a job.
I agree, don't rule out the AW109. It might be a bit more expensive but if the chance to get a job is better than it's worth to invest in it.
500hrs. not impossible to get some ok-ish starting job. Payment might be a bit low the first 1-2 years but then you'll have more hours and can start climbing up....
Research, visit, make a plan and get lucky....
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 15:38
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A friend just started a job as copilot in the H135, he targeted the aircraft of his potential future, and paid for his own instrument rating in the H135 as a low time pilot.
That IR rating in that H135 got him the job - his NW Europe employers chased him following their targeted phone calls to where he took the instrument rating.
Think wisely, future proof yourself.
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Old 11th Feb 2020, 08:26
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Originally Posted by AK355 View Post
A friend just started a job as copilot in the H135, he targeted the aircraft of his potential future, and paid for his own instrument rating in the H135 as a low time pilot.
That IR rating in that H135 got him the job - his NW Europe employers chased him following their targeted phone calls to where he took the instrument rating.
Think wisely, future proof yourself.
Sounds like BHS in Germany.
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Old 11th Feb 2020, 15:17
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Originally Posted by Ovc000 View Post
An IR is quickly done and money easily spent so I would do some research what type would give you the best change getting a job.
Maybe go see some companies, ask for jobs and say you'll have the required type in a month. It would be a waste of money doing it on 1 type and then have to invest in another typerating to get a job.
I agree, don't rule out the AW109. It might be a bit more expensive but if the chance to get a job is better than it's worth to invest in it.
500hrs. not impossible to get some ok-ish starting job. Payment might be a bit low the first 1-2 years but then you'll have more hours and can start climbing up....
Research, visit, make a plan and get lucky....
definitely agreed
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Old 22nd Feb 2020, 20:04
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IR - simulator fidelity

One thing also to consider is the simulator. The fidelity of the AW109 FTD in the UK is poor - no motion and there is a horrible step between the low and forward flight envelopes (although to be fair you are entirely in the forward flight envelope for the IR).

The EC135 is a full motion FTD3 (and an exact match to the aircraft). Having flown both the AW109 and EC135 IFR, there is also no contest - the EC135 handling qualities are far superior. The AW109 has some complex cross coupling effects between collective and roll which are only just suppressed by the AFCS. I don't know what the cost split is though. The job prospects are better for EC135 as you are training with a company that employs co-pilots - it's a 50 hr job interview.

Also remember there is a Single Engine IR on offer in the UK. I now a few co-pilots who have been recently employed on employed on twins having a SE IR.
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Old 23rd Feb 2020, 18:12
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Are there disadvantages to a single-engine IR course - particularly if no (UK) training providers can supply the training on the type one actually requires?
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Old 23rd Feb 2020, 18:24
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You only have to do the "first" IR once - assuming you pass of course (ie with an IRE). Converting to a twin IR Vs just changing type is not really different. Say you were going to try for a job offshore, I'm not sure it makes much different if your IR is a SE on a Bell 206 or a ME on an AS355 - the conversion from either to say an S92 is not much different
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Old 23rd Feb 2020, 19:42
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Originally Posted by gipsymagpie View Post
I'm not sure it makes much different if your IR is a SE on a Bell 206 or a ME on an AS355 -
The difference might be that the requirements are ME IR and if you have a SE IR your resume might end up in the bin......
Going from SE to ME IR on your own costs might end up being more expensive than doing the ME IR.....
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Old 23rd Feb 2020, 20:02
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I know at least 5 or 6 guys who have been recruited with the single IR. It shows you know the regs. Literally the conversion to a twin IR comes as part of the add type IR.
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 18:17
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Thanks for the replies guys. So how come everyone (excepting those who are looking for a type-rating on 355/135/109) doesn’t do the SE IR, it’s a load cheaper?
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Old 25th Feb 2020, 18:38
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Originally Posted by feathering tickles View Post
Thanks for the replies guys. So how come everyone (excepting those who are looking for a type-rating on 355/135/109) doesnít do the SE IR, itís a load cheaper?
I would think because of 2 reasons:
1st, it is cheaper yes (about 29) but if you then still need a twin rating because the new company only will hire you with a twin rating, you have to pay another 10k (correct me if I'm wrong, 2 years ago) so total still total 39k.
you can get a ME IR for 39k. Doing the SE route + then the ME rating will give you an extra 206 rating for the same price. Downside is less ME hours. But 2 or 25 hrs probably won't make a big difference.

2nd if you aim to go offshore but might accept 1-2 years onshore, then lots of 355/135/109 jobs and that will give you those hard to get ME hours..
There are also 206 jobs but that's still SE hours and if an offshore company sees 2 identical resumes, 1 with 200hrs SE 206 and 1 with 200hrs ME 355, then most likely the 355 guy gets the job. Having said that, sometimes it's more important who you know than what's in your logbook.

I would look at jobs you are aiming for, look at the requirements and maybe even contact them if they would hire you with a SE IR.
It's a casino out there :-). place your bets....

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Old 25th Feb 2020, 20:27
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Thanks for your valid points OVC.

Sounds like SE IR is a good choice for some. Only Vantage offering it?
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