Hill Helicopters HX50
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
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From: EGDC
They could put a diffuser on the upward facing exhaust which would alleviate some of the problems - it works with military helicopters trying to reduce their IR signature.
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 102
Likes: 87
From: USA
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Notice the flame intensity is much lower when he is trying to show the non-traditional compared to the steel/titanium options - deliberate misdirection?
It might meet the certification process (just) but which you you want protecting your very vulnerable composite structures?
Remember the S92 MRGB 'passed' the FAA certification process............before one failed spectacularly.
It might meet the certification process (just) but which you you want protecting your very vulnerable composite structures?
Remember the S92 MRGB 'passed' the FAA certification process............before one failed spectacularly.
Joined: Oct 2006
Aviation Qualifications: A&P
Posts: 1,348
Likes: 271
From: USA
The use of high temp composites/paints has been used for engine fire protection for years on a number of aircraft. But the intent of those firewalls and “curtains” is to only prevent the fire spread for a specific time and not fully contain it. However, even on the certified side any configuration, metal or composite, has its limitations has seen in the FL EMS EC135 inflight fire in 2023.
Regardless, as to the effects of the exhaust gases on the airframe, with the use of exhaust ejectors and deflectors I don’t see an issue with developing a suitable solution to protect the airframe. And its good to see he still is following the certification guidance which is one of principal reasons a number of people have bought production slots.
Regardless, as to the effects of the exhaust gases on the airframe, with the use of exhaust ejectors and deflectors I don’t see an issue with developing a suitable solution to protect the airframe. And its good to see he still is following the certification guidance which is one of principal reasons a number of people have bought production slots.
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
Crab. I'm a big supporter but isn't this a bit mean spirited. What you're essentially saying is that a major helicopter manufacturer has passed certification procedures in the past and still had problems. Hardly news.
As far as the flame intensity goes, why wouldn't you show the same conditions for each option unless the 'new' options aren't currently up to the job? Too much of an admission that he might have to accept a non-ground-breaking option that is known to work (ie steel or titanium firewalls).?
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 102
Likes: 87
From: USA
QED. IMHO Dr. Hill is a 'big boy' he just doesn't have that many employees yet, and for all I know maybe never will. I think the sit down would be good for everybody.
I personally think anyone buying the HX (not the HC) or any new model before it has five years operational track record is nuts. Think Leicester AW169 again. But that (by a very narrow quirk of fate) is not my business either.
I personally think anyone buying the HX (not the HC) or any new model before it has five years operational track record is nuts. Think Leicester AW169 again. But that (by a very narrow quirk of fate) is not my business either.
Last edited by Wide Mouth Frog; 8th February 2025 at 15:58.
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 1,814
From: EGDC
WMF - I don't feel the need for a sit down with Dr Hill and I have said several times that I will be happy if he succeeds in delivering what he promises - I just don't think he can manage the price/performance point he wants and certainly not inside his originally promised timescale. I wouldn't be placing an order even if I did have the money.
Yes, I will always applaud new innovations and inventions - but only if they work and are at least as safe as what they replace.
I was flying AW 139 when the Leicester crash happened and there was suddenly a lot of concentrated engineering energy expended to make sure it wasn't an inherent manufacturing fault - I'd be interested to hear your tale of narrow quirk of fate regarding that incident.
Yes, I will always applaud new innovations and inventions - but only if they work and are at least as safe as what they replace.
I was flying AW 139 when the Leicester crash happened and there was suddenly a lot of concentrated engineering energy expended to make sure it wasn't an inherent manufacturing fault - I'd be interested to hear your tale of narrow quirk of fate regarding that incident.
Joined: Oct 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 7,373
Likes: 931
From: Den Haag
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 240
Likes: 50
From: San Diego, CA
Good. He's recently uploaded short videos on incremental progress and I would hope they accomplish something much more substantial before the next livestream. Maybe this means they plan to have some part of the engine working? Not the whole thing I'm sure though, it sounds like they're still too early for that.
Joined: Dec 2017
Aviation Qualifications: SLF
Posts: 977
Likes: 706
From: Yakima
Maybe this means they plan to have some part of the engine working? Not the whole thing I'm sure though, it sounds like they're still too early for that.
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 139
Likes: 79
From: EGBO
The igniters maybe. I too observed the reduced intensity of the 'test' flame on the firewall material and wondered who they were trying to fool. So the plan is to have a running turbine by the end of this year? What are the long lead items? Housing castings would seem to be one, so I wonder how that is going; maybe Dr. Hill can elucidate.
Joined: Jun 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 1,318
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From: Brantisvogan
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Which will come first, that or Christmas?
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 446
Likes: 100
From: South East Asia
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Maybe they'll delay the next update to 1st April.............................
The expression was: "let them do their work and keep sliding money below the door"
We all know he is bitting more than he can chew
We all know (me included) that the vertical integration has been pushed too far
We all know that the schedule will slip big time, and sizable chalenges are yet to come.
if after all that, you as a stakeholder, if you still think that there is a chance for your aircraft to come out,
then best you can do is reduce the pressure on the reporting effort.
I am not a stakeholder and hardly a believer but enjoy seeing the effort unfold, for good or bad.
Joined: Apr 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 10,959
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From: EGDC
A very good friend of mine started out as a boat building apprentice over 50 years ago and now runs (with his son) a very successful composite materials company.
They had to innovate, invest, take risks, explore new concepts and materials and now have three locations to work from employing the thick end of 100 people.
The big difference is that while they were doing this, they were actually producing things for customers to have in their hands and use.
They had to innovate, invest, take risks, explore new concepts and materials and now have three locations to work from employing the thick end of 100 people.
The big difference is that while they were doing this, they were actually producing things for customers to have in their hands and use.
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 102
Likes: 87
From: USA
I really don't understand you crab, there are so many contradictions. You've been at the peak of your profession, through every selection mechanism known to man, you respect entrepreneurship, and you've experienced the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Yet something about this venture has got under your skin. I suspect it's something to do with money giving access to your world, which you believe should be restricted. I may be completely wrong, but I think it would help you to explore why this triggers you.